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*****Official match thread v West Ham*****

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We need to learn quickly and be honest about performances. Emi hasn't really shown PL class and Marco neither. Cantwell also flatters to deceive today.

I think a shake up due after the break. 

Oddly I had fewer worries about the defence. Amadou did Ok. Trybull and Leitner too.

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3 minutes ago, paul moy said:

With luck we could have sneaked a draw with the Cantwell header and Drmic post but it would have been an injustice.

Think it would have been ruled out by Var tbh. When the ball was played out wide it looked a way off side

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6 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Yep, much physically stronger than us in nearly,if not all departments. Our players were being outmuscled all the time. Wasn't a great watch , they were pretty good i thought, felipe anderson in particular.

I think to lose like that and only receive one yellow tells a bit of a story.

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3 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

I'm just clinging onto the fact we improved drastically after August in the last two seasons so hopefully we'll do it again. That game was shocking, like a Middleweight against a Heavyweight or a youth team playing against a senior team. 

 

We need to be more dynamic in our play as well, like I said earlier in the thread, switch the play sometimes when we're being crowded out, play quicker on the counter, defend in numbers when the opposition is on top etc We don't have to compromise our principals by adding a bit more to our playing style. The midfield makeup also has to change, we're just too small and lightweight. Tettey for Trybull and Vrancic for Buendia for me next week, Drmic playing Stiepermanns role and let's try to keep the scoreline respectable to take some confidence going into Burnley

 

     

Agree

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My main worry is the lack of plan b. We were too easy to beat today. West Ham, stuck 8 behind the ball and then countered us. We had no answer to it and were slow and pedestrian all game. Hopefully just a blip today, but we have to use the ball much better going forward. 

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On the positive side, I thought Amadou looked solid. Hopefully we can get Zimbo back next game, push Amadou up to CDM and give Leitner a bit more room to push forward. Maybe make room for Vrancic too.

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Just now, Nuff Said said:

On the positive side, I thought Amadou looked solid. Hopefully we can get Zimbo back next game, push Amadou up to CDM and give Leitner a bit more room to push forward. Maybe make room for Vrancic too.

Im not sure Zimbo was fit going into that game, the challenge on him didnt look that bad but seems to have knocked him for six.

I guess Farke had little choice but to risk him.

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1 minute ago, Nuff Said said:

On the positive side, I thought Amadou looked solid. Hopefully we can get Zimbo back next game, push Amadou up to CDM and give Leitner a bit more room to push forward. Maybe make room for Vrancic too.

Vrancic definitely. Emi did very little and he hasn't really got going yet this season. It's too much of a luxury to play Cantwell and Buendia away from home imo. Something has to give. 

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We'd be mad to try to take on Man City. 

Perhaps we should focus on defending in that game, dispense with overlapping fullbacks or we'll get ripped apart.

 

Perhaps give Byram a run at right-back, maybe if Zimbo is back try playing Amadou as the 3rd CB.

I dont think we should be changing ow we play, but Man City is an exception and a massive tonking wont do anything for confidence. A battling defensive performance however we could take something from

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West Ham played well today, their movement and passing were excellent and their back line denied us any space round the box. All a bit slow from City today and the final threaded pass or cross was just not there.

Going to be a tough season if all the opposition play like they did today.

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Im not sure Zimbo was fit going into that game, the challenge on him didnt look that bad but seems to have knocked him for six.

I guess Farke had little choice but to risk him.

I said on the Hanley thread Zimbo shouldn't be risked if not 100% fit and I was right. Hopefully just a temporary setback but he was always going to get roughed up by Haller as that's his game. Amadou looks ok at CH, as Farke actually pointed out after the Crawley game,  so I find it odd he wasn't selected at CH.

I don't think Farke has been great with his selections this week but then again a few players have let him down.

Edited by Capt. Pants

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Leaving aside off days and poor individual performances there are two issues that continue to be a problem for us:

1. Defensive organisation. This isn't just a matter of personnel or the way we attack and it's also nothing new. If players are continually out of position, not tracking runners or getting caught the wrong side it's not enough for Farke to keep blaming goals on individual errors or bad luck. He needs to take responsibility and get us better organised without the ball.

2. Physicality. Our players look small and slight, particularly Trybull and Leitner together in midfield. All the opposition so far have looked bigger, stronger and more powerful than us. I'm not sure what the answer is, but hopefully Amadou can come into midfield and give us a bit more physical presence.

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26 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I said on the Hanley thread Zimbo shouldn't be risked if not 100% fit and I was right. Hopefully just a temporary setback but he was always going to get roughed up by Haller as that's his game. Amadou looks ok at CH, as Farke actually pointed out after the Crawley game,  so I find it odd he wasn't selected at CH.

