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Yes Farke trusts all the players to do a job. Doesn't mean he wouldn't slot his best players back in when available. Imagine Van Dijk missing a couple of games, would Lovren or Matip jump ahead of him? He'd be straight back in. 

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2 minutes ago, markdmhoward said:

Yes Farke trusts all the players to do a job. Doesn't mean he wouldn't slot his best players back in when available. Imagine Van Dijk missing a couple of games, would Lovren or Matip jump ahead of him? He'd be straight back in. 

It’s laughable. By the same logic if Pukki gets injured and his replacement puts in a shift then Pukki isn’t getting back in... 

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3 minutes ago, markdmhoward said:

Yes Farke trusts all the players to do a job. Doesn't mean he wouldn't slot his best players back in when available. Imagine Van Dijk missing a couple of games, would Lovren or Matip jump ahead of him? He'd be straight back in. 

Agree 100% . People endlessly repeating the mantra ....'the shirt is his to lose' use it as evidence that because we beat Newcastle,no changes will be made unless due to injury. Yes Farke likes to play settled , winning side ,but to continually make the point that he won't change anything because we won is naïve in the extreme. DF himself has said that this season we may have to make changes to suit our opponents strengths. Clear enough?

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11 minutes ago, JF said:

As I’ve said I’ve no interest in a Hanley bashing thread but this notion that if he continues to perform the shirt is his is based on nothing. If you break down his two performances he’ll have to improve greatly to keep the shirt. He’s stood in and done ok, nothing more. And done nothing to suggest he should be keeping Zimmerman out. I find it absolutely baffling that this is even a discussion! Maybe if he’s played two blinders the argument would be valid but he hasn’t, all of a sudden two average performances are good enough to replace a season of superb performances

The problem I have with all of this arguement is the faith - and it's no more than that - that Klose or Zimmo would of done any better even if available. Zimmo himself will be match rusty and is unproven at PL level. Klose is classy but can also be error prone and lacks game time.

What I do believe is that ALL will get their chance to shine this season as without a doubt there will be substitutions and injuries forcing changes...like how Godfrey arrived !

Farke will choose and unless he knows something very different or events force a change I expect Hanley and Godfrey to be starting for a while.

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6 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

The problem I have with all of this arguement is the faith - and it's no more than that - that Klose or Zimmo would of done any better even if available. Zimmo himself will be match rusty and is unproven at PL level. Klose is classy but can also be error prone and lacks game time.

What I do believe is that ALL will get their chance to shine this season as without a doubt there will be substitutions and injuries forcing changes...like how Godfrey arrived !

Farke will choose and unless he knows something very different or events force a change I expect Hanley and Godfrey to be starting for a while.

So do I as the other two are injured. 

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1 hour ago, splendidrush said:

I believe that Leitner is our best midfielder to play alongside Tom, Alex or Amadou. However, once he got injured against Blackburn, we didn't see him again, with first Mario then Kenny keeping the shirt. 

There seems to be an idea that Hanley is 4th choice but the way I see it, he's got the gig until he gives Farke a reason to take it away. Yes big Zimm has been very impressive but if GH continues to perform he's going to have time to get fit, before serving some time on the bench. 

Is the fact that he was generally all over the place first half at Anfield and again cost us a goal at the weekend not "reason to take it away" even before one considers that he's not quite as comfortable with the ball at his feet?

Not scapegoating Hanley here, he improved a lot against Newcastle but the goal we conceded was still down to an error from him. 

Obviously if he plays superbly against Chelsea and cuts out the errors moving forward then the situation changes but right at this moment, if Klose or Zimm were fit for Saturday then I think Farke would be very tempted to change it. It appears they are unlikely to be though so Grant keeps his place and we will all be fully behind him and hoping that as he gets fitter and fitter he keeps getting better and better.

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7 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Is the fact that he was generally all over the place first half at Anfield and again cost us a goal at the weekend not "reason to take it away" even before one considers that he's not quite as comfortable with the ball at his feet?

Not scapegoating Hanley here, he improved a lot against Newcastle but the goal we conceded was still down to an error from him. 

