One CB from being a very good a Premiership Team?

[Aggy 752]

23 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

Whilst goal 2 was not Hanley's fault, he could have done a far better job of stopping it, mount cuts inside far too easily when Hanley is stood in front of him, Godfrey was not at fault for that one. If you think Godfrey was drawn to far too the ball, whose space was the ball carrier going into and hadn't reacted?

Goal 3 was totally his fault, it was a simple straight ball from deep, Hanley was playing Abraham's inside by not keeping in line and then turned his back and was slow to react. 

I'm not saying he's carp or attacking him, but he is definitely the weakest link in this backline and it was notable how much Chelsea attacked at him as opposed to Godfrey, I thought it was plainly they targeted Hanley, especially in the second half.

Disagree about goal 3. The midfield should stop the break. The shot isn’t that great, Krul should save it. If you watch the highlights he dives but doesn’t extend his arm. Hanley doesn’t really do anything wrong - Abrahams isn’t through on goal, it’s a bit of a punt that should be saved.

Goal 2, I think there are a few of them out of position. Aarons doesn’t appear to be picking anyone up and he could be tucking in and helping out there.

[cornish sam 944]

8 hours ago, Aggy said:

Disagree about goal 3. The midfield should stop the break. The shot isn’t that great, Krul should save it. If you watch the highlights he dives but doesn’t extend his arm. Hanley doesn’t really do anything wrong - Abrahams isn’t through on goal, it’s a bit of a punt that should be saved.

Goal 2, I think there are a few of them out of position. Aarons doesn’t appear to be picking anyone up and he could be tucking in and helping out there.

The break for goal three is about 5 paces then he plays a simple straight ball to Abraham's (who is a yard past the line but Hanley is playing him onside) who isn't through on goal, until Hanley gets turned inside out turning his back on him giving him the space to charge. Goal 2 there arena few out of position, yes, but mount is in hanleys zone and Hanley is the man right in front of him letting him cut inside just before the shot. 

As I said in the addendum, others could have also stopped the situation but Hanley should have stopped them.

[Indy 3,283]

50 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

The break for goal three is about 5 paces then he plays a simple straight ball to Abraham's (who is a yard past the line but Hanley is playing him onside) who isn't through on goal, until Hanley gets turned inside out turning his back on him giving him the space to charge. Goal 2 there arena few out of position, yes, but mount is in hanleys zone and Hanley is the man right in front of him letting him cut inside just before the shot. 

As I said in the addendum, others could have also stopped the situation but Hanley should have stopped them.

Not should have stopped them but at least made an effort to block. It’s very noticeable that Hanley is always two or three yards off the players, the first goal the cross should have been stopped, but the only Chelsea attacker in the box came from Hanley’s Space, the second goal definitely Hanley at fault , if you watch Hanley’s trying to off load Mount to Aarons but there’s a man to Aarons right which he was covering, but worse thing was the space Hanley allowed him.

For the last goal the same again, instead of being closer to Abraham he’s three yards off him the instead of going to him he’s turned then runs towards the goal and that’s that.

Chelsea saw that match up and all their goals came from attacking Hanley’s area, Abraham played off Hanley the entire game and they did a job on us which in fairness they should given their team. Still a very good game, the first half was great watch and even in the second half we had a chance or two to win it, no shame in that.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Indy

[JF 694]

On BT Sport after the game Joe Cole said that’s we need to look at Hanleys position in the team because of his age he looks like he’s struggling with the pace of the PL. Obviously putting no research into his age as he’s only 27! 

[Aggy 752]

1 hour ago, cornish sam said:

The break for goal three is about 5 paces then he plays a simple straight ball to Abraham's (who is a yard past the line but Hanley is playing him onside) who isn't through on goal, until Hanley gets turned inside out turning his back on him giving him the space to charge. Goal 2 there arena few out of position, yes, but mount is in hanleys zone and Hanley is the man right in front of him letting him cut inside just before the shot. 

As I said in the addendum, others could have also stopped the situation but Hanley should have stopped them.

Again disagree. I’ve just rewatched the goals and the first is definitely Aarons’ man, Hanley even points to tell Aarons to pick him up just before the cross comes in. Aarons has managed to end up five yards away from Abrahams.

