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USAcanary

Did we make hardly anything from the Ashston transfer?????

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All I keep reading by the KTF brigade is how Worthy made good business on  Dean Ashton.

Obviously I am using the numbers reported in the press

WH payed 7 million.

We payed Crewe 3 million

That leaves 4 million of which we have to pay Crewe 800K (20% sell on)

That leaves 3.2 million

Its been reported Deano made 400K

That leaves 2.8 million

It was reported that Deano would have made 150K in JAN Alone in wages and bonuses

From that we can assume that Deano made at "least" 1.5 Million a year (probably a lot more)

That leaves 1.3 million

So adding in agents fees (its already been reported we blew 500K on agents, assuming the Ashton transfer from crewe was a big part of that)

Then agent fees going to WH (which havn`t been reported yet)

It looks like we hardly made anything on Dean Ashton being here.

It looks like we got screwed by both Crewe and Deano on the one sided contract.

Please feel free to dispute those numbers.

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An interesting piece of double entry book keeping, why take the players wages out of the transfer money, they had to be paid. You are also using money paid that was involved in other deals when including the agents fees.

I think the IRS would be interested in you.

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Even if your hypothesising was correct (I don''t think agents'' fees are included in a transfer fee, they are a seperate entity - also I believe that the buying club pays the lion''s share of the agents'' fees), we got an excellent striker who played well for us, scored a few goals for us in the Premiership and several in the Championship (by far our top scorer) FOR FREE.  Including Wages. 

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Your Ashton wages guess is way out. The 150k he waived included 30k from his sign on bonus, januiary wages, outstanding bonuses AND some remainder of his signing bonus from his new contract. Plus, why count the wages? They will have been budgeted for already! And why count only the profit we made? Again, the original transfer fee will have been budgeted for, so we can spend it again bar the amount which was outstanding (was it 300k?). Whether we will or not remains to be seen.

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Another clear example of the muddled headed thinking of the anti club brigade. Make up some figures, add a bit of wild speculation then use that as a basis for yet another whinge about the club.

It might be a bit of a distance from the US but I do wish the ragbag of whiners and bleaters would head off down the A140 where their eternal snivelling would be most welcome - even more welcome for som,e as I suspect that is where a fair few come from.

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we did do a couple of things, we made ourselves look like a complete bunch of whatevers in allowing a player to have an incentive to leave, and we then decided to shoot ourselves in the foot by declaring it before the close of the window. how many agents will now try exactly the same thing ?

can i just say MadDan that where you head is must be total darkness. to say that people are anti-club is the most rediculous thing i have read on this board. Absolutely no-one is anti-club, its the personnel of the club that people argue and debate over.

At the end of the day we write what we do because we love the club and want to see the best for it. Damn Muppett.

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So as self appointed spokesperson for the ragbag of whingers and whiners Rossi you claim to want the best for the club.

Please explain how posting up ill informed nonsense about the club "... trying to make Dean Ashton look like the bad bloke " is in anyway helping ? Further making absurd remarks about us being made to look ''fools'' does not help either.

Your previous attempt to stir the pot by posting up guff about Francis joining us on loan doesn''t sound like the words of someone who loves the club either.

The problem with posters like yourself and the other anti club ranters is that no lie, distortion or cobbled together bit of misinformation is unworthy of being used to attack the club with. How many threads on this board are based around the sort of old tosh that has the club lying, lacking ambition or acting incompentley. If you feel this is the best way to express your ''love'' for the club then I''m sure we would all be better off with the likes of your sort heading down the A140.

No fan is trying to claim that all is as we would have expected or wanted in August. But that is football. That is what happens. It''s cyclical. It comes and it goes. What shouldn''t come and go is the support of the true fans. That doesn''t - for true fans anyway.

So why don''t you stop making up stuff to attack the club with ? Stop the fabrications and distortions and actually see the greater picture. We''ve been here before and will be again. Just as it is for over 80% of other clubs who are not in the top few in their division.

That''s not keeping the faith as your lot would have - more a keeping of a sense of reality and a sense of perspective.

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is in anyway helping?