Obviously if he plays superbly against Chelsea and cuts out the errors moving forward then the situation changes but right at this moment, if Klose or Zimm were fit for Saturday then I think Farke would be very tempted to change it. It appears they are unlikely to be though so Grant keeps his place and we will all be fully behind him and hoping that as he gets fitter and fitter he keeps getting better and better.

This is the problem I have with posters like LDC saying if he continues to perform the shirt is his to lose. He hasn’t had two man of the match displays to warrant comments like that, if he were performing to a high level it would be different, so far he hasn’t 

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37 minutes ago, JF said:

As I’ve said I’ve no interest in a Hanley bashing thread but this notion that if he continues to perform the shirt is his is based on nothing. If you break down his two performances he’ll have to improve greatly to keep the shirt. He’s stood in and done ok, nothing more. And done nothing to suggest he should be keeping Zimmerman out. I find it absolutely baffling that this is even a discussion! Maybe if he’s played two blinders the argument would be valid but he hasn’t, all of a sudden two average performances are good enough to replace a season of superb performances

We'll have to disagree on this one, but the way I understand it is that the team is the main thing for Farke and if we win, the same players take precedence and that they are all trusted to do the job again.  However if we lose, that is different and changes are more likely.

 

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6 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

We'll have to disagree on this one, but the way I understand it is that the team is the main thing for Farke and if we win, the same players take precedence and that they are all trusted to do the job again.  However if we lose, that is different and changes are more likely.

 

What about if we win 5-3 and a player is at fault for all 3 of the opposition goals, perhaps by having a back pass intercepted, not picking his man up from a corner and giving away a needless penalty? Do you keep that player in the side just because we won even if there are more reliable (previously first choice) options available. Its surely not that black and white or at least it shouldn't be. I do agree that Farke seems to take the "don't change a winning team" mantra to extremes (for me Leitner and Vrancic should have got more game time second half of last season) but surely there is a limit even for him, especially with the margins at the top level being so fine?

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1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:
9 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

We'll have to disagree on this one, but the way I understand it is that the team is the main thing for Farke and if we win, the same players take precedence and that they are all trusted to do the job again.  However if we lose, that is different and changes are more likely.

 

What about if we win 5-3 and a player is at fault for all 3 of the opposition goals, perhaps by having a back pass intercepted, not picking his man up from a corner and giving away a needless penalty? Do you keep that player in the side just because we won even if there are more reliable (previously first choice) options available. Its surely not that black and white or at least it shouldn't be. I do agree that Farke seems to take the "don't change a winning team" mantra to extremes (for me Leitner and Vrancic should have got more game time second half of last season) but surely there is a limit even for him, especially with the margins at the top level being so fine?

I think the answer to that is - a win is a win is a win......

🙂

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There’s little doubt Srbeny could do a job but he’s not as good as Pukki! Exactly as Hanley, unfortunately he does have limitations in his abilities and Zimmermann is a class above. When fit there’s not any defence but play your best players.

Hanley will play his role as he has when needed.

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Jees, I'm starting to wonder if I am the only person who has taken any notice of how Farke operates - although even Jim Smith agrees that Farke "seems to take the "don't change a winning team" mantra to extremes" - so at least there is some recognition there, but Farke will (imo) show faith in his club captain - will allow him to play, to get more up to speed, to build up his confidence - until such time as necessity means he needs to change the team - and that would be after a loss, not a win or a creditable draw. 

 

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

Sounds a bit like you with Ryan Bennett to be honest 😉

Hey! That's not fair, he was also statistically our weak link in defence many times (I checked).

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Jees, I'm starting to wonder if I am the only person who has taken any notice of how Farke operates - although even Jim Smith agrees that Farke "seems to take the "don't change a winning team" mantra to extremes" - so at least there is some recognition there, but Farke will (imo) show faith in his club captain - will allow him to play, to get more up to speed, to build up his confidence - until such time as necessity means he needs to change the team - and that would be after a loss, not a win or a creditable draw. 

 

Nope, Farke will have all his players training, he’ll know how fit they are how they are playing and who he would want in his team once everyone is fit.

Zimmer and Klose won’t be fit enough for this Saturday so Hanley will no doubt play.

The following game is up for grabs, I have little doubt who is our best back four and best for this league, Zimmermann when fit is our Van ****.