The second, Aarons is marking Mount and doesn’t follow him. He has let Mount get ten yards behind him. Despite the fact Chelsea are on the break (and Aarons isn’t the last man, so isn’t playing offside) he just lets Mount run completely unchecked.

Hanley is worried about the man with the ball - and rightly so, as Aarons is marking Mount. By the time Mount picks up the ball (five yards behind where Aarons is), he’s also inside the penalty area and darting across. Hardly any defender in the world puts a foot in there, as you give away a penalty. Extremely extremely harsh to say Hanley should (rather than could) have stopped the second when the player who should have stopped it was Aarons - by not letting the man he was marking just run in behind him.

The third, it’s a long five paces, as the assist maker picks the ball up outside of the circle in his own half, and plays the pass near the edge of the circle in our own half. They’ve also made one sideways pass deep inside their own half which again had nobody pressing. When it’s 2-2 against a top side, you don’t let them break that distance with literally no pressure. Take them down there. Perhaps Hanley can get a yard closer but they’re twenty yards out and he doesn’t have a clear shot. You should only be able to score from there with a worldy strike - he hits a fairly tame effort which Krul decides not to stretch for. 

Now I don’t think Hanley will stay in the side too long and I do think he’s too slow and clumsy for the prem. But I think it’s extremely harsh to blame him as much as some are on here. I would wager that whoever else comes in will also struggle if Aarons continues to struggle with his defensive duties down that right hand side.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Aggy

[Indy 3,283]

3 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Again disagree. I’ve just rewatched the goals and the first is definitely Aarons’ man, Hanley even points to tell Aarons to pick him up just before the cross comes in. Aarons has managed to end up five yards away from Abrahams.

The second, Aarons is marking Mount and doesn’t follow him. He has let Mount get ten yards behind him. Despite the fact Chelsea are on the break (and Aarons isn’t the last man, so isn’t playing offside) he just lets Mount run completely unchecked.

Hanley is worried about the man with the ball - and rightly so, as Aarons is marking Mount. By the time Mount picks up the ball (five yards behind where Aarons is), he’s also inside the penalty area and darting across. Hardly any defender in the world puts a foot in there, as you give away a penalty. Extremely extremely harsh to say Hanley should (rather than could) have stopped the second when the player who should have stopped it was Aarons - by not letting the man he was marking just run in behind him.

The third, perhaps Hanley can get a yard closer but they’re twenty yards out and he doesn’t have a clear shot. You should only be able to score from there with a worldy strike - he hits a fairly tame effort which Krul decides not to stretch for. 

Now I don’t think Hanley will stay in the side too long and I do think he’s too slow and clumsy for the prem. But I think it’s extremely harsh to blame him as much as some are on here. I would wager that whoever else comes in will also struggle if Aarons continues to struggle with his defensive duties down that right hand side.

 

 

Noticeable how Hanley tries to off load anyone in his area to others?

The second goal watch again Aarons has a man on his outside he’s watching, Hanley has no one and Mount coming towards him, should have been closer.

[Aggy 752]

8 minutes ago, Indy said:

Noticeable how Hanley tries to off load anyone in his area to others?

The second goal watch again Aarons has a man on his outside he’s watching, Hanley has no one and Mount coming towards him, should have been closer.

Nonsense. The first, Hanley is marking Mount (in “his area”) and Aarons isn’t properly marking Abrahams (who is in “Aarons’ area”).

As for the second, when the assist player gets the ball in line with almost the middle of the goal, Mount is outside to the right of the box. If our centre back was picking up a player in the right full back position when the opposition have the ball in the central area, I’d be very worried. It’s Aarons’ man simple as that.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Aggy

[splendidrush 699]

8 minutes ago, Aggy said:

 

Now I don’t think Hanley will stay in the side too long and I do think he’s too slow and clumsy for the prem. But I think it’s extremely harsh to blame him as much as some are on here. 

 

 

Agree with this, I wonder how our other CB's would have coped with two of the best sides in Europe, I'm sure we'll all be impressed when they step in against Brighton, by then Hanley will be well down the pecking order. 

[ron obvious 1,498]

31 minutes ago, JF said:

On BT Sport after the game Joe Cole said that’s we need to look at Hanleys position in the team because of his age he looks like he’s struggling with the pace of the PL. Obviously putting no research into his age as he’s only 27! 

he does look about 50 though.

