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A Load of Squit

Buendia's Transfer fee

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According to the front page Emi has eyes on playing for Argentina. Not sure that will work well for us, assuming it happens soon.

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On 16/09/2019 at 21:25, PurpleCanary said:

That doesn’t square with the accounts, which indicated that the basic fee was about 1.5m and the extra several million were dependent on factors such as promotion rather than being definitely owed sooner or later.

A factor could be 'still at the club on June 1st each year' 

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10 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

According to the front page Emi has eyes on playing for Argentina. Not sure that will work well for us, assuming it happens soon.

Must be really difficult thinking that every single player will jump ship as soon as they get some international recognition. I would rather not think about the possibilities of that and instead enjoy what I'm seeing on the football field from my team at the moment.

Anyone else?

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18 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Thanks. If Brexit happens and those tough criteria remain then most if not all of the kind of overseas player we have signed would be out of bounds to us.

 Indeed for example certain Teemu Pukki would not fullfill that criteria as Finland is currently ranked 57th in FIFA ranking.

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1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

A very rough look now, but  based on the current criteria of the overseas players we have signed in the Farke era, only Pukki and probably Drmic would have been available to us.

Vrancic, Zimmermann, Franke, Trybull, Stiepermann, Hernandez, Srbeny, Buendia, Leitner and Heise would all have been out of bounds to us, and also Amadou and Fahrmann this season if the rules apply, as I imagine they do, to loan deals.

---

Just to add, this is free-thinking on my part but if the UK crashes out of the EU with a No-Deal Brexit on October 31, which is a distinctly possible (some would say probable) outcome then logic would dictate that those tough, very limiting (certainly as far as we are concerned)  FA criteria would come into play straight away.

In other words, before the January transfer window! The FA might decide to suspend the criteria until the end of the season, of course. But even so in the longer run Brexit, if it happens, does seem to pose a real problem for us, given the sustainable model built on spotting young talent from overseas.

PS. That is on the assumption - which seems logical but may be wrong - that the FA rules, making it very hard to buy non-EU players, are based on our membership of the EU, and that as soon as we leave the EU (if we do) then the tough rules would apply to EU players as well.

I don't think Pukki would have been available according to those rules as Finland is ranked 57th by FIFA and that table ends at 50th position.

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I don’t think that’s logical. At the moment EU players have free movement so logically the bar is set high for non EU players, as the only way to keep down the total.

 

If we leave and EU players lose that preferential status, logically you could set a bar for all players at a lower level than currently and end up with the same number in total.

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20 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

A factor could be 'still at the club on June 1st each year' 

Not sure what that point is, Bethnal. I may be missing something (it would not be the first time), but the accounts do seem fairly clear:
 

"Subsequent to the year end the Group has acquired the registrations of players E Buendia, T Pukki, M Leitner, T Krul, along with J Rhodes and F Passlack on season-long loans.The Group is committed to payments of £4.2m in respect of these transactions with further payments due of £9.0m dependent on Club and/or player performance."

So just over 4m in basic transfer/loan fees, which might well be paid in instalments, as is the common practice, but which we would have to pay sooner or later. And that would make sense, with about 1.5m each for Buendia and Leitner, and a million or so for the loan fees.

Then the 9m  would make sense as being made up of add-ons of, say about 4m each, to Augsburg and Getafe triggered by promotion. I know it seems crazy that Getafe let Buendia go for so small a basic fee, but on the other hand they had offloaded him to a second-tier club.

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3 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

I don’t think that’s logical. At the moment EU players have free movement so logically the bar is set high for non EU players, as the only way to keep down the total.

 

If we leave and EU players lose that preferential status, logically you could set a bar for all players at a lower level than currently and end up with the same number in total.

That's a fair point, and the FA might decide to alter its criteria. But the government might not allow it to. The Brexit argument is that the UK has to leave the EU to get out from under freedom of movement. To reclaim total control of immigration. So that Polish plumbers, Romanian nurses and Italian pasta chefs no longer have the unfettered right to move to the UK for work. The logic of that is that German central defenders and Bosnian midfielders won't have that right either, no matter what the FA wants.

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46 minutes ago, BobLoz3 said:

Must be really difficult thinking that every single player will jump ship as soon as they get some international recognition. I would rather not think about the possibilities of that and instead enjoy what I'm seeing on the football field from my team at the moment.

Anyone else?

