One CB from being a very good a Premiership Team?

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Leicester won the league with Wes Morgan FFS, so we can stay up with Grant Hanley.

A very good point.

[king canary 7,603]

16 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

A very good point.

No doubt we can stay up with Hanley. I do believe though that our chances of doing that are slightly better with Klose or Zimmerman in there.

[BroadstairsR 2,159]

I would hope that the scouts are scouting with every ounce of their scouting expertise in order to strengthen that CB position at the next window. Get the statisticians to work overtime, buy in a couple of lucky rabbit's feet and consult Mystic Meg. Anything.

Let's hope that Amadou proves to be that missing link in the central defensive area, but even if he proves to be a revelation we now have to face up to the fact that Klose seems to have become a bit fragile, that Zimbo has a bit to prove at the highest level, that Hanley might well fall a bit short and that Ben Godfrey will inevitably be in demand big time sooner than would suit us.

The camel's back was under strain.TK's latest set back could well have broken it to the extent that, heaven forbid, Daniel Farke might well have to sideline some of the principles that have seen him such a success at Carrow Road and set out a more defensively minded line-up in order to cope with some of the class attacking acts his team will be facing this season.*** Bravado can only get you so far.

Tin hat time.

*** in truth he has previously suggested that changes will be needed to combat certain situations/teams this season and although this has not been particularly evident thus far I support his initial tendency to give last season's stars a chance to prove themselves.

Edited August 28, 2019 by BroadstairsR

[king canary 7,603]

6 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

I would hope that the scouts are scouting with every ounce of their scouting expertise in order to strengthen that CB position at the next window. Get the statisticians to work overtime, buy in a couple of lucky rabbit's feet and consult Mystic Meg. Anything.

I listened to a podcast with the former Head of Analytics at Brentford- he said central defenders and goalkeepers remain the hardest players to analyze statistically. 

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

24 minutes ago, king canary said:

No doubt we can stay up with Hanley. I do believe though that our chances of doing that are slightly better with Klose or Zimmerman in there.

Equally valid point.

[Indy 3,297]

5 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

On August 8th you declared yourself happy with our transfer business, so we're all football geniuses with the benefit of hindsight aren't we. 

Ampadou can play centre back, apparently looked decent there last night, he's an option if Hanley continues to struggle. Signing him was the club identifying the need for more depth in two positions. Hopefully Tettey remains fit so Ampadou can be in contention there.

Perhaps the club simply couldn't afford a quality centre back this summer? Looking at Bolton and Bury and I'd consider living within our means and not gambling on Premier League survival like we did when we signed Naismith and Jarvis to be the number 1 priority. We knew it would be tough this season, Fulham showing that throwing money about not always the answer, QPR showed it under Fernandes. We went up a season earlier than planned. 

We've only seen Hanley against one mediocre Premier League side, the other two games were against current European Champions. 

Not the fairest sample to use, because we have no idea what Zimmermann looks like against that level of opposition yet and it's been a while since Klose had his only 10 games in this league too.

Leicester won the league with Wes Morgan FFS, so we can stay up with Grant Hanley. 

Not quite, I did say we could do with another CB as others too. As for Hanley, there’s no doubt he’s very limited and we’re not Leicester who spent I believe close 100 million over the three seasons, to get where they did and are now.

As for not affording another defender, I’d hope given the little we have spent we do have some spare cash if needed.

Depends on Zimmermann, how long he’ll be out, hope we’ve got a decent prospect in our u23 in case we get more injuries!

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,429]

I'm guessing Webber knew we needed another CB , and the fact that he seemed to be happy to allow a loan out for Hanley to Blackburn suggests that we had our eye on someone/ ones that didn't come off. The fact that Hanley couldn't get in our Championship team would mean that Webber doubted he was good enough to play in the Prem. This is not knocking Hanley in the slightest , but I can't really see any other way of looking at it?  

[Indy 3,297]

35 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

I'm guessing Webber knew we needed another CB , and the fact that he seemed to be happy to allow a loan out for Hanley to Blackburn suggests that we had our eye on someone/ ones that didn't come off. The fact that Hanley couldn't get in our Championship team would mean that Webber doubted he was good enough to play in the Prem. This is not knocking Hanley in the slightest , but I can't really see any other way of looking at it?  

Newcastle didn’t fancy him at this level either, just hope he can do a job.

[Il Pirata 249]

41 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

I'm guessing Webber knew we needed another CB , and the fact that he seemed to be happy to allow a loan out for Hanley to Blackburn suggests that we had our eye on someone/ ones that didn't come off. The fact that Hanley couldn't get in our Championship team would mean that Webber doubted he was good enough to play in the Prem. This is not knocking Hanley in the slightest , but I can't really see any other way of looking at it?  

