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king canary

Our summer business

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It is quite an embarrasment that we, after going up as Champions, refused to really strengthen. I appreciate that it was  never really going to be possible to splash the cash but, and I've said it before, if we had 15 mill or whatever it was to splash on Claude Maurice I would have liked to see us perhaps bring in a couple of quality additions with that money. I know it's difficult and perhaps there were irons in the fire and we were let down by players, agents...whatever. But it has come back to bite us in the backside.

Here is my verdict on the signings for the first team-

Fahrmann- Decent cover with a good pedigree. Although Krul starts for me, when fit.

Drmic- One or two flashes, played well in pre season. Haven't seen enough of him to fully judge but would be worried if Pukki got injured and he had to play up front.

Roberts- Clearly not fancied by Farke. Far too lightweight to be effective in the wing position as Farke likes these players to track back and makes tackles/win the ball. I haven't seen anything from him to suggest he can do that.

Byram- Absolutely brilliant against Man City, imo, but clearly injury prone (as are the rest of the new signings). However, probably the pick of the bunch from the new ones for me.

Amadou- Urgh... Really want to see this lad in DM as he is NOT a CB by any stretch of the imagination. Played well against Man City, against smaller strikers. Absolutely bullied by anyone over 6ft. Then again, as I said, CB is not his position.

Am I forgetting anyone??

Edited by BobLoz3

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I think we got players in every position people wanted us to in pre-season.

The money we spent or didn't spend isn't that relevant - however I can't help but feel had Byram cost 8mill and Drmic cost 10 mill and Fahrmann cost 10 mill some wouldn't be complaining....

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46 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I think we got players in every position people wanted us to in pre-season.

The money we spent or didn't spend isn't that relevant - however I can't help but feel had Byram cost 8mill and Drmic cost 10 mill and Fahrmann cost 10 mill some wouldn't be complaining....

The money isn't irrelevant- if you're willing to spend more it widens your pool of possible recruits. 

 

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15 minutes ago, king canary said:

The money isn't irrelevant- if you're willing to spend more it widens your pool of possible recruits. 

 

It's irrelevant because we don't know what we were willing to spend. Apparently we bid £15m for a winger in the summer. I assume it depends on how much we think a player 'suits' us. 

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28 minutes ago, hogesar said:

It's irrelevant because we don't know what we were willing to spend. Apparently we bid £15m for a winger in the summer. I assume it depends on how much we think a player 'suits' us. 

We don't know but I'd suggest the amount we did spend is a better indicator than unsubstantiated rumours.

 

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28 minutes ago, king canary said:

We don't know but I'd suggest the amount we did spend is a better indicator than unsubstantiated rumours.

 

But we filled the gaps in the squad with players we presumingly thought were good for the job? Why bother spending more if the players we wanted were available for less?

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7 minutes ago, hogesar said:

But we filled the gaps in the squad with players we presumingly thought were good for the job? Why bother spending more if the players we wanted were available for less?

Well the question is were they the players we wanted or the players we could afford on this minimal budget?

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9 minutes ago, king canary said:

Well the question is were they the players we wanted or the players we could afford on this minimal budget?

Like I say, the £15m on Claude-Maurice was fairly well established as a bit more than a rumour and Webber has mentioned it without naming in interviews too. 

So I suspect, they were players which fitted our criteria and player model whilst also not costing much.

Like I say, Fahrmann is a Champions League goalkeeper. Had it not been a loan and Shalke wanted him he'd be costing £10 million. I think that would have appeased some purely because we spent money.

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Just now, king canary said:

Well the question is were they the players we wanted or the players we could afford on this minimal budget?

Probably  a bit of both I reckon  Kingo, the balancing act between  setting realistic targets,  the wages that they are used to/ demand, fees etc combined with their  expected impact on the squad makes it a very difficult  operation  altogether.  The rumoured 15 mill that we were willing to spend  would not have been put out there by the Cliub unless it was serious,  as it would serve no purpose  other than encouraging  a selling Club to look for a bit more  money if we were considering a player priced within that range. I can't get too worked up about the minutiae  of deals, as i trust ( hopefully  wisely) the management  to do the best they can for the long term future of the club.

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6 hours ago, king canary said:

Fahrmann, Drmic and Byram have played a total of 276 minutes between them so far. How you've decided they are all top class and fantastic additions based on that I  do not know.

Likewise, because in only a few short games they’d not displaced Krul, Pukki and Aarons, in only their 276 minutes how on earth can you say otherwise? You’ve done this before with players being kept out of the side, as if it means they’re total failures and I find that quite bizarre. Never easy just coming off the bench, but Swiss international Drmic got on the scoresheet the other day with just 6 minutes to play, Fahrmann looked very good at Palace before his injury and it’s no secret the Champions League regular is held in high pedigree in Germany, and as for Byram, he was superb against Man City. And crucially none of them have played with any match sharpness whatsoever, so based on the evidence above, I’d say those posters that think these are fantastic £ for £ additions are looking to be far closer to the mark than yourself. 

