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CDMullins

Northern Canaries - Consultation

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1 hour ago, CDMullins said:

Was anyone present at the consultation yesterday and can relay what was said by Ben?

There's some posts about the London meeting on Page 4 of the Membership Scheme meetings thread which is now on Page 2 of the forum.

Presumably very much the same was said in Burnley yesterday.

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I spoke to Rob Butcher yesterday who is a former chairman of Northern Canaries and he says 75 people were in attendance, He said numerous different points of view on the matter were put forward by fans but he felt nothing concrete came out of it.

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As just the second of five consultations, this was very much about listening to the various issues, many of which have previously been widely debated.

Attendees were given the opportunity to complete a brief questionnaire, having to list, three positives of the revised scheme, three negatives and to list one priority change they would immediately make.

The intention is to list all comments, together with notes of the questions asked, in order to group common themes, for further review internally, as part of revised scheme.

The aim is to announce the revised membership scheme in January 2020, simultaneously with the launch of season ticket info for next season.

Of the issues discussed:-

Why wasn’t a cap put on the numbers sold? The response was that restricting the number to, say, 3,000, would have had the consequence of creating a ‘closed shop’ with the same fans buying tickets to most games - the Club wants as many fans as possible to attend away games.

Why are tickets always sold at 9.00 am, when many are at work? This is something that is under review, although whatever time is selected, someone is going to be inconvenienced.

Why was the £10.00 membership discount only offered to away season ticket holders? Ben admitted that this was an error and that the Club was seeking to recompense Supporters next season - exactly how is still to be decided.

How have opposing fans managed to get tickets with NCFC fans? There’s no simple answer to this. If a (Liverpool the quoted example) fan already has a purchase history at Carrow Road, because NCFC is their second team,  it’s impossible to stop them buying a ticket for, say, Anfield. It’s also impossible (and not illegal) to stop home fans passing on their ticket to friends or family. 

Can the Club stop new members with no purchase history buying tickets for specific games? Yes, although, obviously everyone has to start somewhere.

Could the Club guarantee members at least one away ticket per season to top priority games? This was something that was under consideration. Obviously, the likes of West Ham and Spurs would be heavily oversubscribed irrespective.

There were other questions asked where ‘room noise’ meant that either the question, and / or answer, wasn’t fully heard. 

Hopefully the info given is accurate and gives a hint as to format and what can be expected for the forthcoming Carrow Road consultations.

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The £30 cap on tickets has meant a substantial lose of income for the club which they have addressed by hitting the fans in the pocket with the £50 membership scheme.

Seems to me that those shouting for this cap some years ago and were claiming a victory when it was introduced have somewhat inadvertently caused this current situation. If the club had been able to charge visiting fans £40/45 for a ticket that increase of £10/15 x 19 games that would have achieved in income a very similar sum to that generated by this new scheme.

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18 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

The £30 cap on tickets has meant a substantial lose of income for the club which they have addressed by hitting the fans in the pocket with the £50 membership scheme.

Seems to me that those shouting for this cap some years ago and were claiming a victory when it was introduced have somewhat inadvertently caused this current situation. If the club had been able to charge visiting fans £40/45 for a ticket that increase of £10/15 x 19 games that would have achieved in income a very similar sum to that generated by this new scheme.

It was a national campaign for cheaper tickets and NCFC are the only Premier League Club currently charging for away memberships, John. In that context it’s hardly the fans fault.

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12 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Are NCFC the only Premier League Club currently charging £30 for home tickets too?

I believe so, Nutty

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1 hour ago, GMF said:

It was a national campaign for cheaper tickets and NCFC are the only Premier League Club currently charging for away memberships, John. In that context it’s hardly the fans fault.

It was a national campaign run by the FSF in conjunction with Trusts and at the time it was announced the Trust at Norwich engaged in a lot of back patting over it. It is certainly not the fans fault and i never said it was and i said those involved had somewhat inadvertently caused the problem here at Norwich. The club had to make up the shortfall in revenue and this scheme has covered it. It is irrelevant that Norwich are the only Club charging for a scheme in the context of what i said.

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Ben Kensell was at pains to explain the financial constraints faced by the club and the need to maximise revenue wherever possible. Memberships were identified as an area that had not previously been fully tapped. The club was prudently planning for another Championship campaign in 2019-20 when the decision was apparently made on the new membership system. It was not clear if the new system would have been introduced in light of additional revenue gained from promotion to the EPL.

He apologised for two specific shortcomings, lack of supporter consultation and poor communication of the new membership scheme.

Personally I have no issue with the club seeking to maximise revenue wherever possible in order to strengthen the first team and academy. They just have to be very careful to ensure that it is done in a fair and transparent manner. There is no shortage of people out there willing to put their hands in their pockets as was seen with the bond scheme.

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it is not maximising revenue when the Club itself imposed a £30 limit on casual home tickets as it in fact devalued a season ticket by closing the monetary gap between the two. Add to that a season ticket holder commits some 6 months before the following season and those wishing to buy a casual ticket can wait until they go on sale for a specific game usually about 3 weeks before. That option surely should come at a price and to keep them at some of the £40 games of last season does not seem unreasonable to me.

Edited by TIL 1010

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1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

It was a national campaign run by the FSF in conjunction with Trusts and at the time it was announced the Trust at Norwich engaged in a lot of back patting over it. It is certainly not the fans fault and i never said it was and i said those involved had somewhat inadvertently caused the problem here at Norwich. The club had to make up the shortfall in revenue and this scheme has covered it. It is irrelevant that Norwich are the only Club charging for a scheme in the context of what i said.