[Indy 3,283]

6 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Nonsense. The first, Hanley is marking Mount (in “his area”) and Aarons isn’t properly marking Abrahams (who is in “Aarons’ area”).

As for the second, when the assist player gets the ball in line with almost the middle of the goal, Mount is outside to the right of the box. If our centre back was picking up a player in the right full back position when the opposition have the ball in the central area, I’d be very worried. It’s Aarons’ man simple as that.

Aggy, the first is certainly one of three defenders there, Mount runs across towards the front post being covered by Godfrey, this pulls Hanley across, but he’s not close to Mount, or the ball. Aarons loses Abraham’s no doubt but Hanley get drawn into an area where two other players are defending.

The second certainly isn’t Aarons fault, Mount is inside coming across Hanley has to pick him up and make a challeng.

 

[Aggy 752]

20 minutes ago, Indy said:

Aggy, the first is certainly one of three defenders there, Mount runs across towards the front post being covered by Godfrey, this pulls Hanley across, but he’s not close to Mount, or the ball. Aarons loses Abraham’s no doubt but Hanley get drawn into an area where two other players are defending.

The second certainly isn’t Aarons fault, Mount is inside coming across Hanley has to pick him up and make a challeng.

 

So which is it, is he “offload[ing] anyone in his area to others”, or is it as per this post, in which you appear to be saying it wasn’t originally Hanley’s job to pick them up, but he could have done so after others (Aarons) had failed to mark them?

The first - you think Hanley should know Aarons has lost his man (who is behind Hanley) and, instead of attacking the ball as the cross comes in, go and mark someone who should already be marked? Hanley’s failure to do so is a bigger reason that goal goes in than Aarons losing his man?

The second, how does Mount get into his starting position unmarked? I don’t think there is anyone wider that Aarons is worried about, but even if there is, as a defender you stay compact and narrow. If you’ve got two men, you follow the one who is more central or further forward. Mount is both more central and much further forward than any other Chelsea player down our right flank. He gets deep into “Aarons’ area” completely untracked. Yes, he then moves over into “Hanley’s area”, but if Aarons has followed his man, he gets a challenge in as Mount receives the ball. 

I know it’s not popular to criticise Aarons (and seemingly popular to do so with Hanley), but others were to blame for the goals more than Hanley.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Aggy

[Ray 111]

Whilst we could possibly have defended better as a team,  let's  remember that the oppo are a talented bunch who get paid the big bucks to beat defenders  it's what they're good at. When we score we naturally applaud our attacking play and so it works at the other end of the pitch. It's called football, if every defence was better than the attack there would be a lot of nil nils and how boring would that be!

[Indy 3,283]

22 minutes ago, Aggy said:

So which is it, is he “offload[ing] anyone in his area to others”, or is it as per this post, in which you appear to be saying it wasn’t originally Hanley’s job to pick them up, but he could have done so after others (Aarons) had failed to mark them?

The first - you think Hanley should know Aarons has lost his man (who is behind Hanley) and, instead of attacking the ball as the cross comes in, go and mark someone who should already be marked? Hanley’s failure to do so is a bigger reason that goal goes in than Aarons losing his man?

The second, how does Mount get into his starting position unmarked? I don’t think there is anyone wider that Aarons is worried about, but even if there is, as a defender you stay compact and narrow. If you’ve got two men, you follow the one who is more central or further forward. Mount is both more central and much further forward than any other Chelsea player down our right flank. He gets deep into “Aarons’ area” completely untracked. Yes, he then moves over into “Hanley’s area”, but if Aarons has followed his man, he gets a challenge in as Mount receives the ball. 

I know it’s not popular to criticise Aarons (and seemingly popular to do so with Hanley), but others were to blame for the goals more than Hanley.

Hanley should stay in his area and go to the man to close him down, I’ve never said Aarons isn’t blameless, I’ve said all three goals came from attacking Hanley’s area.

Hanley the entire game never man marks anyone but off loads them if he does that he then has a duty to cover the space, he didn’t, as you say which is it? He does neither in all three goals he is chasing shadows.

I’ve stated throughout other threads defending wasn’t the best by our wing backs either, and it’s Chelsea.