 

Why is this board about helping?  Its a forum to talk about issues affecting the club for people who care about the club; its a virtual pub where we can share woes and opinions without and grandiose ideas that our views will change anything other than ease our own stress levels or share our joy. 

 

 

 

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MadDancaster / George Galloway

Firstly you seem unable to accept that i have a different opinion, instead you would rather see me disappear south of the border with my ''true fan'' tail between my legs.

IMO the club have tried to turn Ashton from a Saint into a sinner - I''m not saying it''s correct, but it''s the way that i feel. The only people that know the answer to that are senior people at Carrow Rd, unless you are one of those.

I could equally argue that your satisfaction with everything NCFC is not showing love for your club, that wouldn''t  make me right or wrong..

I find it difficult to accept "The problem with posters like yourself and the other anti club ranters is that no lie, distortion or cobbled together bit of misinformation is unworthy of being used to attack the club with." Sorry, i believe the distortion piece to be exactly what the club did over the sale. As i have said before a simple " we''ve received had a bid, we cannot explain the details of that bid, but the fans of NCFC will be informed as soon as possible" would have had the same effect without leading us in a different direction and causing ill feeling, especially in light of the fact that the mail had reported it spot on on friday.

One of the reasons why we find ourselves in this position is exactly because of the things you mention when you said " How many threads on this board are based around the sort of old tosh that has the club lying, lacking ambition or acting incompentley"

You also said "No fan is trying to claim that all is as we would have expected or wanted in August." WHY IS THAT THEN???

When, not if, there is some sort of demo, I''ll expect to see you there with your "I love the club"placard in order to try and balance things up.

Lastly, i feel that you are 100% wrong by posting that people are anti-club because they may question certain things.

 

 

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Well Rossi, if there is a protest, I''m sure MadDan will be in attendance.......He''ll be stood next to Chairman Mumbles and Co, without his ''Worthy In/ I luvs the Club'' placard; quivering, whilst they peer worringly and confused out of the gap of a closed set of  curtains upstairs and above the entrance to the City Stand.........allegedly!

"How and why has it come to this?" they''d all say in unison......

G''URN MadDan! GIVE US ''ELL!......... ;~) Mello does not deny he is: Anti Club, Anti Worthy, Anti Football, Anti Pasti and, I wasn''t too keen on my Auntie Joan because she had a moustache! OTBC ;~)

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I took all those numbers from official reports at Canariesworld and from articles from the front page of the Pinkun.

Those who are saying they are rubbish please point out "EXACTLY" which bit is rubbish.

Unless the club and the reporters from the Pinkun are liars?

The point is.............. how much ACTUAL profit did we make on Ashton on both sides of the deal

To not count wages and bonuses is stupid. The club PAID those out.

To not count ANY expences is stupid when looking at overall "profit"

Was that monopoly money? Was Deanos 400K money the club should count as profit even if it went in his pocket.

Should we count Crewes cut as "profit"

I am not saying we did not make any money on Ashton but to those KTF`s who keep saying we made a 4 M profit it`s absolute BS.

 

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[quote user="USAcanary"]I am not saying we did not make any money on Ashton but to those KTF`s who keep saying we made a 4 M profit it`s absolute BS.[/quote]Can we drop the "KTF" nonsense please? It''s very childish, like two silly gangs in the playground. Grow up.

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As an Accountant I do feel there is rather a lot of mistaken accounting in here, along with made up figures (eg "we can assume he made at least £1.5m a season" - this is based on guesswork, nothing more), but I can''t really be bothered to go into it - I do this sort of stuff at work all day and am not going to at home! 

The fact is that cash in less cash out on the purchase and sale = a healthy profit, whatver Dean or Crewe may have taken.  Even £1m profit would be pretty good going in one year, but overall c£4m clear profit has been made, of which we keep the vast majority.  There really is no need to look any further into it, to bring his wages into it is to bring in an irrelevance in terms of his purchase and sale - indeed, turning the argument on its head one could easily argue that as we have not had to pay the rest of  his contract - costs we were committed to - we could add that into the profit made figure.  Why not? - it is certainly a cash saving for the club at the very least, and can be added back into the Playing budget.  This, of course, is as incorrect as including his wages against the profit made on his sale.