I’m only too aware of the history here, John and see no reason to apologise for the modest role that the Trust (and other supporters groups) played. However, your assertion that those involved had inadvertently caused the problem at Norwich doesn’t stand up.

The Club was under no obligation from the Premier League to actually reduce casual ticket prices for home supporters to £30, but chose to do so.

The Club was also under no obligation to increase memberships to £50 for all home supporters, with no concessions.

Nor were they obliged charge membership fees to those who wish to go away - something which no other Club currently does.

The ‘lose’ in income is a myth - the reductions in ticket revenues are modest in comparison to the increases in TV revenues and the suggestion that the additional revenues raised by the changes would somehow make us more competitive is wholly dependent on one thing - how they actually spend the money. 

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12 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

it is not maximising revenue when the Club itself imposed a £30 limit on casual home tickets as it in fact devalued a season ticket by closing the monetary gap between the two. Add to that a season ticket holder commits some 6 months before the following season and those wishing to buy a casual ticket can wait until they go on sale for a specific game usually about 3 weeks before. That option surely should come at a price and to keep them at some of the £40 games of last season does not seem unreasonable to me.

I don't disagree with any of that. The issue of matching home casual ticket prices with those for away fans was addressed on Saturday and explained as "morally" the right thing to do. It does not necessarily follow that the extra membership revenue was intended to replace lost home casual ticket revenue. They were two separate decisions taken for differing reasons.

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4 hours ago, Andrew Spanton said:

Ben Kensell was at pains to explain the financial constraints faced by the club and the need to maximise revenue wherever possible. Memberships were identified as an area that had not previously been fully tapped. The club was prudently planning for another Championship campaign in 2019-20 when the decision was apparently made on the new membership system. It was not clear if the new system would have been introduced in light of additional revenue gained from promotion to the EPL.

He apologised for two specific shortcomings, lack of supporter consultation and poor communication of the new membership scheme.

Personally I have no issue with the club seeking to maximise revenue wherever possible in order to strengthen the first team and academy. They just have to be very careful to ensure that it is done in a fair and transparent manner. There is no shortage of people out there willing to put their hands in their pockets as was seen with the bond scheme.

A Board member told me on another occasion that the system would have been introduced regardless.

Whether or not the costs to supporters would have been different had we still been in the Championship is anybody's guess.

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I have no issue with the cost of a casual home ticket being valued closely to my season ticket.

A season ticket ensures your seat in a specific area whereas a casual could be anywhere (including restricted view)

Edited by BigManInTheBarclay

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40 minutes ago, BigManInTheBarclay said:

I have no issue with the cost of a casual home ticket being valued closely to my season ticket.

A season ticket ensures your seat in a specific area whereas a casual could be anywhere (including restricted view)

To be fair I don't either. But that wasn't the point I was making. I was trying  to highlight the complete randomness of the whole thing. 

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Sorry to bring this up again.. STADIUM EXPANSION...NEW GROUND ANYONE??? I am sorry , but this has shown we need some more seats in the ground...we could fill a 35 k stadium for sure... (rant over)

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For sure. Shall we pay for it with increased ticket prices? Or charge more for membership? Or not have such a good football team (but then we wouldn't need it). 12 months ago we couldn't sell out, even season tickets were freely available to buy...

I'd love an increased capacity but not sure anyone wants to pay for it..

Edited by nutty nigel
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2 hours ago, BigManInTheBarclay said:

I have no issue with the cost of a casual home ticket being valued closely to my season ticket.

A season ticket ensures your seat in a specific area whereas a casual could be anywhere (including restricted view)

You commit and pay for your season ticket about six months before the season starts whereas casual tickets only go on sale three or four weeks before the actual game. Yes you can pay in installments for the season ticket but the commitment has been made with no picking and choosing which the casual ticket gives you the flexibility to do.

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I think it makes sense how it is. Your season ticket guarantees you the same seat for all home games for as long as you want it. If we were like those down the road and sitting in a half empty stadium it might make sense to offer more of a monetary incentive to get fans to buy season tickets. As it is theres no need for Norwich to lower the price of season tickets and I think matching the costs of away tickets is the right decision for our fans who can't make that many games a season.

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Maybe, but I'm not sure why it's morally wrong for casual fans to pay more than away fans but morally right for season tkt holders to pay more than the casual price for their ticket. That seems random morals to me🙃

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If we weren't promoted and this scheme had been brought in does anyone think that there would be half as much wailing and gnashing of teeth? It should have been communicated fat better but I have little problem with the concept, just the execution and if there weren't so many people getting pi55ed off at not getting the tickets for the primo matches when they feel like they deserve them then there would barely be a mention of it on here...

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2 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

If we weren't promoted and this scheme had been brought in does anyone think that there would be half as much wailing and gnashing of teeth? It should have been communicated fat better but I have little problem with the concept, just the execution and if there weren't so many people getting pi55ed off at not getting the tickets for the primo matches when they feel like they deserve them then there would barely be a mention of it on here...

The issue doesn't necessarily come from not getting tickets, but the fact that lots of people have paid £50 to not get tickets.

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18 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

For sure. Shall we pay for it with increased ticket prices? Or charge more for membership? Or not have such a good football team (but then we wouldn't need it). 12 months ago we couldn't sell out, even season tickets were freely available to buy...

I'd love an increased capacity but not sure anyone wants to pay for it..

I've paid for it! They can put the money I spent in a piggy bank for a new stadium ( I can't get any tickets with it)..

 

31 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

The issue doesn't necessarily come from not getting tickets, but the fact that lots of people have paid £50 to not get tickets.

That's the point , if they'd said 100 £ but we can guarantee you a ticket...I would've paid for it (not saying that this is workable)... this 50 £ for nothing...that's what I think is just unfair

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