Also don’t forget Hanley was pretty much poor against Liverpool so would have been dropped for Newcastle had Klose been fit.

Edited by Indy

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Jees, I'm starting to wonder if I am the only person who has taken any notice of how Farke operates

Its only how YOU THINK he operates, no one would be as stupid to have a thought process that is so limiting. Its not a black /white, on/off matter.

Edited by wcorkcanary

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Posted (edited)

Just reading Michael Baileys q&a on the athletic and he’s saying that Klose should be ready to be on the bench for Saturday so that’s one back for contention. Don’t know how long Zimmerman is out for though, which is the main one we need back. He also said that Krul tore into Hanley after that goal Saturday and apparently there were heated words in the dressing room

Edited by JF

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3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Jees, I'm starting to wonder if I am the only person who has taken any notice of how Farke operates - although even Jim Smith agrees that Farke "seems to take the "don't change a winning team" mantra to extremes" - so at least there is some recognition there, but Farke will (imo) show faith in his club captain - will allow him to play, to get more up to speed, to build up his confidence - until such time as necessity means he needs to change the team - and that would be after a loss, not a win or a creditable draw. 

 

Clearly you dont rate Farke that highly.

Whereas I do and I believe he wouldnt wait for an awful performance or a loss to make changes. I think hes more proactive than that, personally. 

But if you want to be soooooo negative then by all means continue..

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Grant Hanley will start on Saturday. Get behind him. 

He can lump it out with Giroud. 

He is improving with game time but will know he is under pressure. 

I'm sure he'll give his best. 

I agree though that Zimmermann and Godfrey are our 1st choice. 

But we surely won't have Zimm back until after the Internationals break. 

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13 hours ago, JF said:

 If it’s a case of once injured you ain’t coming back in then let’s hope that Pukki stays fit or we could be done!

Ridiculous analogy, if Pukki gets injured and is out for 3 months, and Drmic comes in and starts banging them in, do you think Farke will just drop him the moment Pukki's fit?

Play the man on form,not reputation. 

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13 hours ago, cornish sam said:

That was the case last season, but, what happened last match? Kenny was on the bench and leitner started, because he was the better player. 

I thought Kenny did his back and missed 2 days training, I'm struggling to remember anyone losing their place to anything but an injury. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, splendidrush said:

Ridiculous analogy, if Pukki gets injured and is out for 3 months, and Drmic comes in and starts banging them in, do you think Farke will just drop him the moment Pukki's fit?

Play the man on form,not reputation. 

For the last time. . Hanley isn’t a man in form. All he’s done is come in and put a shift in and made two costly errors. The way you’re banging on about it’s Hanleys shirt to lose suggests he’s put in two man of the match displays, thats nowhere near the case. Keeping him in for Zimmerman is akin to leaving Pukki out for Sberny. I’m done with this now, it’s going round in circles. If you believe that our best defender from last season should be left out for a player that’s just putting a shift in purely because he’s got the shirt then that’s up to you. I’m pretty confident our management team have a bit more about them than that.

Edited by JF
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43 minutes ago, JF said:

For the last time. . Hanley isn’t a man in form. All he’s done is come in and put a shift in and made two costly errors. The way you’re banging on about it’s Hanleys shirt to lose suggests he’s put in two man of the match displays, thats nowhere near the case. 

Never said he was in form. It is Hanley's shirt to lose because the alternatives are not fit, and when they are,Farke will have a decision to make, if he's playing well he'll stay in, why wouldn't he?

No one has suggested that he's made two man of the match displays, you're making stuff up. 

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6 minutes ago, splendidrush said:

Never said he was in form. It is Hanley's shirt to lose because the alternatives are not fit, and when they are,Farke will have a decision to make, if he's playing well he'll stay in, why wouldn't he?

No one has suggested that he's made two man of the match displays, you're making stuff up. 

But the real question is has he played well or just done a job? He scored an own goal under no pressure, could be argued was at fault for at least one of the other goals at Anfield, slightly improved against Newcastle, still looked shaky at times which the other three defenders didn’t and didn’t really look great for Shelvey’s goal. 

While we have injuries he’s certainly got the chance to stake a claim for the shirt, but if you think he’s done enough to keep it then your opinion differs to mine, he’s been the poorest City performer in both games in my opinion and if Klose or Zimmermann are fit are first choice ahead of Hanley.

