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Christoph Stiepermann

Todd Cantwell

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I must confess I didn't see him featuring regularly for us this season until I saw him play a couple of times in pre-season and it was immediately clear that he was a yard quicker and a yard stronger. He always had the technical ability but he seems to have really worked hard on his athleticism after dropping out of the side last year and its really paying off. I think he will now go on to have a top career. Its also very noticeable that he is making a lot more forward runs through the middle to get up with and at times beyond Pukki which I assume must have been something that they worked on in pre-season. Playing alongside Pukki must be great, especially now he is well known and teams are watching him carefully as his runs attract defenders and free up space for midfielders to run into.

Much like our whole side did last season, he seems to have learnt when to inject that bit of extra pace or forward thrust into his game. He didn't always have that last season which is why at times when Buendia was missing (and I think Todd was feeling the pace a bit after a full on season) we looked a bit toothless and it was the right time to rest him. 

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5 hours ago, Six Pack said:

No need to get carried away !

I don't think it is getting carried away at all to suggest that Cantwell in this form is better than Hoolahan. Hoolahan is a club legend who was a top Championship player and a decent Premier League one, but lacked a few things to take him further than that. Cantwell, however, is a more complete player and is performing consistently right now at a level that Hoolahan was able to reach in patches but not really over a prolonged length of time.

I don't think I'm overrating Cantwell, I think I'm just being realistic with Hoolahan.

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1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I don't think it is getting carried away at all to suggest that Cantwell in this form is better than Hoolahan. Hoolahan is a club legend who was a top Championship player and a decent Premier League one, but lacked a few things to take him further than that. Cantwell, however, is a more complete player and is performing consistently right now at a level that Hoolahan was able to reach in patches but not really over a prolonged length of time.

I don't think I'm overrating Cantwell, I think I'm just being realistic with Hoolahan.

Hoolahan plays a different game to Cantwell. They don't even play in the same position.

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On 16/09/2019 at 15:43, Six Pack said:

Hoolahan plays a different game to Cantwell. They don't even play in the same position.

Yes, Cantwell plays Hoolahan's position as well as tracking back to cover in [defense]. The game has moved on dramatically since Wes was here and I don't believe that, even in his peak, he would have been good enough to fit into this team. 

Edited by Petriix
Grammar

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51 minutes ago, Petriix said:

Yes, Cantwell plays Hoolahan's position as well as tracking back to cover in defensive. The game has moved on dramatically since Wes was here and I don't believe that, even in his peak, he would have been good enough to fit into this team. 

Wow  - you sound like you're just discovered Norwich City !

Cantwell is a winger. Hoolahan didn't have the luxury of players in "this team" as you put it.

You probably wasn't a fan we beat the likes of Man United and Man City back in 2010. We had Hughton as coach - we had to grind out results. It wasn't pretty stuff to watch but we achieved results.

We do have a pretty good team now and I've always back Todd Cantwell - and not just because he's a local lad or not just starting this season !

Lot of disrespect for a canary legend on this post - times have moved on dramatically also for the breed of supporters we have !

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2 hours ago, Six Pack said:

Wow  - you sound like you're just discovered Norwich City !

Cantwell is a winger. Hoolahan didn't have the luxury of players in "this team" as you put it.

You probably wasn't a fan we beat the likes of Man United and Man City back in 2010. We had Hughton as coach - we had to grind out results. It wasn't pretty stuff to watch but we achieved results.

We do have a pretty good team now and I've always back Todd Cantwell - and not just because he's a local lad or not just starting this season !

Lot of disrespect for a canary legend on this post - times have moved on dramatically also for the breed of supporters we have !

Cantwell isn't naturally a winger. His natural position is more central, as a playmaker, in a very similar role to Hoolahan. 

Accusing people of 'not being fans' if they don't rate Hoolahan is ridiculous. Nobody is being disrespectful to Hoolahan; he is, was and forever will be a club legend, but let's be honest: he probably wouldn't get in this team. As talented as he was, he didn't do enough without the ball and would probably be considered too much of a 'luxury'.