No, the fact remains that the deal made the Club a good return in one year, by anyone''s standards.

 

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I think the Pinkun should investigate all the expences of both sides of the Ashton transfer and figure out exactly how much profit was made?

Did it really take "silly money" for him to go.

Crewe made 3.8 million minus Deans wages in his time there.

We made a small fraction of that.

Yes, great buisness.

Worthy Out.

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[quote user="Branston Pickle"]

As an Accountant I do feel there is rather a lot of mistaken accounting in here, along with made up figures (eg "we can assume he made at least £1.5m a season" - this is based on guesswork, nothing more), but I can''t really be bothered to go into it - I do this sort of stuff at work all day and am not going to at home! 

The fact is that cash in less cash out on the purchase and sale = a healthy profit, whatver Dean or Crewe may have taken.  Even £1m profit would be pretty good going in one year, but overall c£4m clear profit has been made, of which we keep the vast majority.  There really is no need to look any further into it, to bring his wages into it is to bring in an irrelevance in terms of his purchase and sale - indeed, turning the argument on its head one could easily argue that as we have not had to pay the rest of  his contract - costs we were committed to - we could add that into the profit made figure.  Why not? - it is certainly a cash saving for the club at the very least, and can be added back into the Playing budget.  This, of course, is as incorrect as including his wages against the profit made on his sale.

No, the fact remains that the deal made the Club a good return in one year, by anyone''s standards.

 

[/quote]

This reply is just so wrong and misleading. Lets examine bit by bit.

As an Accountant I do feel there is rather a lot of mistaken accounting in here, along with made up figures (eg "we can assume he made at least £1.5m a season" - this is based on guesswork, nothing more), but I can''t really be bothered to go into it - I do this sort of stuff at work all day and am not going to at home!

The figure was based on the 150K that Neil Doncaster reported as Ashtons JAN wages and bonues , 10 months would be 1.5 million.

Now it could be as much as 2 million or as little as 1 million but obviously its somewhere in that region. Sorry I don`t know the exact penny.

Maybe Dean got paid nothing the last 12 months. That would make it look better.

The fact is that cash in less cash out on the purchase and sale = a healthy profit, whatver Dean or Crewe may have taken.  Even £1m profit would be pretty good going in one year, but overall c£4m clear profit has been made, of which we keep the vast majority.  There really is no need to look any further into it,

4 million-1.2million(Crewe and Deanos cut) = 2.8 million

But even excluding Deans wages (1-2 M) what were the agents fees on BOTH sides of the transaction?

Its already been reported that we paid agents 500K of which we can assume the vast majority of that is the DA transfer (3million was bigger than all other transactions combined)

Then we have agents fees for a MUCH bigger transfer (7M) which has not been reported yet.

There is no creative accounting here. The numbers are all numbers I pulled from Canariesworld and the Pinkun. 

I never said we did not make a profit, I just said its much smaller than most are reporting.

I was always led to believe in accounting that profit = income minus expences

(maybe wages and agents fees are not real and the money is fake.)

 

 

 

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I think you''ve forgotton some expenses.

What about all the food he ate at the training ground?

What about all the money spent on buying and then washing his kit?

What about cleaning his boots?

What about all the high energy drink he had during matches?

What about the cost of transporting him to away games?

What about the hotel bills for away games?

 

 

 

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" Crewe made 3.8 million minus Deans wages in his time there.

We made a small fraction of that "

errr no, Crewe already had that asset. They merely realised it''s value through the sale. It happens. See Sutton, Eadie, Johnson, Bellamy.

We bought and sold that asset in a short space of time making a healthy profit.

To have more than doubled the value of that asset in twelve months is exceptionally good business when you recognise that we paid a higher fee than what was the value in 2005 and that he has done little in the way of adding to his value since he came here.

But then I''m sure that, as with the anti club brigade, it would be far better in the club was ran in the same fashion as our third world neighbours.

George, Le Pen, Sereni, Bent, Herriedson (!) for around £15m with less than a million coming back.