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13 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Likewise, because in only a few short games they’d not displaced Krul, Pukki and Aarons, in only their 276 minutes how on earth can you say otherwise? You’ve done this before with players being kept out of the side, as if it means they’re total failures and I find that quite bizarre. Never easy just coming off the bench, but Swiss international Drmic got on the scoresheet the other day with just 6 minutes to play, Fahrmann looked very good at Palace before his injury and it’s no secret the Champions League regular is held in high pedigree in Germany, and as for Byram, he was superb against Man City. And crucially none of them have played with any match sharpness whatsoever, so based on the evidence above, I’d say those posters that think these are fantastic £ for £ additions are looking to be far closer to the mark than yourself. 

Oh god are we going to go back to the Passlack argument? I think the fact he's currently playing for the second-bottom side in Holland rather backs my assessment up.

I'm not writing these players off but my point remains that Amadou is the only new signing who has made a reasonable impact on the first team and that is due to an injury crisis.

My point isn't these are bad players- my point is that you'd struggle to make an argument that we've upgraded the first XI in any position over the summer.

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16 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm not writing these players off but my point remains that Amadou is the only new signing who has made a reasonable impact on the first team and that is due to an injury crisis.

My point isn't these are bad players- my point is that you'd struggle to make an argument that we've upgraded the first XI in any position over the summer.

If not for the Injury crisis I believe Amadou would have been an upgrade in his natural position. Hopefully we can find out soon.

Edited by ThorpeCanary
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4 minutes ago, king canary said:

Oh god are we going to go back to the Passlack argument? I think the fact he's currently playing for the second-bottom side in Holland rather backs my assessment up.

I'm not writing these players off but my point remains that Amadou is the only new signing who has made a reasonable impact on the first team and that is due to an injury crisis.

My point isn't these are bad players- my point is that you'd struggle to make an argument that we've upgraded the first XI in any position over the summer.

Passlack’s actually not doing badly in the Eredivisie, starting all 9 games and scoring 1 playing at fullback. Club position in the table can’t be solely attributed to him by any stretch of the imagination. At 21 he’s still a young player, and going out on loan from a footballing giant at that age is hardly unusual, it doesn’t make him a poor player whatsoever. 

You do have a very fair comment about whether we’ve upgraded or not, it’s something certainly up for debate, and come the end of the season we’ll have our answer, but for the very little money we’ve spent I feel we’ve got players on a parr at the very least. I think Fahrmann was meant to be an upgrade in fairness, but Krul’s form has been pretty damn good prior to injury. We knew we weren’t going to spend shed loads of money, so all things considered, I think it’s been quite astute business. I do hope we bring in 1 or 2 more in the January window though, I certainly think we could do with a centre back as priority, if even that’s the only business we do. 

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Just now, ThorpeCanary said:

If not for the Injury crisis I believe Amadou would have been an upgrade in his natural position. Hopefully we can find out soon.

Yep, good point about Amadou, forgot him. Still think he’ll prove to be a hit in front of Zimbo and Godfrey.

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30 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Passlack’s actually not doing badly in the Eredivisie, starting all 9 games and scoring 1 playing at fullback. Club position in the table can’t be solely attributed to him by any stretch of the imagination. At 21 he’s still a young player, and going out on loan from a footballing giant at that age is hardly unusual, it doesn’t make him a poor player whatsoever. 

Without meaning to go over all of this again, he's gone from a loan to the Bundesliga, to a loan to the Championship to a loan at the bottom end of the Eredivisie (a very weak league). If he's a good player he's done really well to hide it the last couple of years.

31 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

We knew we weren’t going to spend shed loads of money, so all things considered, I think it’s been quite astute business.

I agree Webber has it seems made the most of the budget he had. My issue is not with him it is with the restrictions he's having to work under.

 

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1 minute ago, king canary said:

agree Webber has it seems made the most of the budget he had. My issue is not with him it is with the restrictions he's having to work under

Aren't they self imposed restrictions though, as it is he who has overseen the restructuring of the Club?

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34 minutes ago, ThorpeCanary said:

If not for the Injury crisis I believe Amadou would have been an upgrade in his natural position. Hopefully we can find out soon.

Yes, I believe that too but we don't know for sure yet.

Signings like Byram and Drmic filled in for depth where we needed it. The major issue for me is we didn't give competition or upgrade on other positions and just assumed our players would step up.

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2 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Aren't they self imposed restrictions though, as it is he who has overseen the restructuring of the Club?