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Hoolahan was our most technically gifted player over a number of years, and will go down as a great player in that era.

But he wouldn't get in the current team as the system doesn't suit him. 

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In Garth Crook’s PL team of the week I see, alongside Buendia.  When was the last time we had two players in that honorary team? 

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I'm pleased Todd has stepped up this season, great to see. I do wonder if Argos had been fit whether he'd have had the same opportunities. 

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6 minutes ago, Trevor Hockey's Beard said:

Is Todd OK? Kyle W@*ker tried to chop him in half when he went into the corner and Todd was left on the floor clutching his groin area.

I never have liked Kyle W*nker, he's always had an edge to him.

He went down hard but was strolling around after the game. He'll walk it off. 

As for Hoolahan, he was a legend and a brilliantly-gifted player. But he wouldn't get in this team and Todd will surpass him if things continue the way they are. 

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58 minutes ago, Trevor Hockey's Beard said:

Is Todd OK? Kyle W@*ker tried to chop him in half when he went into the corner and Todd was left on the floor clutching his groin area.

I never have liked Kyle W*nker, he's always had an edge to him.

He's a nasty piece - he also spat at Pukki as he was going down near the end of the game

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56 minutes ago, Trevor Hockey's Beard said:

Is Todd OK? Kyle W@*ker tried to chop him in half when he went into the corner and Todd was left on the floor clutching his groin area.

I never have liked Kyle W*nker, he's always had an edge to him.

Hugely over-rated. Hopefully we'll never see him in an England shirt again. In terms of right-backs he's probably dropped to 5th or 6th in the pecking order, maybe even lower as he was easily the second best right back on the pitch on Saturday!

Mind you having said that, right-back is unusual in England at the moment, we've got half a dozen of them who would walk into the majority of national sides (Alexander-Arnold, Trippier, Wan Bissaka, Aarons, Walker, Clyne); that's insane depth for one position.

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Different  players, different teams. 

Hoollahan was someone who would move play forward for us and was often the most gifted in a number of ‘good’ city teams.

TC is dynamic, young, hungry and naturally talented in a team which includes other superb talent. This is our best squad I can remember and TC has been given the floor, I’m delighted for him. 

However players such as Hoolahan had the ability to adapt and it would not be beyond the realms of probablity to believe he could push his way into this team, when at his best.

Who would I rate higher? No idea!

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55 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

He went down hard but was strolling around after the game. He'll walk it off. 

As for Hoolahan, he was a legend and a brilliantly-gifted player. But he wouldn't get in this team and Todd will surpass him if things continue the way they are. 

I think Cantwell and the entire team made us fans pretty proud to be associated with the club on Saturday. We should all be enjoying the moment. So why the snark remark on previous players ? That's got nothing to do Cantwell or with our performance on Saturday  - have you got sociological problems or something ? An attention seeker ?

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I find the habit some of our fans have of disparaging past players through comparisons with current players very strange. Its possible to say that Cantwell is good without being disrespectful to one of our greatest servants in Wes. I can remember Wes almost single handedly transforming our team when he came into it during more than one of our premier league seasons. As one of our most technically gifted players ever I don't see why he could not play in a Farke side, indeed I think in his prime he would have flourished in it.

Cantwell is looking good and I think going to be great for us.

Wes was great for us for a prolonged period. No need to slag off Wes to make the point that Cantwell looks good. 

 

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On 17/09/2019 at 09:14, Six Pack said:

I think Cantwell and the entire team made us fans pretty proud to be associated with the club on Saturday. We should all be enjoying the moment. So why the snark remark on previous players ? That's got nothing to do Cantwell or with our performance on Saturday  - have you got sociological problems or something ? An attention seeker ?

