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hogesar

Ever felt so comfortable?

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On 18/08/2019 at 16:25, East Rider said:

I saw a lot of the 92/93 team and many seasons either side. This team has 3 or at a push possibly 4 better players but we are playing in a far far better league. Who knows where we will end up, but both the first games are good indications of our worth.

That said, yesterday did not surprise me at all, despite the usual self important pre match cr4p from Newcastle fans (there will be plenty of other teams supporters to do the same and end up with egg on their faces) they were fortunate to get away from CR with it only 3-1.

Leitner was definitely destined for this league and he and Tom Trybull together, were superb for this match.

 

 

Agree with this. I’ve been a season ticket holder since the late 70’s and agree there are players in this team that are ridiculously good. The 92-93 team were a great team but arguably had no stars. 

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I don't blame GH for the Newcastle goal, Shelvey was allowed to run unmarked into our box. It was a team failure, we had changed personnel and switched off. 

Apparently, there were heated words about it in the dressing room. 

GH will do a job against Giroud. An old fashioned CF vs an old fashioned CH. 

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19 minutes ago, yellowandgreen said:

Agree with this. I’ve been a season ticket holder since the late 70’s and agree there are players in this team that are ridiculously good. The 92-93 team were a great team but arguably had no stars. 

But football has evolved so it's all relative. I'd argue that Crook could easily be compared with Leitner. Crook considered one of the best English players never to be capped by England, Leitner will be the German equivalent at this rate. 

But pitches are half synthetic now, boots weight half as much, balls are lighter and more aerodynamic.... Crooky still had to try and be a playmaker on pitches which had more mud than grass. So its not a simple direct comparison. 

Chris Sutton went for a British record fee the following year based on his performances that season. What would we have to sell a player for next season to achieve that feat again? I don't actually know the answer but Maguire just went for over £80m didn't he?

Ruel Fox a great winger and went on to play at the top level for years? 

Jeremy Goss bang average but famous throughout the country for some of his worldies. 

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All you say is true. Crook was a fabulous player as were the others you mention. That is why I said arguably.

There are players in the current team who are going to be world class. Lewis, Godfrey, Aarons, Beundia.

We are very lucky to be NCFC supporters right now. Never felt more excited for the season ahead of us. 

OTBC

 

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6 hours ago, Ramrod said:

I don't blame GH for the Newcastle goal, Shelvey was allowed to run unmarked into our box. It was a team failure, we had changed personnel and switched off. 

Apparently, there were heated words about it in the dressing room. 

GH will do a job against Giroud. An old fashioned CF vs an old fashioned CH. 

Thank you Ramrod, especially for showing some common sense. The TEAM win together and lose together.

The amount of negativity towards GH on here is shameful. He has been pilloried for making "a mistake" in allowing the Shelvey goal. However, maybe he distracted or pressurised Joelinton sufficiently to put him off his header? 

Every player makes mistakes, but when certain members of the "unofficial Pinkun player bashing brigade" decide upon player X then woe betide anyone who tries to put in a differing opinion!

I'm really pleased that certain people think that CZ & TK are better than GH - it means that people can be confident that we have excellent back up should anything happen to our incumbents. In addition, I'm also really pleased that DF is the head coach instead of some of these keyboard know-it-alls.

BTW - the story is that GH had "cramped up" prior to the Shelvey goal, but as there was no CB back up, he had to continue. Have you ever had to try and run and turn when you have ever had cramp? You should try it sometime and see how far you get.

In essence - why can't people stop being so negative to one of our own - it's not a right of passage you know.

Early morning rant over :classic_biggrin:

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8 hours ago, Ramrod said:

I don't blame GH for the Newcastle goal, Shelvey was allowed to run unmarked into our box. It was a team failure, we had changed personnel and switched off. 

Apparently, there were heated words about it in the dressing room. 

GH will do a job against Giroud. An old fashioned CF vs an old fashioned CH. 

To be frank, it wasn't a team failure, Shelvey's run got tracked to roughly the edge of the box where the midfielder (vrancic?) can be clearly seen handing him off to the defence and pointing in the direction of the run. The defence didn't pick him up straight away, however, looking at the highlights it looks like the defender he was being handed off to was actually Godfrey as Hanley wasn't yet back in position from tracking the previous runner he'd just handed off to tettey...

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Agreed, it was initially a Vrancic to defense hand off problem. And after that Hanley didn’t cover himself in glory, although Shelvey did sell him a good dummy. If the team had strong words with each other about that, rather than just shrugging their shoulders, I think that is a good sign. 

IMO Hanley will be one of our CB’s v Chelsea -  and probably until the int’l break to make sure Klose and Zimmermann can fully recuperate.

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Can we ban the word scapegoat? I swear nobody on here actually knows what it means.

