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TeemuVanBasten

Season hinges on Amadou?

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Think the penny has just dropped for me, our chances of surviving this season are going to hinge largely on Amadou being a competent centre back and Godfrey + Hanley staying fit until January?

We can buy a centre back in January.  

I'm still trying to get my head around this, is this entirely bad luck or has the club made some mistakes here? 

You can say that 4 centre backs is enough but one was injured all pre-season, and it looks like most clubs in this division actually run with 5. We can't say that Amadou was brought in for that position because in a 2 for every position squad that would make Tettey an important player, and I think it was pretty much conclusive that we only wanted to give him 1 year and he's far too brittle to be relied on (although possibly capable of one last run of decent form for us until his next injury?).

I just can't help but feel like our season has been wrecked here, brain still trying to compute whether there is some blame to be apportioned, a la not signing a striker at the start of the season under Neil Doncaster. 

We've come into this season with loads of depth in centre midfield, is two backup full backs and a midfielder who can do a job at centre back sufficient investment in an area of the pitch which struggled at times last season? 

I accept the severe financial constraints we are under and the huge cost of domestic players, but we did only use 1 of our 2 domestic loan spots, and had 2 spaces in the 25. 

Fee for Semi Ajayi only believed to be £1.5m, even if he never kicked a ball and was sold on for £750k he'd have been a good insurance policy for relegation as he's shown his class in the league below.

On one hand I accept that I'm saying this with the benefit of hindsight, on the other hand you didn't need hindsight to know that Klose missed a lot of last season with a serious injury and we knew in early July that Zimmermann had a serious injury. We knew Hanley wasn't Premier League because we almost let him go to a Championship side. 

Have the club had targets in this position but just not been able to get something across the line? Does this have to go down as a big error of judgement?

The way I hope this all ends is Amadou excelling at centre back, showing he's easily worth £9m and offering some real competition to Zimmermann and Godfrey. Anything other than that and we're in serious trouble here? 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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No need to "blame" anyone.  It's just circumstance. We didn't get a CB that maybe we wanted, either for financial or availability reasons, so we went and got the next best thing - a DM who could also play CB.  So Amadou may well be the player that sees us through this difficult spell - and for that you can say well done to the club for covering that position with the player they got.

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1 minute ago, YellowRages said:

Why isn't Sean Raggett being recalled from his loan move? 

Presumably because the terms of the loan don’t allow it, or Farke doesn’t think he’s good enough, I imagine.

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1 minute ago, lake district canary said:

No need to "blame" anyone.  It's just circumstance. We didn't get a CB that maybe we wanted, either for financial or availability reasons, so we went and got the next best thing - a DM who could also play CB.  So Amadou may well be the player that sees us through this difficult spell - and for that you can say well done to the club for covering that position with the player they got.

Webber and Farke having done a superb job to get us in this league in the first place and turn around our finances is worth all the praise in the world, but that doesn't mean they are flawless and people can point out any errors of judgement as and when they make them.  

At the moment I adore Webber and Farke, but giving Russell Martin a contract extension was a bad decision, giving Russell Martin half of Wes Hoolahan's testimonial was a bad decision, and not every signing they've made has been a success. Husband and Franke go down as a disaster (but to be expected when you are trying to find diamonds amongst the rough).

Yes if Amadou is a success at centre back I'll happily praise the signing, as you say. Likewise though if it transpires that Sean Raggett would probably have done a better job I'd probably end up criticising the failure to strengthen that area of the pitch. 

I like to think I'm a pragmatist. 

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3 minutes ago, YellowRages said:

Why isn't Sean Raggett being recalled from his loan move? 

I think I'm right in saying that because of his age we wouldn't be able to add him to our 25 man squad until 1st January even if we recalled him tomorrow.

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15 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I think I'm right in saying that because of his age we wouldn't be able to add him to our 25 man squad until 1st January even if we recalled him tomorrow.

We would, because we have a couple of spaces and Raggett is homegrown. Not that he's the answer, anyway. And obviously we can't recall anyone outside of the window.

As for Amadou, I hope that he's used in his best position. I'd rather take a chance with Hanley than use Amadou as a centre back.

Edited by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man
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2 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

We would, because we have a couple of spaces and Raggett is homegrown. Not that he's the answer, anyway. And obviously we can't recall anyone outside of the window.

As for Amadou, I hope that he's used in his best position. I'd rather take a chance with Hanley than use Amadou as a centre back.

Hanley may not be fit for Man City though.

But assuming Godfrey and Hanley fit then I agree with that. 

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I'd hardly call Husband a disaster. He was brought in for not a lot, was a mediocre left back (not as bad as some make out) and then left because Jamal Lewis was too good for him to keep up with.

Franke was a disappointment but Zimmermann makes up for that one.

I still think we are missing a proper no-nonsense centre back unless Hanley can get back to a better level. To be fair to him, he looked great for us until injuries ruined his rhythm.

