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Rhino1

Let’s not revert to overpaid journey man!!!

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JF - for once we agree, an experienced journeyman maybe what the youngsters need, not 5 or 6 , and it’s finding one , its not that easy.

 

 

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3 hours ago, ricardo said:

Well I disagree. In view of the disasterous injury list, a free agent central defender on a short term contract needs to be a serious consideration. 

That would be a serious option if we could sign another overseas player but we're restricted to 'homegrown' only, and that makes the options severely limited unless Johan Djourou has been keeping himself in good shape since he parted ways with his last club 9 months ago. 

Just to give you a feel for how limited our options are.... other than him its probably James Collins who played for Ipswich last season, or Marc Wilson who played for Bolton last season. Both have experience at this level but both are ageing and realistically are lower Championship level. 

All three players have had injury problems.

Had we had space for another foreign player there are a few European International players under 30.... 

 

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3 hours ago, ricardo said:

Well I disagree. In view of the disasterous injury list, a free agent central defender on a short term contract needs to be a serious consideration. 

 

1 hour ago, kirku said:

Hypothetically, a free agent makes sense. But in reality? Are there any even remotely Prem standard CBs available on a free? (I've got no idea, but it sounds extremely unlikely).

As an aside, this must be the worst injury crisis since I can remember. 

We haven't got any non-homegrown spaces left so it would have to be a homegrown, free agent centre back. Anyone fitting this description as late as October wouldn't be Premier League quality, as they'd have been snapped up in the summer.

We had the discussion a few weeks ago and probably the best option is Johan Djourou, but he's been without a club since January I believe and would need time to get up to speed (as would any free agent). 

Is Djourou (or the homegrown, free agent centre back of anyone's choosing) a better option than playing someone slightly out of position or promoting someone from the Under 23s? I genuinely don't know. It's an avenue worth exploring because needs must, but I'm not totally convinced.

EDIT: TVB has just beaten me to it. Great minds and all that...

 

2 hours ago, Yellowhammer said:

Remember trevor hockey being bought in on loan to help us out also Bobby bell 

Sean raggett recall would at least give us a centre half 

By the time we can recall Raggett we'll have Zimmermann fit and the transfer window open, so I'm sure there would be many better options available.

Edited by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

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23 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I agree Purple that with the decision taken by the owners this is how we have to do it (although I still think we could have found a bit extra for another CB and wide option and will regret not doing so). However we the fans have never been given a say over whether we want to restrict ourselves with this model as it becomes increasingly clear how challenging it will be.

Jim, when have fans of an English club ever been given a real say in - let alone a say over - how it is run? Even at Swansea, which was held up an the example to follow, the shareholding the supporters had counted for nothing. The supporter-director was simply bypassed, kept out of the loop, when it came to a takeover.

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Krul was probably a bigger loss yesterday than we had appreciated, his experience nagging the CB’s to pick up as they moved forward would have helped for at least 3 villa goals!! Experienced heads , journeyman or not is needed at the moment!! 

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No-one that properly understands what we are trying to do is calling for us to spend millions on journeyman players and bankrupting the club. Stop deriding the people who think it is criminal that our additions to the first team squad for a premier league season amount to a free transfer, 2 loans and a £750k back up right back. Its madness that this is all we've spent in the summer.  We were crying out for improvements in the defensive midfield position and we get 1 guy in on loan who is having to fill in at CB so we now have 2 players better known for their attacking qualities filling in at CDM.  We will earn around 100 million this season, theres a mid ground to spending nothing and blowing millions on journeymen. We need to be in there somewhere.

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away at Bournemouth if Hanley not fit will be nightmare to find centre back who can play around  Amadou who also is not  a centre back 😕

we must try to reduced damages next game and not play suicide football anymore.

When defence is shambolic we need play much more deep and much more compact. Tettey or Trybull is a must for this approach and we badly need some of them back very soon.

