The day the spectacles fell off

[king canary 7,558]

45 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I don't believe the much pined for halfway house really exists.

You don't believe there is something in between our current way of playing and how we played under Hughton?

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,421]

I honestly think I saw a different game at West Ham than several on here. I didn't see a dire performance . I saw a decent start to the game , playing the sort of football we played last year. Zimbo then got clobbered , failed to defend as well as he had up until that point because he was injured  (has any one mentioned the absolutely brilliant block that saw a furious love in between him and Krull?) and we were one down largely against the run of play.

Second half - we struggled to find the space and even then a better ball in from Max to an unmarked Todd and it would have been 1.1

We murdered Newcastle , did OK at Liverpool once they took the foot off the gas somewhat and scored two good goals against Chelsea. As I've said before I was more disappointed in losing to FLC , who I am convinced will be looking for a new manager before the season is out.

We need a reality check here people. Forget the "we are down" routine (apparently it could have been 8.0 according to one poster - I assume that is in a parallel universe) , and forget the Guff about how we have a significant chance against Man City (which we don't) and somewhere in the middle is where we are.

Mind you if Zimbo is out for any length of time then we are in the guano. But let's see first.

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Graham Paddons Beard

[nutty nigel 7,506]

4 minutes ago, king canary said:

You don't believe there is something in between our current way of playing and how we played under Hughton?

No.

What do you suggest is is?

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,421]

Oh and one other thing. All this we can't defend stuff.

Last season, away from home , where we set up differently on many occasions, we conceded 23 goals.

I think I'm right in thinking no other side conceded less away from home. Sheffield Utd were the next most successful with 24 as did Mr Boring Pulis at Boro. What's that I hear you cry? We conceded less away from home than Pulis? Who set up to park the bus (and got sacked because of it?)  

We can defend and proved it last year.

[hogesar 9,606]

I feel like if this perfect half-way house exists everyone would be doing it. Then would it be perfect any more? Would every game finish 0-0?

We played a very certain style, very offensive and risk-taking that ended up with us winning the league against everyone's expectations. We lose against West Ham and suddenly we now want some bland half-way house football that no-one has actually defined?

To me, thats weak and as i've said elsewhere, Farke and Co seem far more strong-minded and willed than a selection of our fanbase.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

44 minutes ago, Jobsworth Canary said:

Hughton new how to keep a clean sheet 

His wife insisted!

Edited September 2, 2019 by wcorkcanary

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,773]

In terms of style, of course the halfway house exists. Hughton played/plays a defensive style of football, whereas Farke plays an offensive one. The 'halfway house' is where you don't prioritise one over the other and you aim to play a balanced style of play.

Is it perfect? No. Does it guarantee results? No. Just as attacking football doesn't guarantee success by outscoring the opposition and nor does defensive by keeping it tight. 

[nutty nigel 7,506]

Last season Man City beat Brighton 2-0 in the league. This season they beat them 4-0. Pep complimented the new manager : -

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-city-pep-guardiola-brighton-16846285

But really it's all there in a nutshell. Pep would rather play this side than Hughton's. The Brighton fans probably would too. Until they look like getting relegated. Then they'll pine for Hughton.

[nutty nigel 7,506]

3 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

In terms of style, of course the halfway house exists. Hughton played/plays a defensive style of football, whereas Farke plays an offensive one. The 'halfway house' is where you don't prioritise one over the other and you aim to play a balanced style of play.

Is it perfect? No. Does it guarantee results? No. Just as attacking football doesn't guarantee success by outscoring the opposition and nor does defensive by keeping it tight. 

So how does it work? Unless you play different players for different priorities.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,773]

13 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

So how does it work? Unless you play different players for different priorities.

I'd say that in the current Premier League, outside of the top six who generally play attacking football because they're in a league of their own, you have:

Attacking: Leicester, West Ham, Bournemouth, Norwich 

Balanced: Everton, Wolves, Southampton, Watford, Brighton, Villa, Sheffield Utd.

Defensive: Palace, Newcastle, Burnley.

Of course, some may make a case for teams being in the wrong section, but that's just a list off the top of my head without analysing the tactics they've used this season.

Of the teams I put in the balanced section, it's hard to label any of them as overly attacking or defensive, so balanced football works by adopting the tactics that those team use, i.e. being neither gung-ho nor 'park the bus', and not priorirising one over the other.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

14 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

So how does it work? Unless you play different players for different priorities.

Thats the thing, with our current players, putting the brakes on our attacking style would have us playing like we did the season before last, possession , yes, but little attacking intent, and the way you get pressed in this league i cant see that possession for possessions sake will work. Option 2 is to sit and then counter attack, not sure that would work either. We have adopted a style of play that may take more years yet to fully implement at a standard which sees us holding our own in this League, this should come by slowly replacing existing players with better ones and improving those we have that are able to improve sufficiently. I really cant see any other way under the current setup.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,773]

May I add, by the way, that I'm not advocating a change in style. I'm very much in favour of continuing the attacking style for the time being at least. I'm just pointing out that there are many, many different tactical systems that exist within football other than just 'Farkeball' and 'Hughton****e'.