You look at the likes of Burnley and WBA grind out narrow wins and draws against the likes of Man U and Arsenal and I Struggle to see us being able to find that plan B. I trust we can compete vs the competition around us and there will be more days like Newcastle at home but we will need to top up our total with a few points robbed from the big boys.

I know the 2nd half at Liverpool was good but they were 4 to the good that day from foolish mistakes. We need to at least give ourselves a chance in these type games as we have the talent going forward. Chelsea was a classic example of where we cost ourselves the points with some poor defending.

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8 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

I'd hardly call Husband a disaster. He was brought in for not a lot, was a mediocre left back (not as bad as some make out) and then left because Jamal Lewis was too good for him to keep up with.

Don't forget that on top of the £1m we paid for Husband we've got to pay him a salary for 3 years, I'm guessing Blackpool will only be covering a fraction of his wages. 

I think £1m for a player who is clearly League One standard does have to go down as a bad bit of business. 

He came in for one game at the start of last season to deputise for Jamal Lewis and was so bad that he lost his place in the next game to right footed Ivo Pinto.

Sounds like chump change now but if we'd failed to go up last season it would have a black mark. 

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There's no way he was £1m. Half that at most.

We basically outgrew him. He is lower champs/ upper league 1 standard. A bad buy agreed but not a disaster like Naismith, Franke or Marshall who were pricey and came with expectations.

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24 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

We would, because we have a couple of spaces and Raggett is homegrown. Not that he's the answer, anyway. And obviously we can't recall anyone outside of the window.

As for Amadou, I hope that he's used in his best position. I'd rather take a chance with Hanley than use Amadou as a centre back.

No, he's not the answer in as much as he's probably not a premier league center back. I didn't know that we couldn't recall outside of the window though. I'm just thinking it's a fit center back at the club that's all. Let's be honest too, none of them were Premier league center backs last season. 

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I’m coming round to agreeing with the OP

 

normally 4 CBs would be enough cover but actually at the start of the season we had Zimm out for a period already and Klose was still recovering from injury and has always been injury prone. So we didn’t start the season with 4 CBs. We would be foolish to start Godfrey tomorrow if he could make his injury worse which is just an incredible position to be in.

 

Ajayi looked really impressive last season and I’m amazed if he went for just £1.5m.

 

its a fair conclusion we probably do need to look at who’s available immediately, people have mentioned Djorou? Frankly at the moment we’re at risk of starting without a regular CB on the pitch.

 

 

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3 hours ago, It's Character Forming said:

Is a fair conclusion we probably do need to look at who’s available immediately, people have mentioned Djorou? Frankly at the moment we’re at risk of starting without a regular CB on the pitch.

I suggested him. Problem is he has been without a club since January. He's only 32 and got Switzerland caps in 2018, but a bit weird that he hasnt been picked up this summer, may not have kept himself in shape or could have decided he's done enough in football? 

I don't even know if he's an option, can't sign a player who needs to be put through a full pre season to get fit. If he's been training with a former club or something to stay fit then yes. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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We still have good players on the pitch today. We still have our first choice front 4. Krul should make it, Lewis is there, we will possibly play Godfrey / Hanley double up alongside Amadou who clearly has something. Sam Byron is an experienced right back at Premiership level... that's not a disastrous situation and actually a great opportunity for him. Bring Tettey in, again, hugely experienced at this level. Suddenly we've got more experience than before on the pitch. What we then need is a real siege mentality, and for Steiperman and Buendia to step up. We really need those two to put in a top shift. It's gonna be so tough this one. I just don't want us to be humiliated. I'll be there today. I'm going to sing my heart out regardless, until the end.

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7 minutes ago, Michael Starr said:

We still have good players on the pitch today. We still have our first choice front 4. Krul should make it, Lewis is there, we will possibly play Godfrey / Hanley double up alongside Amadou who clearly has something. Sam Byron is an experienced right back at Premiership level... that's not a disastrous situation and actually a great opportunity for him. Bring Tettey in, again, hugely experienced at this level. Suddenly we've got more experience than before on the pitch. What we then need is a real siege mentality, and for Steiperman and Buendia to step up. We really need those two to put in a top shift. It's gonna be so tough this one. I just don't want us to be humiliated. I'll be there today. I'm going to sing my heart out regardless, until the end.

Totally agree. Just reading about Byram and I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do and tbh I would have rested Max anyway. Let's hope Emi really steps up today and we can get at Stones.

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Agree entirely in missing out on Ajayi would have been an astute signing for the impending return to the championship.

Also season long loans could come back to haunt us why not until January.

Zimmerman out until January if true no reason to believe not will not see until March earliest.

Good luck with signing new CB in January will need to find a gem in Div 1 at reasonable fee which will be inflated unless last six months.  But there will be no millions spent.

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I admit I was supportive of the contract improvements to keep the team together but perhaps heart ruled head in hindsight. 

However, having supported the decisions it would be churlish to criticise now, even though judgement was clouded by promotion euphoria. 

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Bet we wish we'd have kept Franke. Even if he was a flop, he was at least a recognised centre-back.