Neither could Leitner, or Vrancic for large parts of it.  

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

The paradox is that we need Hanley to do well between now and January if Webber is going to be comfortable spending money on his upgrade.

And even if we can justify spending at that point we may decide our January budget is needed elsewhere.... The fact we are only one injury or suspension (to Pukki) away from starting Sberny right now is the greater concern for me. 

In both full back positions we've got players who would need to really step up if Aarons or Lewis get an injury. 

The thread questions whether we're a centre defender away from a Premier League squad, but with Zimmermann coming back and Ampadou able to play there... I'd question whether it's actually the primary area of concern. Drmic needs to get fit and stay fit before I stop worrying about Pukki every week.

Edited August 28, 2019 by TeemuVanBasten

[nutty nigel 7,528]

56 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

I'm guessing Webber knew we needed another CB , and the fact that he seemed to be happy to allow a loan out for Hanley to Blackburn suggests that we had our eye on someone/ ones that didn't come off. The fact that Hanley couldn't get in our Championship team would mean that Webber doubted he was good enough to play in the Prem. This is not knocking Hanley in the slightest , but I can't really see any other way of looking at it?  

It's strange though because Webber signed Hanley because the defenders here weren't deemed good enough. It's quite possible that without injury Hanley would have remained first choice throughout last season. We will never know.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

24 minutes ago, Indy said:

Newcastle didn’t fancy him at this level either

They didn't fancy Tim Krul either but he's doing a fantastic job. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

2 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

It's strange though because Webber signed Hanley because the defenders here weren't deemed good enough. It's quite possible that without injury Hanley would have remained first choice throughout last season. We will never know.

Did more than that, he gave him a new 5 year deal after an impressive first season. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

The fact that Hanley couldn't get in our Championship team would mean that Webber doubted he was good enough to play in the Prem. This is not knocking Hanley in the slightest , but I can't really see any other way of looking at it?  

Two big flaws in your logic Paddy. 

1). Webber doesn't pick the team, so you have no idea how highly Webber rates him based on how many times he featured last season. Getting injured in September didn't help with game time. 

2). Webbers plan was for promotion to the Premier League this season (2019/2020), but one year ago he gave Hanley a fresh 5 year deal after his first full season in our team. So how do you determine that Webber doesn't think he can do a job in the Prem? Or are we saying that this should go down as a big black mark on Webbers record? 

[king canary 7,603]

3 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

The paradox is that we need Hanley to do well between now and January if Webber is going to be comfortable spending money on his upgrade.

And even if we can justify spending at that point we may decide our January budget is needed elsewhere.... The fact we are only one injury or suspension (to Pukki) away from starting Sberny right now is the greater concern for me. 

In both full back positions we've got players who would need to really step up if Aarons or Lewis get an injury. 

The thread questions whether we're a centre defender away from a Premier League squad, but with Zimmermann coming back and Ampadou able to play there... I'd question whether it's actually the primary area of concern. Drmic needs to get fit and stay fit before I stop worrying about Pukki every week.

I agree with quite a bit of this- Farke and Webber likely didn't expect to be having Hanley play this much and there is only so much depth you can keep in one position. It will be interesting to see if Amadou ends up being used more as a central defender than a defensive midfielder due to this injury.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,429]

2 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Two big flaws in your logic Paddy. 

1). Webber doesn't pick the team, so you have no idea how highly Webber rates him based on how many times he featured last season. Getting injured in September didn't help with game time. 

2). Webbers plan was for promotion to the Premier League this season (2019/2020), but one year ago he gave Hanley a fresh 5 year deal after his first full season in our team. So how do you determine that Webber doesn't think he can do a job in the Prem? Or are we saying that this should go down as a big black mark on Webbers record? 

All great points Teemu. I stand corrected and am of course wrong in every sense . And yes of course I am saying Webber is useless - obviously that isn’t quite what I meant but you know best . 

Ever Yours 

Paddy 

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

No  problem  with hanleys  contract, he's probably not on huge money and should we sell in the next couple of years we'd get decent, if not massive money money  for him. He has a good few years of  football ahead of him. 

[Surfer 1,547]

Yes agree with that - all the players are now on long contracts, I do not believe the club expects many of them to be here in 3 more years.

[The Bristol Nest 513]

Hanley may even improve with game time...

[Surfer 1,547]

Oh dear. Well at least we’ll have Zimmermann and Godfrey back as our central pair now....