Not sure I mentioned jumping ship, but there is that as well. I'm more concerned with the additional risk of injury and the travelling time affecting his training and performances with us.

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1 hour ago, It's Character Forming said:

I don’t think that’s logical. At the moment EU players have free movement so logically the bar is set high for non EU players, as the only way to keep down the total.

 

If we leave and EU players lose that preferential status, logically you could set a bar for all players at a lower level than currently and end up with the same number in total.

Indeed, and it could be possible that the Premier League scraps work permits altogether and just uses a 'non-British' quota similar to the current homegrown rules but based on nationality instead.

One thing is for sure: the Premier League knows that a huge reason as to why it's the biggest league in the world is that it is able to attract lots of works class overseas talent. The Premier League will push hard to enable clubs to be able to sign overseas players.

 

52 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

That's a fair point, and the FA might decide to alter its criteria. But the government might not allow it to. The Brexit argument is that the UK has to leave the EU to get out from under freedom of movement. To reclaim total control of immigration. So that Polish plumbers, Romanian nurses and Italian pasta chefs no longer have the unfettered right to move to the UK for work. The logic of that is that German central defenders and Bosnian midfielders won't have that right either, no matter what the FA wants.

I think earnings may come into the equation. Professional footballers earn a lot more money and pay a lot more tax, so I doubt the government would be too opposed to letting in non-British millionaires.

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43 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Not sure I mentioned jumping ship, but there is that as well. I'm more concerned with the additional risk of injury and the travelling time affecting his training and performances with us.

Oh... Sorry! I misunderstood your point.

Hmm... Well, yes, I guess there is the risk of injury and more fatigue through travel etc. but we've had to deal with it with other players (mostly to European teams admittedly). However, if it did happen I'd be pleased for Emi. It's a massive honour to play for your country and I don't think anyone would stand in his way or begrudge him of that. Not our decision!

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2 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Indeed, and it could be possible that the Premier League scraps work permits altogether and just uses a 'non-British' quota similar to the current homegrown rules but based on nationality instead.

One thing is for sure: the Premier League knows that a huge reason as to why it's the biggest league in the world is that it is able to attract lots of works class overseas talent. The Premier League will push hard to enable clubs to be able to sign overseas players.

 

I think earnings may come into the equation. Professional footballers earn a lot more money and pay a lot more tax, so I doubt the government would be too opposed to letting in non-British millionaires.

Oh I think there would be enormous pressure brought to bear on any government post-Brexit not to limit the number of vastly overpaid prima donnas that Man Utd, Man City et al would want to sign...😎

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1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

That's a fair point, and the FA might decide to alter its criteria. But the government might not allow it to. The Brexit argument is that the UK has to leave the EU to get out from under freedom of movement. To reclaim total control of immigration. So that Polish plumbers, Romanian nurses and Italian pasta chefs no longer have the unfettered right to move to the UK for work. The logic of that is that German central defenders and Bosnian midfielders won't have that right either, no matter what the FA wants.

Using the new Paul Moy Fantasy 'Aussie based rules system' one of the categories will be 'Are you the left back that insert name of team here need?' Yes, +1,000,000 points, you're in!

😀

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On 17/09/2019 at 15:26, BobLoz3 said:

All I hope is that, regardless of when Webber disappears, we still look at this pragmatic approach and recruit someone of a similar calibre. Who knows players, understands the overseas markets, works like crazy etc. So that we're still churning out good players after purchasing them for peanuts along with developing youth. If that carries on, I would say we have a great chance of not only staying in this league but moving up in it year on year. Mind you, I can't imagine what they could achieve with a bit more budget and that would have to come from player sales, admittedly. Right now you wouldn't want to sell any of the star performers and we may not have to!

It is going to be hard to replace him, Farke, the coaching staff etc. should the unimaginable happen. I hope they stay for some time, personally, and see where they can take this great club of ours.

Agree.... They should be (and hopefully are) writing a Permanent Management Plan based on the actions, philosophies and attitudes of SW and DF and the first thing new executives / managers / coaches have to do is a thorough induction course .... this is our way, learn it, adopt it, follow it!!!! 

This is evidently the way to run a football club.....  We are so lucky and no doubt proud that it is our club paving the way!    Everything that comes out of our club nowadays is absolute CLASS!   