I don't think Farke has been great with his selections this week but then again a few players have let him down.

I don't think it would matter how fit a player is if the opposition are out to cripple him.

 

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West Ham won most of the individual battles all over the pitch . Players like Max are now playing against players with pace to match their own. West Ham closed down space , pressed and hurried us and Temmu didn’t get much joy. 

 

I think today was the real “welcome to the premier league” game . Krul was the MOM for us by miles. 

And if I could be bothered I would now give a 30 minute lecture on the strangeness of the  stadium . Last time I was there was 2012 watching Jess  Ennis . 

 

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I am getting concerned after today and Crawley about our lack of depth and options on the bench. When we were 1-0 down I'm not sure I'd look at any of the options as game changes or players that could bring something different (apart from maybe Drmic).

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People have commented on Emi performance this season being under par. I agree with this but want to add that for me he is not attacking and winning the ball as he did in the Championship. He was often like a man possessed closing down anyone in range and often taking the ball, if not the player lol

In the EPL it's as if he is showing far too much respect when not on the ball, instead of getting stuck in. 

We need more bite in midfield and that's why i would drop Emi and bring in the excellent Mario. He has great vision and wins more tackles than i have seen anyone do. 

I agree that as a team we are small. That was evident v Chelsea last week, as they were stronger and bigger than us. 

Daniel needs to re-assess the starting 11 and game plan during the international break. We need to change our game plan or it will be a very long season. 

I have faith in DF and the players, we just need to adjust to this higher level of play. 

Edited by Harry53

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1 hour ago, Harry53 said:

People have commented on Emi performance this season being under par. I agree with this but want to add that for me he is not attacking and winning the ball as he did in the Championship. He was often like a man possessed closing down anyone in range and often taking the ball, if not the player lol

In the EPL it's as if he is showing far too much respect when not on the ball, instead of getting stuck in. 

We need more bite in midfield and that's why i would drop Emi and bring in the excellent Mario. He has great vision and wins more tackles than i have seen anyone do. 

I agree that as a team we are small. That was evident v Chelsea last week, as they were stronger and bigger than us. 

Daniel needs to re-assess the starting 11 and game plan during the international break. We need to change our game plan or it will be a very long season. 

I have faith in DF and the players, we just need to adjust to this higher level of play. 

Yesterday Emi looked to be trying to find pockets of space only to be closed down when he was in possession. I’ve watched every minute of every game this year so far and it has been the same each time . 

You have to remember where he is from. A second division Spanish player then a second division English league player . At times last year his natural ability got him through . This year he is matched by higher levels of skill And pace . Also I think he is still targeted as a danger man. Yesterday he was closed down by four players at times and tried to trick his way out with a back heel. Didn’t work. 

West Ham will finish mid table . Bizarrely I think we missed an opportunity against Chelsea - I think our errors and their individual skills scored them three goals . I don’t think Lampard will be a success . 

All of our players found yesterday just what a tough league this is. Pace and physical size is hugely stepped up. Mostly the best players in the world are here . I think Farke and the coaches will start to develop other options and shapes. Yesterday we played through the full backs. West Ham we’re happy for us to do so. 

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Grandaughter's Wedding Saturday so didn't see anything of the match.

But it is noticeable that despite people's apparent acceptance that we will take some beatings this season but should continue with our style, there are numerous posts calling for change already.

I just ask why? We will play poorly at times and we will play well at times. Its just getting it that we win when we play well. Not easy in this league but something that can be achieved. 

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18 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

Was there a round of applause for Bury ? Sky and motd conveniently ignored it

In the 134th minute I think, for each year they'd been in existence. 🤣

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4 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Grandaughter's Wedding Saturday so didn't see anything of the match.

But it is noticeable that despite people's apparent acceptance that we will take some beatings this season but should continue with our style, there are numerous posts calling for change already.

I just ask why? We will play poorly at times and we will play well at times. Its just getting it that we win when we play well. Not easy in this league but something that can be achieved. 

Based on last seasons stats and very little change in our line up in this higher league, it is sensible to expect that our goals against average would increase and our goals for average would decrease. In real terms it means what 3-2 wins last year are likely to be 3-2 defeats this year.

I am expecting it to therefore be difficult to stay up but certainly not impossible. Conceeding over two goals a game however makes it very very unlikely.

 

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10 hours ago, ricardo said:

Based on last seasons stats and very little change in our line up in this higher league, it is sensible to expect that our goals against average would increase and our goals for average would decrease. In real terms it means what 3-2 wins last year are likely to be 3-2 defeats this year.

I am expecting it to therefore be difficult to stay up but certainly not impossible. Conceeding over two goals a game however makes it very very unlikely.

 

..... which is exactly what Webber said after we won the title,  no one was complaining then.

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