Ooh I forgot, the ever ambitious binners managed to arrange two friendlies with Lazio. Perhaps the anti club brigade might care to tell me how much those games have made.

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[quote user="A load of squit"]

I think you''ve forgotton some expenses.

What about all the food he ate at the training ground?

What about all the money spent on buying and then washing his kit?

What about cleaning his boots?

What about all the high energy drink he had during matches?

What about the cost of transporting him to away games?

What about the hotel bills for away games?

 

 

 

[/quote]

I notice you are not denying any of the facts I presented.

You counter my facts and numbers with stupidity.

Congrats on losing the argument.

 

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" I would still be interested in getting the Pinkun to investigate exactly how much we made from the deal "

Christ it gets worse by the minute.

Try going into Walmart and asking them how much they made on your recent purchase of Pimplifred spot cream.

Contact your local newspaer and request that someone from their business section contact the last burger outlet you visited and launch an investigation into how much their made from your happy meal (plastic dinosaur included).

Better still next time you are in our fair City allow me to take to one of my local hosteleries where you can insist on being told the profit made from your half of shandy. It won''t be pretty but it will certainly be funny.

You are a customer, you have to ''right'' to know

anything about such matters.

But you knew that before you posted. You knew that what you were doing was simply a matter of trying to cause bad feeling towards the club.

A sad, snide, little cheap shot to somehow drag Norwich City towards the level of our third world neighbours.

You''ll be told enough next week so till then I suggest you button it as far as mischief making is concerned.

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[quote user="USAcanary"][quote user="Branston Pickle"]

[/quote]

This reply is just so wrong and misleading. Lets examine bit by bit.

As an Accountant I do feel there is rather a lot of mistaken accounting in here, along with made up figures (eg "we can assume he made at least £1.5m a season" - this is based on guesswork, nothing more), but I can''t really be bothered to go into it - I do this sort of stuff at work all day and am not going to at home!

The figure was based on the 150K that Neil Doncaster reported as Ashtons JAN wages and bonues , 10 months would be 1.5 million.

Now it could be as much as 2 million or as little as 1 million but obviously its somewhere in that region. Sorry I don`t know the exact penny.

Maybe Dean got paid nothing the last 12 months. That would make it look better.

The fact is that cash in less cash out on the purchase and sale = a healthy profit, whatver Dean or Crewe may have taken.  Even £1m profit would be pretty good going in one year, but overall c£4m clear profit has been made, of which we keep the vast majority.  There really is no need to look any further into it,

4 million-1.2million(Crewe and Deanos cut) = 2.8 million

But even excluding Deans wages (1-2 M) what were the agents fees on BOTH sides of the transaction?

Its already been reported that we paid agents 500K of which we can assume the vast majority of that is the DA transfer (3million was bigger than all other transactions combined)

Then we have agents fees for a MUCH bigger transfer (7M) which has not been reported yet.

There is no creative accounting here. The numbers are all numbers I pulled from Canariesworld and the Pinkun. 

I never said we did not make a profit, I just said its much smaller than most are reporting.

I was always led to believe in accounting that profit = income minus expences

(maybe wages and agents fees are not real and the money is fake.)

[/quote]

Sorry, re-posting stuff doesn''t suddenly make it right.  I can see what you are trying to say but you are combining many different items and getting them muddled.  Your argument could be used when talking about any transfer, of any player, anywhere - why just pick on this one?  

For instance, I am sure Hucks has earned what most would consider to be a small fortune from the club in his time here.   If we decided to sell him, these costs wouldn''t really have any relevance on whether we made a profit or loss in terms of transfer fees.

The fact is that there are a wealth of considerations that come into play in talking about finances.  One thing you do seem to have missed is that we now save a huge pile of cash from wages we don''t now have to pay Ashton.  If you are determined to take Ashton''s salary into consideration in your attempt to downgrade the money made from his sale (and incidentally, he was only on this higher rate for a few months), you should probably take this cash saving into consideration too.  Given he had 2+ years to run on his contract we will save c£2m+ in cash on his wages, which is c£1m more than we paid him - in your world surely this increases the profit made?

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