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Drazen Muzinic

There but for the the grace of God...

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...https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49470865

Bolton on the brink.

Makes you feel grateful for sensible (and yes, sometimes prudent) owners and puts into perspective some of the whiny problems we get on here.

The effect on the town and area will be massive if this comes to pass. How would you feel if this were us?

 

Also, on a level akin to the lack of class shown by the Binners at the weekend, it's worth pointing out their 'triffic' win is likely to be expunged.

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Seriously concerned that a football Club, possibly two could go out of business. 

Easy for the likes of Pete to continually whine about our owners, a quick look around shows where we could be. 

As for that lot down the road, the less said the better. 

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No surprise to see the state of the two clubs in L1, we all know such situations have been coming for a couple of decades or so now, such is the enormous financial chasm between those with seemingly endless money pits and those that do not. Yes, its heartbreaking for fans of long held and traditional league members to see their club in such a state of affairs, but for every Bury and Bolton there is a Fleetwood or Forest Green waiting to try their hand.

How would i feel if it was us?...we have sailed close to the wind a couple times recently, most noticeably a decade ago of course. In some ways, to keep City on a stable financial position has been even harder than for a club such as Bury, because probably the most difficult thing for a Board and its financial division to get to grips with is a promotion and / or a relegation between the Prem and the Championship, such is the massive increase / decrease in finances associated with such a move in either direction. For any self sustaining modelled club to go thru it once is taxing, but Norwich have done it many times over the last two decades. That is why ive always said our club is unique in that regard, no other club of the 92 come close to what we have been thru, in Delia and Michael we have the best...believe me...the best.

Not necessary to express how i would feel if we were in Bury or Boltons position, i already used a word above, heartbreaking. That lot down the road?...well just think, even in their pitiful, ramshackle state theyre in right now, where they would be without their Mr. Evans annual 5 or 6 million input?....exactly.

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50 minutes ago, Essjayess said:

where they would be without their Mr. Evans annual 5 or 6 million input?

Whch shows they're living beyond their means - something they've been doing for the last twenty years.

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I am stuck between 2 places on all this.

We lived within our means and the board did not bend to the pressures of ‘ living the dream ‘. Others have lived outside their means and finished in these situations. I don’t suppose there were many standing up saying we shouldn’t be spending all that money.

My thoughts are that if football and other fans keep saving these clubs there is no motivation for the next club or the next set of fans not to ‘ live the dream ‘.

Should we play fair whilst others don’t. Not sure which way it should be.

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It may take one or two famous clubs going to the wall before people realise that not everyone can live the dream.

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Those prudent and careful owners who managed to put us in the situation at the end of the season before last that the sale of Addison managed apparently to avoid administration.  Saved by Webber and Farke who can describe as prudent not the sainted Delia who with the Board managed as Webber put it pi55ed previous PL riches up the wall.   Just hope Webber continues to weave his magic until our next financial calamity.  Sure as eggs is eggs this is inevitable.

Splendid Rush forever the optimist and apologist poor deluded soul.    

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That doeasn't make sense Pete. The owners can't be both responsible for the financial mess but not reponsible for trying to sort the mess out. Webber didn't just turn up out of the blue.

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26 minutes ago, pete said:

Those prudent and careful owners who managed to put us in the situation at the end of the season before last that the sale of Addison managed apparently to avoid administration.  Saved by Webber and Farke who can describe as prudent not the sainted Delia who with the Board managed as Webber put it pi55ed previous PL riches up the wall.   Just hope Webber continues to weave his magic until our next financial calamity.  Sure as eggs is eggs this is inevitable.

Splendid Rush forever the optimist and apologist poor deluded soul.    

I don’t buy the “we had to sell Maddison to stay afloat” moan. Yes, that’s what a lot of clubs do, sell their best players for money that is used to pay off debts or wages or expenses before the balance is reinvested in players. 

The fact we had such a player shows that we weren’t anywhere near the position that Bury and Bolton find themselves in. Can those clubs sell off one or two players for even ten million to balance the books? We had the Murphys, then Maddison, then Aarons/Lewis/Godfrey who even if we hadn’t got promoted last season could easily have been sold for minimum £5-10 mil each. We’ve invested in our youth system and that’s going to benefit the club for many years to come - not just on the pitch, but also (if we need it to) financially by selling off players. Having these players come through isn’t just “luck”. 

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17 minutes ago, Aggy said:

I don’t buy the “we had to sell Maddison to stay afloat” moan. Yes, that’s what a lot of clubs do, sell their best players for money that is used to pay off debts or wages or expenses before the balance is reinvested in players. 

