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Old Boy

The enigma that is Paul McVeigh

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Could it be that, with half a season to go before he gets his P45, he''s starting to make an effort? It seems possible, and if that''s the case, is it sensible to try to re-sign someone who, like that flake Darren Kenton, has huge talent, but will only use it when he has to? It''s a conundrum. But in any case, I''m willing to bet that he''ll continue to play like this until the end of the season, attract a good contract from another club, and leave us on a free. Like Darren Kenton, in fact. And that would be a blow in a way.

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WHAT ENIGMA?!?!?   so he finally gets a run of games and plays well???  So he looks quiet when we hoof the ball up to him!?!  so he is given a game once in a blue moon and doesnt impress???

Im sorry its just crap management.  A player the manager didnt want to play has saved him his job and hopefully rejuvinated our season!!

hopefully Jason Jarrett will come back a rejuvinated player too.

god Andy hughes has played well for him all season and he hasnt done crap all

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He has been given a run in the team, thats why he''s playing well. keep him there and he will shine. Paul mcveigh on form is a very very good player and we cant afford to lose him. Sign him up, sign him up, sign him up.

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No-one doubts his skill, just his motivation and his commitment to the Club. "A run in the team"??? If all players needed that to begin to play well, where would we be now? Did Charlton need that yesterday? And to blame man-management is  facile and absolves the player of any responsibility for his own performance (and that''s what''s really changed in the last few games - players have started to take responsibility). No, though I love the football McVeigh plays when he''s on song, he''s not reliable. But I''d hate to see him go elsewhere.

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"did charlton need that yesterday" - actually old boy in the few appearances simon charlton has been given this season he also has been dreadful.

And yes a run in the team, no not all players need it but some do - if you are that old you should already realise this - and yes where are we now??  finally in the top half but still in a not very good position.

I''m sorry but i have seen the stats of how mcveigh has effected games this year and to be honest if he has a bad game would not be surprised if worthy dropped him.

Its funny how mcveigh playing well contributes to NCFC wins - andy hughes playing well contributes to nothing - unyet i no who is first on the teamsheet in our esteemed managers eyes

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Totally agree that Charlton has under-performed in his games earlier this season - along with 80% of the rest of the team at that stage, but it isn''t necessary, certainly for a player of McVeigh''s footballing talent, to play 3 or 4 games before you show your ability. Last season, McVeigh was over-weight and visibly unfit, and basically took a year out. However much you wish to blame the manager for that, it''s up to a player who is being well-paid to maintain his fitness, whether in the first-team squad or not. So that argument has no merit.

If McVeigh has a bad game then, yes, his place should be up for grabs, as for any other player. In fact, more so, if the manager''s assessment of the situation is that he''s likely to go elsewhere, with no financial benefit to NCFC (which is what I fear). Why should we provide a shop window for players who aren''t performing?

And you''re also wrong about Hughes - no great surprise there. He''s contributed substantially, during a very poor spell for the whole of the team. He''s had goal assists, and has generally tried his best to galvanise a very lazy team. But don''t let facts get in the way of a bandwagon. I just hope he gets the chance to weather all the anti-Hughes garbage in the same way that NW and the Board are on the way to doing.

McVeigh is a very good player (exceptionally good by our standards), but footballing talent is only one factor in a player''s value to his Club. Collectively more important are consistency, reliability and commitment to the Club. There have been many hugely skilful players (e.g. David Ginola - one of the best players I''ve seen) whose overall contribution to his Club has been almost negligible.

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McVeigh does not have the physicality for the Premier League which is becoming more about big athletes.

But is the Championship kick and rush he is priceless as he can operate in congested areas around the penalty area and open sides up.

Obviously I have been watching WLY through rose tinted specs so would those who have been critical please list some matches where he has been patently not trying or culpably underperforming and please do so in the context of the rest of the squad.

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ok, old boy - I will give you that McVeigh was not fit last season.  I do also beleive that there seems to be far less reserve games than there used to be ( i may be totally wrong here tho :-) ) which doesnt help with fitness and motivation of players not in the side - but if you havent played for a long time it can take time to get back in the fold.

If NW cant get the best out of players in reserve then that is his problem -> i dont see Paul Jewell having any such problems at wigan.  The fact that Mcveigh when played had played in some good performances then is dropped after Wolves (In which the midfield was totally shocking and we kept hoofing it downfield) its no wonder he didnt have a good game. he was then dropped and it took 2 exceptional performances as substitute to get him back in the side.

As for Hughes, im sorry but all i see is a player who runs about endlessly gives the ball away reguarly and generally looks substandard.  For a center midfielder he just isnt good enough for a top team.

Every comment reading fans said about him has been shown to be true -> nice bloke not a lot of ability.

As for contribution to the club!?!?!?! im sorry his goal in the last minute at bradford, i could go on here but i wont - paul has been and hopefully will be a talented player on the books. When he gets involved in the game he makes us play on the deck which in itself is a miracle having seen too much long ball shananigans this season.