 

I think if there were mistakes made, it was not in recruitment, but perhaps in maybe rushing Klose and Zimmermann's return. That both of them were injured in their return matches suggests they werent quite ready. Easily said with hindsight though

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41 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Bet we wish we'd have kept Franke. Even if he was a flop, he was at least a recognised centre-back.

 

I think if there were mistakes made, it was not in recruitment, but perhaps in maybe rushing Klose and Zimmermann's return. That both of them were injured in their return matches suggests they werent quite ready. Easily said with hindsight though

Both were impact injuries sustained in the respective games. 

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I believe club was not much to blame !No one can keep more than 4 centre defenders because no normal player will agree to be 5th choice on club who normally will have no more than 40-41 games in this season! Man City even have only 3 for season with 65 -70 games !

Amadu can be emergency centre back but from what I see he is not the answer for regular place and today is nightmare game for him to be introduced .I hope to not be Bassong mk2 .

All in all Klose inj prone and Zimbo missed all summer was better choice we to not renew Tim deal and to add quality there but after all this already happen is many right answers of course...

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15 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Think the penny has just dropped for me, our chances of surviving this season are going to hinge largely on Amadou being a competent centre back and Godfrey + Hanley staying fit until January?

We can buy a centre back in January.  

I'm still trying to get my head around this, is this entirely bad luck or has the club made some mistakes here? 

You can say that 4 centre backs is enough but one was injured all pre-season, and it looks like most clubs in this division actually run with 5. We can't say that Amadou was brought in for that position because in a 2 for every position squad that would make Tettey an important player, and I think it was pretty much conclusive that we only wanted to give him 1 year and he's far too brittle to be relied on (although possibly capable of one last run of decent form for us until his next injury?).

I just can't help but feel like our season has been wrecked here, brain still trying to compute whether there is some blame to be apportioned, a la not signing a striker at the start of the season under Neil Doncaster. 

We've come into this season with loads of depth in centre midfield, is two backup full backs and a midfielder who can do a job at centre back sufficient investment in an area of the pitch which struggled at times last season? 

I accept the severe financial constraints we are under and the huge cost of domestic players, but we did only use 1 of our 2 domestic loan spots, and had 2 spaces in the 25. 

Fee for Semi Ajayi only believed to be £1.5m, even if he never kicked a ball and was sold on for £750k he'd have been a good insurance policy for relegation as he's shown his class in the league below.

On one hand I accept that I'm saying this with the benefit of hindsight, on the other hand you didn't need hindsight to know that Klose missed a lot of last season with a serious injury and we knew in early July that Zimmermann had a serious injury. We knew Hanley wasn't Premier League because we almost let him go to a Championship side. 

Have the club had targets in this position but just not been able to get something across the line? Does this have to go down as a big error of judgement?

The way I hope this all ends is Amadou excelling at centre back, showing he's easily worth £9m and offering some real competition to Zimmermann and Godfrey. Anything other than that and we're in serious trouble here? 

Trouble is we really need Amadou in his natural holding midfielder to sure up and help our CB, now he’s having to cover through bad luck, it’s sounds bad but shame it’s Zimmermann injured till January and not Hanley!

we did need to spend some of that money in the summer on another CB, lots on here said so and we’re now seeing why.

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15 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said:

I'd hardly call Husband a disaster. He was brought in for not a lot, was a mediocre left back (not as bad as some make out) and then left because Jamal Lewis was too good for him to keep up with.

Franke was a disappointment but Zimmermann makes up for that one.

I still think we are missing a proper no-nonsense centre back unless Hanley can get back to a better level. To be fair to him, he looked great for us until injuries ruined his rhythm.

You look at the likes of Burnley and WBA grind out narrow wins and draws against the likes of Man U and Arsenal and I Struggle to see us being able to find that plan B. I trust we can compete vs the competition around us and there will be more days like Newcastle at home but we will need to top up our total with a few points robbed from the big boys.

I know the 2nd half at Liverpool was good but they were 4 to the good that day from foolish mistakes. We need to at least give ourselves a chance in these type games as we have the talent going forward. Chelsea was a classic example of where we cost ourselves the points with some poor defending.

Unless I read it wrong I thought Farke said we would have played 3 centre backs but only had 2 fit even in pre season.

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I see elsewhere Timi Odusina could be on the bench today. I'd sooner that than some of the suggestions on this thread. 

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55 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I see elsewhere Timi Odusina could be on the bench today. I'd sooner that than some of the suggestions on this thread. 

I'd probably rather have Odusina in the team than Lewis at centre back (if Godfrey doesn't make it). At least it keeps an important player in his best position rather than wedging square pegs into round holes.

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1 hour ago, Indy said:

We did need to spend some of that money in the summer on another CB, lots on here said so and we’re now seeing why.

We don't know whether the club just had difficulty landing targets though. We already know we were priced out of the likes of Mings and Webster. It does look like a failure, but if they tried hard to land one then so be it. If they concluded they didn't need one then that's a different story. 

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