Someone else mentioned Hoolahan above and I don't think it's beyond the realms of a football forum to compare past and present players? I didn't say that Wes was crap, **** or anything else, I even called him a "legend". I just said he wouldn't get into this team (and he wouldn't)and that Todd will surpass him if the trends continue (which he will). Is it now no longer permitted to give an opinion? Or do you feel like a big man for attacking other posters when they dare profess an opinion that doesn't wholly align with yours? One of us clearly has issues but you may want to rethink which way around it is. 

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15 hours ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Someone else mentioned Hoolahan above and I don't think it's beyond the realms of a football forum to compare past and present players? I didn't say that Wes was crap, **** or anything else, I even called him a "legend". I just said he wouldn't get into this team (and he wouldn't)and that Todd will surpass him if the trends continue (which he will). Is it now no longer permitted to give an opinion? Or do you feel like a big man for attacking other posters when they dare profess an opinion that doesn't wholly align with yours? One of us clearly has issues but you may want to rethink which way around it is. 

Why have you reignited this ? The thread is about Todd Cantwell not Hoolahan. This is a Norwich City Forum - you can make comments rubbishing Pele or Maradona if you want, but don't rubbish our best players. Yes you are allowed your opinion but is there any reason to go off topic and "attack" Hoolahan ?   Yes it's an attack because of the snark way you present it.  There are fickle fans on here that if Cantwell were to have a couple of bad performances will turn on him pretty quickly  - with your track record you're a major candidate.

Not sure if you recall DF saying "I'd love to have the opportunity to work with Wes when he was at his peak". DF is pretty honest and I believe him when he said that. If he could transform budget players what could have done with someone like Hoolahan ?

It doesn't take a "big man" to stand up for their club and it's players (past & present). Why not just enjoy the moment without putting others down ?

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Wes was a top player for us over a number of years and quite rightly a club legend,Todd has just started out on his career and is doing brilliantly who knows at this early stage how good he will become.At their peak lots of former players would have got into this team it is nonsense to say they wouldn’t and is being disrespectful to some top professionals that we have had the pleasure to have watched over the years.Lets just enjoy the ride 😉

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1 hour ago, clever trevor said:

Wes was a top player for us over a number of years and quite rightly a club legend,Todd has just started out on his career and is doing brilliantly who knows at this early stage how good he will become.At their peak lots of former players would have got into this team it is nonsense to say they wouldn’t and is being disrespectful to some top professionals that we have had the pleasure to have watched over the years.Lets just enjoy the ride 😉

Agree with this.

For example, we only play with one recognised striker, so you could say that Grant Holt, Chris Sutton, Flecky, Kevin Drinkell, Craig Bellamy, Iwan Roberts etc would not get into this team-or that one would get in and Pukki wouldn’t-but that doesn’t recognise that they were all excellent players for us at the time, and who knows how they would have played in this team?

It’s interesting to compare the present day players with past players but ultimately it’s meaningless!

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Hoolahan had ridiculousy high levels of stamina and would have been fine in this high press system at his best. 

Farke would have taken him to another level if he'd grabbed hold of him at 27/28. 

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2 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Hoolahan had ridiculousy high levels of stamina and would have been fine in this high press system at his best. 

Farke would have taken him to another level if he'd grabbed hold of him at 27/28. 

Tend to agree with this. I think he would have had a field day in this team in his prime. I saw his frustration a few times when others couldn't read his play. But this team seem to instinctively know where a pass is going, where to be or where a teammate is. Wes would love it and Todd is an exemplar of this way of playing. 

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24 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

The number 14 holds mysterious power 

Todd will be a better player than Wes ever was.

Wes was great at what he did, but Todd has a much wider range of skills.

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Interestingly, I was chatting to a chap yesterday (not a city fan) who had seen us a couple of times this season and didn’t think Cantwell looked all that great. “Rough around the edges” and didn’t think he offered all that much, perhaps lacking a bit in technical quality. He thought Buendia looked far better.