I don't think Webber is setting our transfer and wage budgets.

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48 minutes ago, king canary said:

I don't think Webber is setting our transfer and wage budgets.

No? Ok, just thought he was basically overseeing  the whole shebang,  as he talks as if he's  in charge, and if he is in charge then.........

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

I don't think Webber is setting our transfer and wage budgets.

Interesting! Who do you think is then?

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Seems to me that last season the greatest concern was the amount of goal we conceded.

Our youngsters were getting lots of praise despite that.

that was in the Champs, it was clear with promotion their task would be much more difficult at this much higher level.

Needless to say this is yet again our main problem this season, yet nothing was done in the transfer window to bring in some experience to help out.

Hard to believe we spent less than £1m, nothing on earth will convince me that we could not spend more than that.

We could well end up with the record for the club promoted to the PL and spent the least ever on transfers.

having said all that I would not want to follow the Fulham model of last season.

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

Signings like Byram and Drmic filled in for depth where we needed it. The major issue for me is we didn't give competition or upgrade on other positions and just assumed our players would step up.

And who is to say they won't step up?  We haven't seen Vrancic yet, Zimmermann has only a few minutes so far, both of who were huge for us last season.  Emi and Todd are still learning and need the people behind them to be more secure - and that has been difficult given the injury situation and all the changes that have had to be made.  Amadou hasn't had much chance to show what he can do in his favoured position and Trybull has imo been ok when he played - and imo will improve with game time. 

It's still an early time of the season and players will improve as the team/squad gets back to something like full fitness.  Imo Zimmermann and Krul are the key players to get fit again as they - along with Godfrey - are the core of the team and were developing brilliantly last season and no reason for that not to happen again. They, with a fit DM, whoever it may be, Amadou, Trybull or Tettey - will have a big effect.  The core of our team has been missing and it's no wonder we haven't looked good the last three weeks.

Early days, some good, some bad, more good to come than bad imo. but we do need more players fit.  Fit players is the key, not whether they can step up or not......they all have time to show they can play at this level and imo they will all do just that.

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1 hour ago, lappinitup said:

Interesting! Who do you think is then?

The board, finance director, owners etc. Webber may have had some say over how it is allocated but Sporting Directors don't set their own budgets.

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6 minutes ago, king canary said:

The board, finance director, owners etc. Webber may have had some say over how it is allocated but Sporting Directors don't set their own budgets.

Sure, but as he is in charge of the overall strategy , then he will have dictated the approach ,as in settling debts, future wage structure etc. and exactly what monies we were prepared to risk on which players. The finance director is the one tasked with providing SW with the financial info to allow him to form the strategy and make decisions.

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49 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Sure, but as he is in charge of the overall strategy , then he will have dictated the approach ,as in settling debts, future wage structure etc. and exactly what monies we were prepared to risk on which players. The finance director is the one tasked with providing SW with the financial info to allow him to form the strategy and make decisions.

Settling debts? I find that highly unlikely. Are you suggesting Webber decided to pay back the Colney £5m?

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

Settling debts? I find that highly unlikely. Are you suggesting Webber decided to pay back the Colney £5m?

why not, pay debts early , leave more wriggle room in future.Makes sense.

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Ever since Webber came in he's been up front about policy and how the money has been spent. So have Ben Kensell and Zoe Ward.When Stuart Webber talked about previous regimes peeing the PL money up the wall he was specifically talking about the club having nothing to show for it. He took pains to point out that nothing was spent on infrastructure at Colney or indeed at Carrow Road. All three were in favour of the canaries bond seeing the Colney upgrade as too important to wait for and obviously in favour of the way the bond would be paid back. They've all three been honest about spending money on infrastructure in the summer, a far cry from McNally's mantra that every penny had to go to the player budget. (Something we all supported at the time). So we know that the strip of land the other side of Carrow Road was brought. We don't know how much for but that is obviously the first part of looking to spend more on the stadium. So I don't see this changing and certainly not suddenly funding a Naismith if we find ourselves in the bottom three in January.

As for the rumour about the 15m player on deadline day, and yes it is an unsubstantiated rumour, but obviously if that deal fell through we couldn't then sign a couple of other players instead. 

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12 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

why not, pay debts early , leave more wriggle room in future.Makes sense.

I'm not questioning the wisdom of the decision- I'm questioning the idea that it was Webber's decision to make. He runs the sporting side of the club not the entire thing.

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obviously the sporting director will be working within the restraints of the club. Differing budgets available will result in different targets. It makes far more sense though to use the money now to lay the foundations for the future. Premier league campaigns will come and go for clubs like us, Use the money wisely and have something to show for it. What have we to show for our last endeavours into this league? 

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