The fact we had such a player shows that we weren’t anywhere near the position that Bury and Bolton find themselves in. Can those clubs sell off one or two players for even ten million to balance the books? We had the Murphys, then Maddison, then Aarons/Lewis/Godfrey who even if we hadn’t got promoted last season could easily have been sold for minimum £5-10 mil each. We’ve invested in our youth system and that’s going to benefit the club for many years to come - not just on the pitch, but also (if we need it to) financially by selling off players. Having these players come through isn’t just “luck”. 

The additional point is that selling Maddison was all we needed to do to (very roughly speaking) balance the books. The directors had made the brave decision at the end of the 2016-17 season not to try to go hell for leather for promotion again, even though we had a season left of parachute payments, but to start off-loading the high earners.

If we had carried on with an expensive squad, and failed to go up, then it would gave taken more than just selling Maddison to get us out of trouble. Possibly the kind of trouble Aston Villa would have been in if they hadn't won through in the play-offs, and the kind of trouble Championship clubs are getting round by way of selling their ground to their owners.The chances are that if we hadn't started that process of cutting back when we did, we would be nowhere near where we are now.

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3 hours ago, pete said:

Those prudent and careful owners who managed to put us in the situation at the end of the season before last that the sale of Addison managed apparently to avoid administration.  Saved by Webber and Farke who can describe as prudent not the sainted Delia who with the Board managed as Webber put it pi55ed previous PL riches up the wall.   Just hope Webber continues to weave his magic until our next financial calamity.  Sure as eggs is eggs this is inevitable.

Splendid Rush forever the optimist and apologist poor deluded soul.    

Wow, how you can still be pi55ed at a time like this for NCFC supporters is completely and utterly staggering.

 

Unless..... 🚜🤔

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Very sad, if and when Bolton fold. Bolton were one of the group of 12 founding members of the football league. Also Bury twice FA cup winners. 

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Posted (edited)

Take the point about spending above and beyond leading to where the two clubs are but the loyal supporters are the ones who are impacted. Not their fault that their owners are hopeless at managing the finances. I feel for them, don't suppose either have many glory hunters

Edited by Hairy Canary

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10 hours ago, pete said:

 

Splendid Rush forever the optimist and apologist poor deluded soul.    

Yep, born in Norwich, 50 years a supporter and always optimistic, deluded? possibly, but if I wanted happy endings I'd go to the cinema. 

However, I'm not optimistic that you'll ever say anything positive about the Club that you claim to support, in that, I'm far from deluded. 

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11 hours ago, splendidrush said:

Yep, born in Norwich, 50 years a supporter and always optimistic, deluded? possibly, but if I wanted happy endings I'd go to the cinema. 

However, I'm not optimistic that you'll ever say anything positive about the Club that you claim to support, in that, I'm far from deluded. 

Apparently these are available elsewhere.

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And Sky have a countdown clock as if it’s to the end of the transfer window. Poor taste 

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Bury's (and Bolton's) plight isn't just living beyond their means - it's having people in charge who either don't know or don't care what they are doing. At least our owners care - they have made many mistakes, but not because they are asset-stripping or trying to make money, just because they're human. 

If we can survive even for another season in the PL on our model it will be a miracle; but at least if we do go down we still have a club, and it will still be in a reasonably healthy position.

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I can remember the days when Norwich City had to apply for re-election to the  Division 3 South and you couldn't get much lower than that

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18 minutes ago, daly said:

I can remember the days when Norwich City had to apply for re-election to the  Division 3 South and you couldn't get much lower than that

That was 1956-57? It was automatic for finishing bottom, If I remember right, although we’d had financial troubles earlier on, which had been pretty much sorted out by the end of the season. But also it was usually automatic to be re-elected in those days. And the season after we finished in the top half of the table, so in the revamp we went into Division Three rather than Division Four.

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On 26/08/2019 at 15:59, ricardo said:

It may take one or two famous clubs going to the wall before people realise that not everyone can live the dream.

Bolton is a pretty famous club! Great history and not that long out of the Premier league. 

"Going to the wall" is not the only ways that are punished for unsuccessfully trying to live the dream - long periods of stagnation is often a price teams pay. Ipswich are an example of this but there are several others.

I would also suggest that there are others that are in danger of similar scenarios if their owners become bored or get ill. look for example at those clubs who have sold their grounds for various reasons. Often these have tended to rack up debts, but without grounds have little to secure them against. Who would want to takeover a debt ridden club in such circumstances?

The wage structure is simply unsustainable for many clubs - an is often the result of "ambitious" player trading.

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Posted (edited)

It was said this morning that up to 20% of all Football League teams are in a precarious position.

I think those guys down the road should be very afraid. Their debt will almost certainly not get repaid, and it's only then that you discover how much of a saviour and fan Boy Mucus really is...

Edited by First Wazzock
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