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Having been at the game yesterday, I thought I''d just mention that McVeigh played very well considering we had virtually no width, and looked skilful when presented with space and time. At other times he looked a bit lightweight - but genreally looked a good player. As for Simon Charlton, I thought he played very well. Not particularly creative, but ran his arse off, got stuck in, and broke up the play of Sheff Utd. On the whole, Norwich looked very committed, and if we can sustain that level of performance, we will be top 6 for sure.

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[quote user="Rudolph Hucker"]

McVeigh does not have the physicality for the Premier League which is becoming more about big athletes.

But is the Championship kick and rush he is priceless as he can operate in congested areas around the penalty area and open sides up.

Obviously I have been watching WLY through rose tinted specs so would those who have been critical please list some matches where he has been patently not trying or culpably underperforming and please do so in the context of the rest of the squad.

[/quote]

ok

sub 4 minutes against leeds

78 minutes against mk dons

sub 30 minutes against Stoke (we had 10 men)

73 minutes in the 2 nil win over plymouth

dropped for brennan sub 45 mins in the watford away (we won the 2nd half 1 nil)

79 minutes in the 1 nil win over ipswich

dropped 30mins in the 2 nil win over northampton

62 mins in the 1 nil defeat to Reading

90 mins in the 2 1 victory over hull

90 mins in the 3 1 victory over brighton (scored)

90 mins in the 1-1 draw with millwall

45 mins in the 4 2 defeat at luton

45 mins in the 3 0 defeat at QPR - obviously he was the reason we lost these games so badly  just so you no Andy Hughes was also playing in both these games and charlton in midfield hendo and brennan

sub 3 mins against birmingham

64 mins against wolves

sub 9 minutes against millwall

sub 42 minutes against cov

about 45 as sub agaiunst derby you no the rest

I think he was calpablely blamed in the away games vs luton QPR and wolves altho our midfield was shocking in these 3 matches people like brennan jarrett hughes charlton hendo made up the midfield 4.  not a great start....

so i think you are looking thru rose tinted specs but the recent upsurge has been as much to do with him than anything else

 

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Paul McVeigh is awesome. And to think that if Thorne had not got injured early in the Crewe match he would never have got a chance. Its hard to believe we are talking about 8 million for Ashton when atm McVeigh is in amazing form.

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Prior to this season, you have to go back to the promotion season, pre-Huckerby, to see McVeigh performing at all consistently. When Huckerby arrived it seemed to knock him out of kilter and he stopped being an influence, whereas I''d hoped that the two of them together would have been formidable. Then he lapsed into mediocrity. The season prior to that he''d been the shining light in a general sea of mediocrity (14 goals): he made the games worth watching. He''s that sort of player, able to light up a game. NW has made it clear many times that he knows PMV''s talents, and if you believe that a manager would wilfully not play a player with that much talent without justification, then you are being very, umm, naive. A telling fact is that PMV was not being selected for the Northern Ireland squad, even before he "retired from international football".

I disagree about him not being capable of Premiership football. Much too much emphasis is put on the size of players, particularly attackers. There are many example of successful players of 5''6" and less: it just depends on the player. The speed of thought is much more important than the biomass. He can tackle, pass, run as well as most taller players. No-one''s told SW-P that he''s too small or lightweight.

In case anyone''s in any doubt - I love the guy. I just hate to see the talent go to waste when it should have been helping NCFC.

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[quote user="Northern Canary"]Paul McVeigh is awesome. And to think that if Thorne had not got injured early in the Crewe match he would never have got a chance. Its hard to believe we are talking about 8 million for Ashton when atm McVeigh is in amazing form.[/quote]

its funny northern but i was thinking the other day - if paul mcveigh played as well as he can week in week out he probably wouldnt be a norwich city player anymore.

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[quote user="Old Boy"]

Prior to this season, you have to go back to the promotion season, pre-Huckerby, to see McVeigh performing at all consistently. When Huckerby arrived it seemed to knock him out of kilter and he stopped being an influence, whereas I''d hoped that the two of them together would have been formidable. Then he lapsed into mediocrity. The season prior to that he''d been the shining light in a general sea of mediocrity (14 goals): he made the games worth watching. He''s that sort of player, able to light up a game. NW has made it clear many times that he knows PMV''s talents, and if you believe that a manager would wilfully not play a player with that much talent without justification, then you are being very, umm, naive. A telling fact is that PMV was not being selected for the Northern Ireland squad, even before he "retired from international football".

I disagree about him not being capable of Premiership football. Much too much emphasis is put on the size of players, particularly attackers. There are many example of successful players of 5''6" and less: it just depends on the player. The speed of thought is much more important than the biomass. He can tackle, pass, run as well as most taller players. No-one''s told SW-P that he''s too small or lightweight.

In case anyone''s in any doubt - I love the guy. I just hate to see the talent go to waste when it should have been helping NCFC.

[/quote]

a good observation  OB !   ,what your saying is that he went into a  jealous celtic sulk  when  Hucks arrived  ?    ... it fits ! 