Not being negative, he’ll get full support from every city fan, and not his fault he’s just not as good as our other three CB, but that shows how strong we are in our squad.

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16 minutes ago, Indy said:

But the real question is has he played well or just done a job? He scored an own goal under no pressure, could be argued was at fault for at least one of the other goals at Anfield, slightly improved against Newcastle, still looked shaky at times which the other three defenders didn’t and didn’t really look great for Shelvey’s goal. 

While we have injuries he’s certainly got the chance to stake a claim for the shirt, but if you think he’s done enough to keep it then your opinion differs to mine, he’s been the poorest City performer in both games in my opinion and if Klose or Zimmermann are fit are first choice ahead of Hanley.

Not being negative, he’ll get full support from every city fan, and not his fault he’s just not as good as our other three CB, but that shows how strong we are in our squad.

Not arguing with any of that Indy, my point is that he might not have performed to the level of the other 3 defenders, there may be better options when the other CB's come back fit.

Regardless, however many points are put forward to back up the argument,  the decision rests with Farke, and apart from Marshall and Husband I'm struggling to remember any player actually dropped last season. 

As I said earlier, my preferred choice in midfield would be Leitner, once he got injured, he was replaced by Mario who then got injured himself, giving Kenny the opportunity. 

There were calls on here to bring Mo back once fit but Farke stuck with Kenny through to the end of the season. Regardless of who we think is the better player, Farke's record suggests that he will stick with the man with the shirt...... that said, if he does indeed drop Hanley, or anyone else, expect them to go the same way as Marshall and Husband. 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, splendidrush said:

Not arguing with any of that Indy, my point is that he might not have performed to the level of the other 3 defenders, there may be better options when the other CB's come back fit.

Regardless, however many points are put forward to back up the argument,  the decision rests with Farke, and apart from Marshall and Husband I'm struggling to remember any player actually dropped last season. 

As I said earlier, my preferred choice in midfield would be Leitner, once he got injured, he was replaced by Mario who then got injured himself, giving Kenny the opportunity. 

There were calls on here to bring Mo back once fit but Farke stuck with Kenny through to the end of the season. Regardless of who we think is the better player, Farke's record suggests that he will stick with the man with the shirt...... that said, if he does indeed drop Hanley, or anyone else, expect them to go the same way as Marshall and Husband. 

And you’re right, but after the first six games in which you could see the signs yet we conceded far too many goals, Hanley was replaced, the next 40 games we were far better and those who came in staked a claim not to be dropped, you can’t say the same of a player who’s conceded 5 goals in two games which three of those goals could be attributed to him directly.

So I agree with you but don’t see Lakeys argument of Hanley deserving the place because we won! Every player needs to perform and warrant his selection.

All about opinions and Farke is a very good man manager who played Hanley up, so to signal him out must show signs of Hanley needing to improve this weekend or Klose will be in the following game.

Edited by Indy

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16 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:
17 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Jees, I'm starting to wonder if I am the only person who has taken any notice of how Farke operates

Its only how YOU THINK he operates, no one would be as stupid to have a thought process that is so limiting. Its not a black /white, on/off matter.

Actually, in this case it is fairly black and white.  It's a fairly easy man management policy to understand - to keep all players in the squad on board,  you don't drop a player when the team is doing well.  It means they all know exactly where they stand and there will be no - or very few exceptions to that general rule.

The ones that can't get back in the team (even if they think or are perecived as "better" players) understand why, the players that are in the team know that if the team does well they will keep their places.  It's exactly how things went last season and there can be no complaints because the team is doing well and they know it won't be changed as long as that is the case.

We are almost bound to see more changes this season because we will may lose more matches (not many, hopefully) but the general man management principle of promoting good incentive by rewarding players in a winning team (and a drawing one if last season's team selections are anything to go by) is bound to cointinue.  Farke has said time and time again he trusts all his players - it is part of his incentivising the whole squad.  He may think such and such is a better player, but he would not risk de-incentivising other players by dropping them after a good team performance. 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Actually, in this case it is fairly black and white.  It's a fairly easy man management policy to understand - to keep all players in the squad on board,  you don't drop a player when the team is doing well.  It means they all know exactly where they stand and there will be no - or very few exceptions to that general rule.