As comments would Zimmermann done any better, definitely, he’s very good at throwing his body into a block and not staying on his feet turning his back as Hanley tends to do.

Not signaling him out, but noticeable how Lampard certainly did and made sure Mount and Abraham came from that side as most their attacks did.

We can certainly differ Aggy, I appreciate all views and can certainly see it’s not Hanley who lost us the game never said that, but a better defender there might have saved us a loss. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Indy

[splendidrush 699]

5 minutes ago, Indy said:

I’ve never said Aarons isn’t blameless, I’ve said all three goals came from attacking Hanley’s area.

 

That's because he's a CB, what percentage of goals are scored from the middle of the goal,  probably most. 

 

7 minutes ago, Indy said:

....but a better defender there might have saved us a loss. 

....might, but we'll never know, of course Klose or Zimmerman won't be facing the European Champions and the Europa Cup Winners when they come back and, hopefully Max and Jamal will be a little more streetwise by the time we face the mighty Brighton or Blades.

Which means our defence will look better, albeit against inferior opponents and it'll all be Hanley's fault that we lost to 2 of the best Teams in Europe. 

[Indy 3,283]

No one said it’s Hanley’s fault, we’re just highlighted the weakness, it’s not just some of us, pundits did post Chelsea, pros who play the game, ACN also highlight the weakness.

Well we shall see next game if Klose returns alongside Godfrey how solid we look, once Zimmermann’s back hopefully we should be full strength.

[splendidrush 699]

Fair enough, but if Klose or Zimmerman come back against Man C and we concede 6 or 7 I wonder if there will be half a dozen threads on here dissecting their every move. 

Tbh, I'm not sure that Farke knows what his full strength side is and that's a good thing, our Team evolved over the course of last season, injuries had an impact, I don't see this season being any different. 

[pete 318]

Love him or Hate him at fault or not at fault its an academic argument he won't be playing any more and this argument can be put to bed.  Thank god. 

[splendidrush 699]

31 minutes ago, pete said:

Love him or Hate him at fault or not at fault its an academic argument he won't be playing any more and this argument can be put to bed.  Thank god. 

As has already been said, he's only playing because of injuries to others.... it's football, don't be surprised if we need him again at some stage this season. 

[Aggy 752]

2 hours ago, Indy said:

Not signaling him out, but noticeable how Lampard certainly did and made sure Mount and Abraham came from that side as most their attacks did.

I think we’ll see teams focus on our right side generally throughout the season. I don’t think that’s to do with Hanley/whoever else plays at right CB... I think Aarons has found it tough defensively, but even if he were defending brilliantly, because of the way we play there will often be gaps in behind our right full back area. 

If we were playing with a defence minded right back who was told never to venture forward, Mount doesn’t have that space for the second. Lewis seems not to get forward as often as Aarons (and is probably the better defender) so makes sense for attacking teams to target our right side more. 

Possibly the biggest tweak to avoid that potential weakness will be Amadou coming in to the midfield. When Aarons gets forward, Amadou (who can play CB) can drop into the back line when we lose the ball and whoever is playing as right centre back can then push wider to cover the gap in behind Aarons if the oppo break down that side. I wouldn’t want Hanley playing that role admittedly. Not sure if we will play like that, but it would be better than restricting Aarons’ freedom to get forward.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

Despite  my reservations about GH, having looked at the HL several times I've reached this conclusion. A mostly inexperienced  back 4 led by a guy who, most would admit is not really  premiership  quality,  were given the run around by a not bad at all upper premiership  side.  All of a sudden the angst  that had been nagging at me since Saturday  evaporated.  The three younger members of the defence  have entered  a  very steep learning curve. I watched Saturdays game while on the phone with an Ajax supporting  friend, he was watching  too,whose opinion was, the young guys will step up, or they'll struggle  but they have to be given the chance,  without pressure from the stands, even when it goes wrong,the other fella, as he referred  to GH, isn't going to get any better. Hate  to say it but hes  right, Ajax success has been built on trusting youth and supplementing  that with the right kind of experienced  ( Tadic, litmaanen  etc), he remarked that Timm Klose despite  his  injury  record lately is exactly  the  kind of player to bring in,for leadership and organisation skills, much as the returning Daley Blind although unspectacular as a signing  , has proved a shrewd move for Ajax. He was impressed with Zimbo last season,  very, but said that he may benefit  from being played alongside TKfor a while to ease him into this new level and pace of game. Norwich are his English team and with Dutch pragmatism, made me feel a whole lot better about conceding 8 goals in 3 games. He is impressed  with Farke  and kept reminding me that we all need patience as getting to grips with a higher level of football can take time.