This is a football discussion forum. If people don't think a player played well they should be able to say so without people immediately claiming they are scapegoating them or wanking on about 'getting behind the player' as if a positive post on this forum makes a blind bit of difference to how Hanley plays.

If the crowd in the stadium are turning on him then fair enough to complain. But don't join a discussion forum if you don't want any actual discussion of players performances.

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It was a poor goal to give away (aren't they all) a collective failure really - but Hanley was a bit slow to pick up Shelvey - he looked as if he was just concentrating on just getting back into position rather than looking where the danger was.  Collective thing though for me, Tettey had moved out to cover someone and there where five Newcastle men forward at that point - so someone else needed to have got back to give the defence a bit more support.  Defend as a team attack as a team......but you can forgive them one goal when they have performed so brilliantly to get three ahead, playing scintillating football. 

Shame to not get the clean sheet...but it is something they can learn from.....a kind of reminder you have to keep the intensity up, whatever the state of the game.  They will need that against Chelsea, but overall the game against Newcastle was a good warm up game for the next match.

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We still seem to be very slow to get going after the half time break, always a period in the game where I dont feel so comfortable!

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GH will probably start on Saturday and why not? He is a strong leader in our pack and we will need this when they begin their inevitable onslaught towards our goal come 12.30pm.

If, Emi Buendia and Marco S can recover some more of their form from last season and if, our home support doesn't waver we may, possibly have a chance this early in the season.

Make no mistake this is a must win game for Frank Lampard's Chelsea and he will have them fired up to the max against a team he will see as much inferior. Just hope we can hold on for the first 25 mins then assert ourselves on the game.

Either way it is going to be a great match.

Keep the noise coming from the stands, no matter what the score and who knows what we could achieve. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Of cause it was ultimately Hanleys mistake. He was easily turned in a position that left the player with a comfortable finish. This isn’t Ronaldo turning him inside out, it’s Shelvey. As has already been said by myself and now King Canary, this is a football discussion forum and if some people can’t handle having these discussions then I don’t understand why they come on here? No one on this thread or any other thread has turned against Hanley and no one isn’t giving him their support. My opinion has been and remains to be that Hanley will do a good job in there but when Zimmerman is back and ready to go he will continue the partnership with Godfrey 

Edited by JF

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

Can we ban the word scapegoat? I swear nobody on here actually knows what it means.

This is a football discussion forum. If people don't think a player played well they should be able to say so without people immediately claiming they are scapegoating them or wanking on about 'getting behind the player' as if a positive post on this forum makes a blind bit of difference to how Hanley plays.

If the crowd in the stadium are turning on him then fair enough to complain. But don't join a discussion forum if you don't want any actual discussion of players performances.

That's fair, but equally scapegoating does happen on this forum. Hanley might not be a case in point but there are plenty of examples where people feel the need to pick out one particular player despite evidence to the contrary.

In our first season under Farke it was Vrancic, who I was told, whilst defending him, "had no ability", "offers nothing", should "f off back to Germany", is "too slow", who "cant tackle" and "constantly gives the ball away" - yet all the stats and performances actually told a completely different story. What had happened is a couple of slightly indifferent performances adjusting to the league enabled this group of fans to vent their frustration all onto one player.

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22 minutes ago, JF said:

My opinion has been and remains to be that Hanley will do a good job in there but when Zimmerman is back and ready to go he will continue the partnership with Godfrey 

My opinion is that Hanley will continue to keep his place, regardless of whether Zimmerman is fit, as long as he does a good job. 

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, splendidrush said:

My opinion is that Hanley will continue to keep his place, regardless of whether Zimmerman is fit, as long as he does a good job. 

That’s fair enough. Would you say that so far if Zimmerman were fit he deserved to keep his place though? I think he had two fairly solid games but has made two mistakes that have both resulted in goals against. I also believe that Zimmerman is a better player in the way that Farke wants to play the game. I also believe that in some people’s defence of Hanley against literally no criticism whatsoever they are forgetting just how good Zimmerman was last season.

Edited by JF

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I'd like to see some balance when discussing players' performances. Hanley did a great job on Joelinton, a £40m striker, time and time again. Dave Freezer picked out an instance where his positioning prevented Joelinton from turning with the ball and it became evident how frustrated Joelinton became as the match went on until he was subbed. With Shelvey, cramp was a factor but credit Shelvey for a good move. It was strange, given our CB situation, that Amadou wasn't on the bench as an option. What if one of our CBs had been injured or sent off?

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Yelloow Since 72 said:

I'd like to see some balance when discussing players' performances. Hanley did a great job on Joelinton, a £40m striker, time and time again. Dave Freezer picked out an instance where his positioning prevented Joelinton from turning with the ball and it became evident how frustrated Joelinton became as the match went on until he was subbed. With Shelvey, cramp was a factor but credit Shelvey for a good move. It was strange, given our CB situation, that Amadou wasn't on the bench as an option. What if one of our CBs had been injured or sent off?