Cantwell young and having a good season, but let’s not get carried away. 

Re Hoolahan vs Cantwell, let’s not forget Hoolahan was part of a side that finished 12th and 11th in the prem as well, and that was only six years ago. To me it looks as though Cantwell is probably more dynamic in his movements, but Hoolahan (especially later in his career) had high work rate. I always thought he was unfairly pictured as a “luxury” player when actually he often popped up doing defensive work. He was also top top quality with the ball at his feet (well, foot). Not the quickest and very one footed which were the two things stopping him being a real top player. I’m not sure Cantwell has shown quite the high level of quality/technique that Hoolahan had, but he probably is more mobile. Cantwell a different type of player (albeit in a similar position), could go on to be seen in the same bracket as Hoolahan but needs to regularly do it for a few seasons first.

Edited by Aggy

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13 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

The number 14 holds mysterious power 

When I was a lad this was my favourite 'strip' in the comics of the day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy's_Boots

The series concerned Billy Dane, a schoolboy and aspiring footballer, who was an extremely poor player until he discovered a pair of old style, ankle high, football boots while cleaning his grandmother's loft. The boots, which his grandfather had bought as a souvenir, had belonged, decades before, to a famous professional striker called Charles "Dead Shot" Keen. In a manner which was never explained in the story, the boots possess special abilities which turn Billy into a fantastic football player when he wore them. In addition to giving Billy the physical skill to score great goals, the boots also granted him the intuition to be in the right place at the time on the pitch, leading him to feel that they have a "mind of their own".

 

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45 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

When I was a lad this was my favourite 'strip' in the comics of the day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy's_Boots

The series concerned Billy Dane, a schoolboy and aspiring footballer, who was an extremely poor player until he discovered a pair of old style, ankle high, football boots while cleaning his grandmother's loft. The boots, which his grandfather had bought as a souvenir, had belonged, decades before, to a famous professional striker called Charles "Dead Shot" Keen. In a manner which was never explained in the story, the boots possess special abilities which turn Billy into a fantastic football player when he wore them. In addition to giving Billy the physical skill to score great goals, the boots also granted him the intuition to be in the right place at the time on the pitch, leading him to feel that they have a "mind of their own".

 

One of my favourites, my Dad used to come back on Saturday morning with the comic 😀

 

i remember one when Billy had to play a 5 a side game indoors and so had to cope without the special boots 🥾 when they were wearing trainers.

 

Also another when the boots suddenly start taking Billy away from the action and he was thinking “what?” But he takes a defender with him, leaving space for a team mate to score and he understands what the boots were doing, made a deep impression on me at age 9!

 

 

Happy days!

Edited by It's Character Forming

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14 hours ago, Van wink said:

Todd will be a better player than Wes ever was.

Wes was great at what he did, but Todd has a much wider range of skills.

The nasty element of our fan base has continued to rear it's ugly head on this thread.

How exactly do you base your opinion anyway ? Hoolahan has played for us for 10 seasons so after Cantwell's 2 part seasons for us you have compared them and come to the conclusion that Cantwell is way better than Hoolahan. Have you based your comparison through results, goals and assists ? Can't compare purely on games played. Both players have guile - if anything Hoolahan has closer control and can work in tighter compact spaces, both goal scoring range is roughly 6 yards, both appear easy to shrug off defensively, both have a footballing brain - so what skills do Cantwell process that Hoolahan doesn't ? Is it Cantwell is taller and can run faster ? Is he 2 footed ?  Hoolahan can ghost past defenders pretty easily - has he not done this in enough of his 365 odd games and Todd has done this in the couple he has played ? Have you done this comparison using Hoolahan's worse game for us next to Cantwell's best ? DF's team gameplan is a consolidated defence so Todd will stick to it longer than Hoolahan in his time in the team.

I have covered all assessment points and can't see any extreme differences.  So how do you form your opinion ?   Do you like the way he runs ?

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