[SwindonCanary 455]

With Zimmermann coming back and the addition of Amadou. I think things will be a lot better at the back

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

14 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

With Zimmermann coming back and the addition of Amadou. I think things will be a lot better at the back

We shall see. It doesn't seem as Amadou has hit the ground running as well as we would have expected as has been well debated in another thread. Zimmermann was part of a back four that conceded nearly 120 goals in 2 seasons,  so wholly unrealistic to even consider he is the solution to our defensive problems. If you want to concede few goals then you'll need the approach that Newcastle took at Spurs yesterday and defend as a unit, not pretty but very effective. Farke has already said we're not going to do that and are not equipped to do it either. It's going to be an exciting and interesting season.

 

[paddycanary 538]

I also think we need Klose fit & firing. And I'm a bit concerned about Trybull's ability against the better teams. If Amadou fails to step up, the central/defensive midfield area could cost us as the season develops. Perhaps Tettey needs to see more pitch time? A bit of luck with injuries will be needed. Hopefully the likes of Byram, Klose, Amadou, Vrancic & Roberts can really stake a claim against Crawley tomorrow. And of course the Zimm might get a few minutes too. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

On 26/08/2019 at 10:41, Indy said:

Well we shall see next game if Klose returns alongside Godfrey how solid we look, once Zimmermann’s back hopefully we should be full strength.

Well now we need Hanley because it looks like he's going to be one of just three fit centre backs until at least January. 

Can you see now why it makes more sense to support and encourage the players we have fit and available rather than knock their confidence by writing essays about how **** they are? 

We need the best Hanley we can possibly get, and we get that by getting behind him. The fans (eventually) rallied around Krul after his dodgy patch and we got a better keeper as a result. 

Hanley is basically Malky Mackay. Now Mackay was no Premier League player, but you know what? We could have done with him for a year under Worthington, just like we need Hanley here right now. 

How about it Indy? Be a real fan and help us all try and get the best out of what we've got to work with? 

We've always done that as a club, we've got away with Leon Barnett and Aaron Wilbraham at this level... I'm sure we could do alright with a Scottish International if we work on giving him a bit more protection against the more dangerous sides... and that's where a march fit Tettey or Ampadou comes in. 

How about we just support every man in the 25 in possible the most important season in our history? Doesn't that sound like a nice idea? No more threads slagging off our our own players? 

We've got no bad eggs... No Grabbans, no Oliveria's, no shirkers or lazy twats, togetherness is what makes this club great right now. Fans have played a big part in that.  

Edited August 28, 2019 by TeemuVanBasten

[splendidrush 699]

Wasting your time Teemu, I don't read the match thread until the game is over, and it's hard to believe what I'm reading from Norwich supporters sometimes. 

Even tonight, someone claimed that Kenny was no better than League One, there were similar 'compliments' about Idah, Mario, Amadou etc, etc.

Realise how far we've come in the last year, understand what Webber's been saying all summer, accept that survival this season is a miracle, rather than taking it for granted and we'll all enjoy the ride a lot more. 

I bet Hanley's glad that he wasn't playing tonight, or it would have been all his fault. 

[Indy 3,283]

5 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Well now we need Hanley because it looks like he's going to be one of just three fit centre backs until at least January. 

Can you see now why it makes more sense to support and encourage the players we have fit and available rather than knock their confidence by writing essays about how **** they are? 

We need the best Hanley we can possibly get, and we get that by getting behind him. The fans (eventually) rallied around Krul after his dodgy patch and we got a better keeper as a result. 

Hanley is basically Malky Mackay. Now Mackay was no Premier League player, but you know what? We could have done with him for a year under Worthington, just like we need Hanley here right now. 

How about it Indy? Be a real fan and help us all try and get the best out of what we've got to work with? 

We've always done that as a club, we've got away with Leon Barnett and Aaron Wilbraham at this level... I'm sure we could do alright with a Scottish International if we work on giving him a bit more protection against the more dangerous sides... and that's where a march fit Tettey or Ampadou comes in. 