I’d also like to see balance when discussing tehe player that is out injured. The opinion on here by some seems to be that because Hanley has played two games and been fairly solid that the position and shirt are his. Completely disregarding that the player who he is standing in for who’s injured was immense last season, came second in player of the season behind Pukki and is simply a far superior defender and footballer. The team comes first and I think Farke will be it itching to get him back in. Until then Hanley will hopefully stand in and perform superbly 

Edited by JF

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On 18/08/2019 at 17:27, Yellow Fever said:

Yes ER - My concern is that we always 'big' players up - especially when they are out of action and another holds the shirt in difficult circumstances - a baptism of fire. I recall last year it was Cantwell in for Emi etc. who got the stick. Hanley didn't have the perfect start against L'Pool but we have no evidence (just a hope) the Zimmo can step up to the EPL and also if I recall Klose gave away a howler in pre-season to Atalanta. Neither may have actually done any better - could even have been worse! So until such time as DF thinks he has better it's Hanley's shrt to lose.

This is a perfect example. “Bigging up players who are out injured” I’m sorry did you miss his performances last season? There’s a reason why he was voted 2nd in player of the season.

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3 hours ago, Van wink said:

We still seem to be very slow to get going after the half time break, always a period in the game where I dont feel so comfortable!

At least we didn't concede the customary goal just before the break😀

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For me it isn't just about a player's performances. Zimbo's attributes and playing style suit Farkeball much better than Hanley's, which is why DF will want him back in asap. Not Hanley's fault, especially as he's worked hard to adapt his game to Farkeball, but Zimbo is the better fit and will strengthen us when he returns.

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1 minute ago, Yelloow Since 72 said:

For me it isn't just about a player's performances. Zimbo's attributes and playing style suit Farkeball much better than Hanley's, which is why DF will want him back in asap. Not Hanley's fault, especially as he's worked hard to adapt his game to Farkeball, but Zimbo is the better fit and will strengthen us when he returns.

Exactly 

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2 hours ago, JF said:

I also believe that Zimmerman is a better player in the way that Farke wants to play the game. I also believe that in some people’s defence of Hanley against literally no criticism whatsoever they are forgetting just how good Zimmerman was last season.

I believe that Leitner is our best midfielder to play alongside Tom, Alex or Amadou. However, once he got injured against Blackburn, we didn't see him again, with first Mario then Kenny keeping the shirt. 

There seems to be an idea that Hanley is 4th choice but the way I see it, he's got the gig until he gives Farke a reason to take it away. Yes big Zimm has been very impressive but if GH continues to perform he's going to have time to get fit, before serving some time on the bench. 

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6 minutes ago, splendidrush said:

I believe that Leitner is our best midfielder to play alongside Tom, Alex or Amadou. However, once he got injured against Blackburn, we didn't see him again, with first Mario then Kenny keeping the shirt. 

There seems to be an idea that Hanley is 4th choice but the way I see it, he's got the gig until he gives Farke a reason to take it away. Yes big Zimm has been very impressive but if GH continues to perform he's going to have time to get fit, before serving some time on the bench. 

Farke saw him as 4th choice last season at a lower level so there is no reason to believe he has suddenly become a starting player every week in the PL. had we not been so unfortunate with injuries he wouldn’t have been playing these last two games for this discussion to even be taking place. Again there appears to be this opinion that if he continues to perform the shirt Is his. Let’s just point out here that he’s been relatively solid in the two games he’s played but certainly hasn’t done enough to suggest he should be keeping a fully fit Zimmerman out of the team. As has already been pointed out by myself and others it’s not just that Zimmerman is a better defender, he plays the way Farke wants us to play. If it’s a case of once injured you ain’t coming back in then let’s hope that Pukki stays fit or we could be done!

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3 hours ago, hogesar said:

That's fair, but equally scapegoating does happen on this forum. Hanley might not be a case in point but there are plenty of examples where people feel the need to pick out one particular player despite evidence to the contrary.

In our first season under Farke it was Vrancic, who I was told, whilst defending him, "had no ability", "offers nothing", should "f off back to Germany", is "too slow", who "cant tackle" and "constantly gives the ball away" - yet all the stats and performances actually told a completely different story. What had happened is a couple of slightly indifferent performances adjusting to the league enabled this group of fans to vent their frustration all onto one player.

Sounds a bit like you with Ryan Bennett to be honest 😉

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Why is it that people are still trying to rank our players when the manager has stated over and over that all the players are trusted and able to play in the first team?   We have a squad, we have four central defenders and any of them are considered by the manager to be able to go in there and do a job. 