I much more relaxed for Man Utd game than the next one simply because we will back more players also mood for this games at stadium is different and team will have much more careful approach reduced space who Man Utd need imo

Edited by Boris

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Did you feel the same after Manchester City? Did you feel the same at the start of the season? Or has your view rather developed as man after man has become cropped? I think you are a man of excellent hindsight !!! Perhaps Not one of foresight!! 

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2 hours ago, BarclayWazza said:

No-one that properly understands what we are trying to do is calling for us to spend millions on journeyman players and bankrupting the club. Stop deriding the people who think it is criminal that our additions to the first team squad for a premier league season amount to a free transfer, 2 loans and a £750k back up right back. Its madness that this is all we've spent in the summer.  We were crying out for improvements in the defensive midfield position and we get 1 guy in on loan who is having to fill in at CB so we now have 2 players better known for their attacking qualities filling in at CDM.  We will earn around 100 million this season, theres a mid ground to spending nothing and blowing millions on journeymen. We need to be in there somewhere.

Above was for you BarclayWazza - if we knew how it was going to turnout of course we should have bought more - but losing so many players was totally unpredictable. 

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3 hours ago, BarclayWazza said:

No-one that properly understands what we are trying to do is calling for us to spend millions on journeyman players and bankrupting the club. Stop deriding the people who think it is criminal that our additions to the first team squad for a premier league season amount to a free transfer, 2 loans and a £750k back up right back. Its madness that this is all we've spent in the summer.  We were crying out for improvements in the defensive midfield position and we get 1 guy in on loan who is having to fill in at CB so we now have 2 players better known for their attacking qualities filling in at CDM.  We will earn around 100 million this season, theres a mid ground to spending nothing and blowing millions on journeymen. We need to be in there somewhere.

How much do you think the free transfer, 2 loans cost us during the summer? Also we had to pay £5M for Buendia.

The £100 million will be paid over the season, we didn't have that money during the transfer window.

 

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6 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

No have you? None of us had seen Aarons and Lewis either.You have to start somewhere.

Yes I have and while it was just one match I thought Ciaran Jones was better, Famewo certainly isn’t the answer in my opinion 

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7 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

That would be a serious option if we could sign another overseas player but we're restricted to 'homegrown' only, and that makes the options severely limited unless Johan Djourou has been keeping himself in good shape since he parted ways with his last club 9 months ago. 

Just to give you a feel for how limited our options are.... other than him its probably James Collins who played for Ipswich last season, or Marc Wilson who played for Bolton last season. Both have experience at this level but both are ageing and realistically are lower Championship level. 

All three players have had injury problems.

Had we had space for another foreign player there are a few European International players under 30.... 

 

 

There is actually Jack Rodwell who converted into a centre back last season but rejected a new deal with Blackburn.

In some ways he's everything we stand against.

In other ways he fits the project quite well (reviving careers). 

Wouldn't be against a deal until the end of the season with an option of a further year. 

Also, I do wonder what the point in releasing Ben Marshall was when he's a) Homegrown, and b) we have 2 spaces left in the squad. 

He's still looking for a club... would have at least got some bench time this season! Byram named on the bench for Villa but unfit to actually play. 

A bit strange that he's still looking for a club, should imagine it means he thinks he is worthy of a Championship deal but only League One clubs have come along.... but our decision to terminate may suggest something else afoot? Lost hunger for the game, or personal issues of some sort? 

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2 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

How much do you think the free transfer, 2 loans cost us during the summer? Also we had to pay £5M for Buendia.

The £100 million will be paid over the season, we didn't have that money during the transfer window.

 

Yes and transfer fees are also paid out over the season.

I doubt they cost us that much though. The rumour was Amadou cost us a loan fee of £1m. I can't imagine Roberts cost too much more than that. As for Drmic, having spent two years on the treatment table I doubt he was able to command a massive signing on fee. I'd doubt if our outlay was even close to £10m. 