How about we just support every man in the 25 in possible the most important season in our history? Doesn't that sound like a nice idea? No more threads slagging off our our own players? 

We've got no bad eggs... No Grabbans, no Oliveria's, no shirkers or lazy twats, togetherness is what makes this club great right now. Fans have played a big part in that.  

Get off that high horse, never said anything about not supporting Hanley, but just because debating how poor he is on a forum isn’t going to knock his confidence! He’s never not been given anything other than support and what I said earlier on this thread has come to be, injuries could leave us with relying on a championship defender, so the question should be asked to why another CB wasn’t bought in knowing Zimmermann was injured and how delicate Klose has been!

Please Do point out where I’ve slagged off Hanley? Just highlighted his major weaknesses, maybe some of your frustrations should be directed to the club for not strengthening like I said in my opening post.

[king canary 7,578]

7 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Well now we need Hanley because it looks like he's going to be one of just three fit centre backs until at least January. 

Can you see now why it makes more sense to support and encourage the players we have fit and available rather than knock their confidence by writing essays about how **** they are? 

We need the best Hanley we can possibly get, and we get that by getting behind him. The fans (eventually) rallied around Krul after his dodgy patch and we got a better keeper as a result. 

Hanley is basically Malky Mackay. Now Mackay was no Premier League player, but you know what? We could have done with him for a year under Worthington, just like we need Hanley here right now. 

How about it Indy? Be a real fan and help us all try and get the best out of what we've got to work with? 

We've always done that as a club, we've got away with Leon Barnett and Aaron Wilbraham at this level... I'm sure we could do alright with a Scottish International if we work on giving him a bit more protection against the more dangerous sides... and that's where a march fit Tettey or Ampadou comes in. 

How about we just support every man in the 25 in possible the most important season in our history? Doesn't that sound like a nice idea? No more threads slagging off our our own players? 

We've got no bad eggs... No Grabbans, no Oliveria's, no shirkers or lazy twats, togetherness is what makes this club great right now. Fans have played a big part in that.  

I know you've only got 38 posts under your belt but you do know what a 'discussion forum' is for right?

[Surfer 1,547]

Well, we are where we are. Hanley has provided evidence these first three games that he’s off the pace - physically and mentally - needed to be an effective CB in this league. So given that, is this a spell and he’ll get better, or is that it? If that is it, how do the team help him be more effective? 

Giving the captaincy to Krul or Godfrey might help a bit, let him focus on his own job, get our two FB’s to modify their style might help too. Or perhaps replace Trybull with Amadou or Tettey.

Maybe we should play three at the back, maybe we should just play our regular back four a.s.a.p 

That’s what the manager gets paid to work out, all we can do is support the team and offer our insights to what we see happening on the pitch.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Surfer

[Tetteys Jig 830]

but for getting rolled by Shelvey in the last minute, Hanley wasnt "that" bad against Newcastle so it's not a complete disaster. His other games were against the European champions to be fair as well. Hopefully we do get the best Hanley possible and can still pick up points against those around us like we did vs Newcastle 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

3 hours ago, Indy said:

 your frustrations should be directed to the club for not strengthening like I said in my opening post.

On August 8th you declared yourself happy with our transfer business, so we're all football geniuses with the benefit of hindsight aren't we. 

Ampadou can play centre back, apparently looked decent there last night, he's an option if Hanley continues to struggle. Signing him was the club identifying the need for more depth in two positions. Hopefully Tettey remains fit so Ampadou can be in contention there.

Perhaps the club simply couldn't afford a quality centre back this summer? Looking at Bolton and Bury and I'd consider living within our means and not gambling on Premier League survival like we did when we signed Naismith and Jarvis to be the number 1 priority. We knew it would be tough this season, Fulham showing that throwing money about not always the answer, QPR showed it under Fernandes. We went up a season earlier than planned. 

We've only seen Hanley against one mediocre Premier League side, the other two games were against current European Champions. 

Not the fairest sample to use, because we have no idea what Zimmermann looks like against that level of opposition yet and it's been a while since Klose had his only 10 games in this league too.

Leicester won the league with Wes Morgan FFS, so we can stay up with Grant Hanley. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by TeemuVanBasten