Hanley started last season and was captain and first choice when the season started - and only lost his place through injury. Unfortunate for him because the form of Zimbo and Godfrey kept him - and Klose too - out of the team, not because they were "worse players" but that those with the shirt were doing the business and Farke does not often drop people when the team is doing well.

He will stay in the team as long as it is doing well - that is the simple and clear motivation strategy that Farke uses that players - and fans - can understand.  We lost against Liverpool and DF acted by changing one player.  If we keep winning or drawing and playing well, why would he change anything, when his strategy is to reward players for playing well by letting them keep the shirt?

 

 

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Hanley is a totally admirable bloke, but I think an (up to speed) Zimbo would have cut out the cross that gave Joelinton his chance.

Also I don't think we'd have conceded the Newcastle goal if we'd been 2-1 up. It's difficult to maintain total concentration when you're totally knackered, in injury time & 3-0 up!

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44 minutes ago, splendidrush said:

I believe that Leitner is our best midfielder to play alongside Tom, Alex or Amadou. However, once he got injured against Blackburn, we didn't see him again, with first Mario then Kenny keeping the shirt. 

There seems to be an idea that Hanley is 4th choice but the way I see it, he's got the gig until he gives Farke a reason to take it away. Yes big Zimm has been very impressive but if GH continues to perform he's going to have time to get fit, before serving some time on the bench. 

That was the case last season, but, what happened last match? Kenny was on the bench and leitner started, because he was the better player. Hanley can do a job for us, but it is not his shirt to loose, it is his shirt to keep warm until one of our preferred defenders becomes available... 

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15 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Why is it that people are still trying to rank our players when the manager has stated over and over that all the players are trusted and able to play in the first team?   We have a squad, we have four central defenders and any of them are considered by the manager to be able to go in there and do a job. 

Hanley started last season and was captain and first choice when the season started - and only lost his place through injury. Unfortunate for him because the form of Zimbo and Godfrey kept him - and Klose too - out of the team, not because they were "worse players" but that those with the shirt were doing the business and Farke does not often drop people when the team is doing well.

He will stay in the team as long as it is doing well - that is the simple and clear motivation strategy that Farke uses that players - and fans - can understand.  We lost against Liverpool and DF acted by changing one player.  If we keep winning or drawing and playing well, why would he change anything, when his strategy is to reward players for playing well by letting them keep the shirt?

 

 

Anyone would think that Hanley has put it two man of the match performances from some of the nonsense posted on here. He’s stood in and done well enough, made mistakes that have been costly and hasnt pulled up any trees. Irrelevant of how you see it players are defined by their relative ability. Zimmerman was our best defender last season, voted second in player of the season but apparently none of that matters  because Hanley now has the shirt! Absolute nonsense. 

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2 minutes ago, cornish sam said:
48 minutes ago, splendidrush said:

I believe that Leitner is our best midfielder to play alongside Tom, Alex or Amadou. However, once he got injured against Blackburn, we didn't see him again, with first Mario then Kenny keeping the shirt. 

There seems to be an idea that Hanley is 4th choice but the way I see it, he's got the gig until he gives Farke a reason to take it away. Yes big Zimm has been very impressive but if GH continues to perform he's going to have time to get fit, before serving some time on the bench. 

That was the case last season, but, what happened last match? Kenny was on the bench and leitner started, because he was the better player. Hanley can do a job for us, but it is not his shirt to loose, it is his shirt to keep warm until one of our preferred defenders becomes available... 

But the reason for the change against Newcastle was that we lost the Liverpool match and Leitner clearly made a huge difference when he came on - so it was fair to change the player.  Hanley has just featured in a drubbing of Newcastle and if we keep playing well and picking up points (including this Saturday) Farke's policy is to keep players in. Lose a match or two and it can change, but that is why people say it is his shirt to lose.....it's because it's the manager's way of working.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

But the reason for the change against Newcastle was that we lost the Liverpool match and Leitner clearly made a huge difference when he came on - so it was fair to change the player.  Hanley has just featured in a drubbing of Newcastle and if we keep playing well and picking up points (including this Saturday) Farke's policy is to keep players in. Lose a match or two and it can change, but that is why people say it is his shirt to lose.....it's because it's the manager's way of working.

As I’ve said I’ve no interest in a Hanley bashing thread but this notion that if he continues to perform the shirt is his is based on nothing. If you break down his two performances he’ll have to improve greatly to keep the shirt. He’s stood in and done ok, nothing more. And done nothing to suggest he should be keeping Zimmerman out. I find it absolutely baffling that this is even a discussion! Maybe if he’s played two blinders the argument would be valid but he hasn’t, all of a sudden two average performances are good enough to replace a season of superb performances

Edited by JF

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