[nutty nigel 7,506]

11 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I'd say that in the current Premier League, outside of the top six who generally play attacking football because they're in a league of their own, you have:

Attacking: Leicester, West Ham, Bournemouth, Norwich 

Balanced: Everton, Wolves, Southampton, Watford, Brighton, Villa, Sheffield Utd.

Defensive: Palace, Newcastle, Burnley.

Of course, some may make a case for teams being in the wrong section, but that's just a list off the top of my head without analysing the tactics they've used this season.

Of the teams I put in the balanced section, it's hard to label any of them as overly attacking or defensive, so balanced football works by adopting the tactics that those team use, i.e. being neither gung-ho nor 'park the bus', and not priorirising one over the other.

It's interesting that you think Brighton are balanced and yet we're not. But I guess balance, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

Corkyo nails it for me. When Webber appointed Farke the style was set. Everything we have done, transfers, training, academy teams, are moulded around the style we play. If we suddenly try and change that we will be totally unsuited and lose even more.

But it's not going to happen. Webber didn't lose his bottle under the "Farke sort it out" pressure a year ago so he's not likely to cave in after 4 PL games. I expect his advice would be to go watch someone else....

[nutty nigel 7,506]

4 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

May I add, by the way, that I'm not advocating a change in style. I'm very much in favour of continuing the attacking style for the time being at least. I'm just pointing out that there are many, many different tactical systems that exist within football other than just 'Farkeball' and 'Hughton****e'.

I know buddy👍

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,773]

1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

When Webber appointed Farke the style was set. Everything we have done, transfers, training, academy teams, are moulded around the style we play. If we suddenly try and change that we will be totally unsuited and lose even more.

But it's not going to happen. Webber didn't lose his bottle under the "Farke sort it out" pressure a year ago so he's not likely to cave in after 4 PL games. I expect his advice would be to go watch someone else....

Agreed, that's the main reason why we shouldn't change. 

 

[Peanuts 150]

After watching Arsenal vs Spurs yesterday I'm feeling a little more optimistic about our defending. For the first Spurs goal the Arsenal defence were all over the shop and the foul by Xhaka (£35 million) on Son for the penalty was so late it was almost off screen on the slow motion replay.

[Aggy 747]

6 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

The league is fairly inconsistent at the moment. Just look at the amount of points dropped already by everyone except Liverpool.

I am guessing that the Crawley defeat is the reason for the depression at the moment. Yes that was poor. And I didn't see Saturday's game so can't comment but understand there were a few too many performing poorly. But our style is one that can break down easily unfortunately is a cog or two is missing.

Let us hope the break does us the power of good and doesn't for others.

Agreed. On a thread a few weeks ago, I said that 4 points from the first five games would be a good return and 3 would be about “par”. We’ve got the three. I think if we had beaten Crawley by a few nobody would really have been too bothered after the West Ham game - written off as a bad day at the office. 

[Aggy 747]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

You don't believe there is something in between our current way of playing and how we played under Hughton?

The problem against West Ham wasn’t that we were going all out attack. If we’d hit the post four times, seen the keeper pull off outstanding save after save and conceded two on the break, then it would have been highly unfortunate but nobody would have grumbled. The goals we conceded against Liverpool weren’t because we had 10 men up front. Chelsea - I thought we were slightly “naive” to let them have as much room on the break for the third at that stage of the game, but generally we weren’t too open. 

In each of those games we’ve conceded goals largely down to individual errors or lapses in concentration. Chelsea - Aarons loses Abrahams, Aarons lets Mount get in behind him, Krul retracts his arm instead of diving full stretch. Liverpool are a bit good but Hanley’s own goal, Salah’s second (I think) where it was like pinball in the box. West Ham - Aarons loses his man/Godfrey caught wrong side, Cantwell gives the ball away and we pass up about four opportunities to get a foot in and/or get rid. For West Ham’s first, we had 10 men behind the ball when they got it in their half, for their second I think there are 6 or 7 defenders in the box.

Have to say against West Ham there was a lot of jogging in the midfield - put it down to tiredness rather than something more worrying, but we didn’t concede because we were being too attacking.

It’s easy to say we will concede because we are so attacking. But for me, it’s much more about individual errors, a lack of concentration and possibly just a lack of defensive ability.

[JF 694]

I don’t see many people saying we should change our attacking style, just that we really need to tighten up at the back and limit the numbers of clear scoring opportunities. That may just be a simple change in personnel on the pitch, maybe a simple case of getting Zimmerman back in and fit and bringing in Amadou

[SwindonCanary 455]

I'm hoping it like the Championship and a true picture does not happen until after 10 games, thing will look a lot better by then.

Edited September 2, 2019 by SwindonCanary