The ones that can't get back in the team (even if they think or are perecived as "better" players) understand why, the players that are in the team know that if the team does well they will keep their places.  It's exactly how things went last season and there can be no complaints because the team is doing well and they know it won't be changed as long as that is the case.

We are almost bound to see more changes this season because we will may lose more matches (not many, hopefully) but the general man management principle of promoting good incentive by rewarding players in a winning team (and a drawing one if last season's team selections are anything to go by) is bound to cointinue.  Farke has said time and time again he trusts all his players - it is part of his incentivising the whole squad.  He may think such and such is a better player, but he would not risk de-incentivising other players by dropping them after a good team performance. 

 

I see you've  started on volume  two of your   book already.   I  wont be reading  it as it looks like a rehashed  version of the first. Which I found badly researched  and contained too many unfounded suppositions. 

Name one manager ever who has said' I dont trust my players,  or one who would single out a poor performance from a player that he had  no other choice but to play.  

Farke is cleverer  than that, as are just about all managers/ head coaches that make it to this level.  I'm sure that whenever hanly is replaced   Farke will not say it's because  so and so is better, it'll be for tactical reasons, as he as already alluded  to. If you get my drift, which I doubt, as you continue your campaign to convince  us that the shirt is hanleys  as long as the team performs well. 

Good day.

Edited by wcorkcanary

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Actually, in this case it is fairly black and white.  It's a fairly easy man management policy to understand - to keep all players in the squad on board,  you don't drop a player when the team is doing wellIt means they all know exactly where they stand and there will be no - or very few exceptions to that general rule.

 

You realise this is total nonsense right?

Squad rotation is a commonplace across the league. Liverpool hammered us 4-1, then made changes for the Super Cup final and further changes for the next fixture. I'm sure these players are totally comfortable with where they stand and Klopp is known for being an excellent man manager.

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1 minute ago, king canary said:

You realise this is total nonsense right?

Squad rotation is a commonplace across the league. Liverpool hammered us 4-1, then made changes for the Super Cup final and further changes for the next fixture. I'm sure these players are totally comfortable with where they stand and Klopp is known for being an excellent man manager.

I'm not going to argue the toss with him any more  Kingo , he can't or won't  realise what a silly non negotiable position  he's  taken and will defend it ad nauseam.  And for that reason....... I'm out .

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11 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

I see you've  started on volume  two of your   book already.   I  wont be reading  it as it looks like a rehashed  version of the first. Which I found badly researched  and contained too many unfounded suppositions. 

Name one manager ever who has said' I dont trust my players,  or one who would single out a poor performance from a player that he had  no other choice but to play.  

Farke is cleverer  than that, as are just about all managers/ head coaches that make it to this level.  I'm sure that whenever hanly is replaced   Farke will not say it's because  so and so is better, it'll be for tactical reasons, as he as already alluded  to. If you get my drift, which I doubt.  

We'll just have to disagree.  In my view Farke's attitude to his players and the way he handles them is more consistent than nearly any other manager I can think of - he practically never changes a team that is doing well - and after Saturday, witnessing the best football seen at CR for many years, it would be churlish and counter productive to drop any player other than through injury.

It is also why the young players coming in have done so well, being trusted to continue and being allowed to develop while the team is doing well, rather than bring back experienced, possibly better players.   

As I said, it's the way Farke works - and he has simple but superbly effective squad management that rewards good team performances.  It's all about the team, not the individual. Win/draw and happy days, but lose a match or two.....then you might see changes. 

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

You realise this is total nonsense right?

Squad rotation is a commonplace across the league. Liverpool hammered us 4-1, then made changes for the Super Cup final and further changes for the next fixture. I'm sure these players are totally comfortable with where they stand and Klopp is known for being an excellent man manager.

I am staggered that so many people on here cannot understand the way Farke goes about things.  We are not other clubs. We do not have a Klopp clone as a manager - we have a unique personality who has worked out the best way to motivate a squad and get the best out of them - and we are playing football way above a lot of people's expectations as a result. 

We are doing so well because we are doing things differently to nearly everyone else out there......open your eyes!

 

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