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Good points one and all. It seems fair that ''enigma'' is in the title of the thread. The perspiration/inspiration equation is the managers dilemma but I think you have to make some allowances for creative players.

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the recent performances of mcveigh are of the same calibre from the pre-promotion season, where he played left wing mostly and scored some stunning goals from the edge of the area. at that time 3 years ago, there were some jan window transfer talk linking him with spurs i seem to remember.  after that he never really seemed to get back to that level and certainly, when hucks displaced him from left wing he wasn''t the same player on the right wing.  He didn''t convince me along side roberts, but when he played alongside deano against hull, they looked a natural pairing - worthy gushed at our performance that night and having found his best 11 contrived not to pick them again.

i''m not convinvced worthy is the best manager for mcveigh, and if he has to leave to further his career then he''s certainly doing his best to put himself in the shop window - he knows from his mate mulryne, that earning good contracts when you''ve been a fringe player is next to impossible. if he''s in and out of the team, not many clubs will be in for him come the summer.

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For me consistency is a two way street and comes from the manager as well as the player.

Last season WLY gave an above average performance against spurs on boxing day yet was blamed for the defeat and was subsequently sent to coventry as the club went through a midfield crisis - superb man management.

This season the club only started playing well when WLY appeared against Plymouth in the strikers role and was excellenet against Tahn and then Brighton in particular.   The game after brighton we played a long ball game and once again changed his position so we was no longer off the attacker.  The ball passed over him and so his ability was wasted.   In that game (Millwall) he looked threatening when he got the ball but we did not get it too him long enough.  Worthy is all to ready to drop him or sacrifice him for another striker (Lisbie FGS!!) rather than give him a run in the proper position

As I posted elsewhere and Paul R has summarised here WLY srecord this season is consistent - he has proven to be one of our top performers and in only two games where he has played more than a half have we lost (Derby & Wolves), we have one drawn and now 9 wins.

Yet today we have another insulting cry from the manager wanting more consistency from him. Several MOTM awards (incl the rarity of one from the bench)  and a higher win % than any other player in the squad yet he is the one being pushed for more consistency???  I cant see the managers favs being pushed this way.

Give WLY a decent run in his best position (with Ashton) and we have already seen what he can do this season - and he has done it for more than 3 games.  Worthy says he is sick of 3 good games and 26 bad  well WLY has never had a 26 game bad spell; it is well over 2 years since he had to sort of run in the team to start with!  This year is the first time in 3 seasons that he has been extensively used and only then because the manager could neither sell him in the summer nor get in a decent replacement. 

WLY has played well this season when not wasted by the manager, it is a shame the manager was backed into a corner through injuries before being forced to use a talent and even now wont admit the error prefering to focus on an untruthful perceived weakness ahead of praising performances.

 

OTBC

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i agree entirely 3 games good then 26 crap matches what a load of tripe from worthy....

When we long ball it yes WLY looks quiet what does he expect??

I have seen a headless chicken running aimlessly in the center if midfield all season.  Its funny that also robinson whom people have said looks quiet has also been involved in this good run.  He obviously holds a good position and is neat and tidy closing people down  - its no wonder he has been involved in 2 promotions whereas Andy hughes was booed by the reading fans..............

Im sorry but having a player run about randomly like an idiot looking like he could get sent off at any minute is not my idea of a good footballer....  and no suprise captain fantastic has not been involved in this good run

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I agree that consistency comes from both player and manager ZLF, so why are you blaming just the manager?!! If the situation was as unjust as you think, any motivated player with McVeigh''s talent would demand a transfer, surely? It seems to me that McVeigh isn''t at all committed to the Club, but is only driven by short-term self-interest. If your analysis that City only began playing well when McVeigh came on against Plymouth (too sweeping a statement for me), that rather destroys the notion that he needs a run in the team to start playing well.

I repeat again that getting players to perform is a complex problem, and neither the player nor his manager is totally responsible. But the onus always seems to be unfairly on the manager. It seems to me that the reason we are beginning to perform to our potential is because, finally, the players have taken on board that they have been short-changing the Club and the fans. It has very little to do with coaching or personnel or tactics. The fact that it took so long to get through is partly Worthy''s fault, and a serious fault, but really a professional shouldn''t need to be told to do his job properly. I think they saw the abyss, and realised they had to get to work. It''s interesting how it co-incided with Worthy publically slating the players (for the first time) and all the uproar in the media and sites like this. To my mind Worthy''s big faults are that he''s not hard enough, and that he''s too loyal to players who have previously worked hard for him, and I hope he''s learned from this "near-death" experience.

I would love to be proved wrong about McVeigh. We''ll see....

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sorry old boy  i disagree with you.  the players have underperfomed yes, but i see that as a mangaement problem more than anything.  Their confidence has been restored by a motivational guru & winning of course.there''s no doubt mcveigh has not been himself the last 2 seasons, for whatever reason, and probably worthy has supported him up to the hilt privately to help the boy turn things around, but to my mind he hasn''t had a decent enough run given the form he''s shown this year until recently. and if we lose tonight, he''ll be dropped quicker than a hot spud.

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