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4 minutes ago, king canary said:

Yes and transfer fees are also paid out over the season.

I doubt they cost us that much though. The rumour was Amadou cost us a loan fee of £1m. I can't imagine Roberts cost too much more than that. As for Drmic, having spent two years on the treatment table I doubt he was able to command a massive signing on fee. I'd doubt if our outlay was even close to £10m. 

It's probably better to wait until the accounts tell us what the fees were.

After promotion bonuses, the deserved new contracts for the current squad & Buendias fee it's all mounting up.

 

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4 hours ago, Rhino1 said:

Did you feel the same after Manchester City? Did you feel the same at the start of the season? Or has your view rather developed as man after man has become cropped? I think you are a man of excellent hindsight !!! Perhaps Not one of foresight!! 

I've always felt the self funding model limits what we're capable of.  Last season we had 4 players emerge through the ranks and a free transfer who all ended up being magnificent for the side.  But 3 of those 4 are young defenders in a team who still conceded over a goal a game over the season.  So, foresight? 3 young defenders, Klose (injury prone), Zimmerman (unproven at this level) and Hanley (not PL quality). I thought we needed more than what we started the season with.  And lo and behold, we're conceding 2.5 a game. Thinking we're ok? That's poor hindsight!

4 hours ago, Rhino1 said:

Above was for you BarclayWazza - if we knew how it was going to turnout of course we should have bought more - but losing so many players was totally unpredictable. 

We could have named a full 25 member squad.  We named 23.  What I said before about 4 class youth players coming through?  That's once in a generation for us and those players are likely to leave if we go down.

3 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

How much do you think the free transfer, 2 loans cost us during the summer? Also we had to pay £5M for Buendia.

The £100 million will be paid over the season, we didn't have that money during the transfer window.

 

As others have said, very little up front. Like a few decent signings would have cost us up front.  2005-06 we needed goals and waited until January to buy Ashton. Too late. 2016 we needed defenders and bought Klose in January.  Too late.  Other teams have managed to pay out promotion bonuses and have spent on improvements. We've got such an opportunity in front of us - I just dont want us to balls it up by not learning from previous lessons.

Of course, were it not for the fact that our owners could only afford to invest enough to buy a half decent strikers big toe, we might be able to compete on a more even keel.

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Barclay Wazza - don’t necessarily agree with all your points. But well put argument - and have to say although hindsight always adds strength to a view - your logic is convincing! 

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21 minutes ago, BarclayWazza said:

As others have said, very little up front. Like a few decent signings would have cost us up front.  2005-06 we needed goals and waited until January to buy Ashton. Too late. 2016 we needed defenders and bought Klose in January.  Too late.  Other teams have managed to pay out promotion bonuses and have spent on improvements. We've got such an opportunity in front of us - I just dont want us to balls it up by not learning from previous lessons.

Of course, were it not for the fact that our owners could only afford to invest enough to buy a half decent strikers big toe, we might be able to compete on a more even keel.

I'm surprised that you and 'others' are aware of how our summer dealing have been financed. I'll wait for the accounts.

During the summer most people agreed that we managed to get the players in that we needed so the previous promotions where we were deficient and had to correct that deficiency in January are not relevant examples.

We have learnt from previous seasons and one of those lessons is to not get ourselves in the same financial mess again.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

I'm surprised that you and 'others' are aware of how our summer dealing have been financed. I'll wait for the accounts.

During the summer most people agreed that we managed to get the players in that we needed so the previous promotions where we were deficient and had to correct that deficiency in January are not relevant examples.

We have learnt from previous seasons and one of those lessons is to not get ourselves in the same financial mess again.

 

 

I’m sure some wanted another CB, which has been our main issue. But as said a decent CB costs a hell of a lot of money, so could we afford better than we had? Trouble is we knew Klose & Hanley appear to be injury prone, so maybe one area of criticism. But agree we had a good summer, reality is we’re not too far away.

 

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