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On 17/09/2019 at 08:47, PurpleCanary said:

Zimmermann was playing in the German 4th tier and thinking seriously of retiring! I think we might have struggled to justify a work permit for him. As Wacky says, it all depends on how loose or strict a post-Brexit regime would be, but the big clubs able to sign multi-capped internationals would probably find it easier to meet the criteria than us, with our more obscure targets.

Yes I made the same points in the Brexit thread and was shot down as being part of "project fear", but there is no way they can sustain one rule for footballers and another for other workers, you either are skilled or you are not and Zimmermann et al can't qualify without making a mockery of the visa scheme. The big boys will be fine as they sign established internationals. 

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10 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Just to add, this is free-thinking on my part but if the UK crashes out of the EU with a No-Deal Brexit on October 31, which is a distinctly possible (some would say probable) outcome then logic would dictate that those tough, very limiting (certainly as far as we are concerned)  FA criteria would come into play straight away.

In other words, before the January transfer window! The FA might decide to suspend the criteria until the end of the season, of course. But even so in the longer run Brexit, if it happens, does seem to pose a real problem for us, given the sustainable model built on spotting young talent from overseas.

PS. That is on the assumption - which seems logical but may be wrong - that the FA rules, making it very hard to buy non-EU players, are based on our membership of the EU, and that as soon as we leave the EU (if we do) then the tough rules would apply to EU players as well.

Also why I suggested one of the reasons to get the current squad on such long contracts this summer may be to pressure the FA to agree we had a legal obligation, and any such rule changes must have a grandfather provision to cover existing contracted players. 

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52 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Yes I made the same points in the Brexit thread and was shot down as being part of "project fear", but there is no way they can sustain one rule for footballers and another for other workers, you either are skilled or you are not and Zimmermann et al can't qualify without making a mockery of the visa scheme. The big boys will be fine as they sign established internationals. 

There really is, it will be done on earnings. Absolutely nobody cares how many foreign tax paying millionaires we bring in to the country.

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Well who knows what would happen if the UK leaves the EU and has to come up with a new immigration policy, but it seems pretty likely to me that the relative handful of footballers being brought in by top level clubs would be put into some sort of favoured category, albeit probably on an equal footing for EU and non-EU people.  It's not something I'm going to be losing sleep over.

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On 18/09/2019 at 13:30, PurpleCanary said:

Not sure what that point is, Bethnal. I may be missing something (it would not be the first time), but the accounts do seem fairly clear:
 

"Subsequent to the year end the Group has acquired the registrations of players E Buendia, T Pukki, M Leitner, T Krul, along with J Rhodes and F Passlack on season-long loans.The Group is committed to payments of £4.2m in respect of these transactions with further payments due of £9.0m dependent on Club and/or player performance."

So just over 4m in basic transfer/loan fees, which might well be paid in instalments, as is the common practice, but which we would have to pay sooner or later. And that would make sense, with about 1.5m each for Buendia and Leitner, and a million or so for the loan fees.

Then the 9m  would make sense as being made up of add-ons of, say about 4m each, to Augsburg and Getafe triggered by promotion. I know it seems crazy that Getafe let Buendia go for so small a basic fee, but on the other hand they had offloaded him to a second-tier club.

It states club or player performance. It doesn’t necessarily have to be promotion. It could be based on appearances or Norwich not getting relegated, it could be based on the player just still being around - not an uncommon clause. 

With the Buendia fee, it seems to be that Norwich were always likely to pay the full fee (£5m ish) but it is just how quickly that fee would be paid that was in the clauses. I suspect there was a ‘if Norwich go down we don’t pay any more, if they are promoted we pay the whole thing’ clause and then some additional bits and pieces around appearances.

I’d also expect Getafe are due a chunk of any profit Norwich should make on him. 

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On 19/09/2019 at 15:04, It's Character Forming said:

Well who knows what would happen if the UK leaves the EU and has to come up with a new immigration policy, but it seems pretty likely to me that the relative handful of footballers being brought in by top level clubs would be put into some sort of favoured category, albeit probably on an equal footing for EU and non-EU people.  It's not something I'm going to be losing sleep over.

I'd like to think in the wider scheme of things, there might be some other occupations in these categories too (doctors, surgeons, nurses, care workers...).

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On 17/09/2019 at 13:45, Midlands Yellow said:

Around £50 M .

He has got a lot to do before anybody would spend anywhere near that on him. 

It's not enough to look top class in one game, we've played 6. He still has it all to prove at this level. 

If he can do the business consistently then yes. But that's still an "if", just some realism. 

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