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lake district canary

£3m or £30m?

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What is the difference between a £3 million player and a £30 million + player? 

We have quite a few players that in a year's time could be worth £30m plus....but did not cost anywhere near that much, either bought for nothing or less than £3m. So what is the difference in quality of those clubs that can buy them when they are worth £30m, than when they were worth a lot less? 

Not huge imo, in most cases just a bit of experience.  So clubs like ours who buy top quality youth in and add a smattering of experienced quality players, have the same raw material as the top clubs who can spend zillions, with us just having them at an earlier stage in their development. My point is....you guessed it....is that with our strategy, we can emulate a club that has ten times the spending power we have. But the question is, can we really do that?  Is the power to buy hugely expensive players so much better than what we are doing?  

Of course you have to have the best possible coaching set up/ethos to get our kind of strategy to work, but it's about bridging the gap and I am hugely optimistic that this can work on a large scale and see us competing at the very top of the league - if not this season, then a season or two down the line. 

So - and I get slated for keep saying this kind of thing - that is how our strategy will allow us to what some will say is "over achieve".  In other words, do better than some clubs who can afford £30m players, who may not have such a good overall strategy in their club, simply because thay are buying in the expensive players, without perhaps having the togetherness that a strategy like ours engenders. 

Money is just money - and yes at the very top it can buy you success, but the rest are just spending huge amounts and not really ever going to get huge success....the Watfords, the Evertons, etc etc. 

So are we really so very different from the many (below top six) clubs who are spending large, or are we just better...or going to be better... because our overall strategy is so good? In other words, is money really the overiding importance to our future, or is it our strategy?  Imo the sky is the limit and we could even compete with the top six as our development continues, but the fact is we are fairly unique in what we are doing - to my knowledge no other club has an overall strategy that is the same or similar to ours, or is there?  We are a fascinating experiment in a world where huge money has in the past seemed to be the only way to succeed...but are we going to change that world? We started doing it only two years ago and so far it has worked spectacularly well, I wonder how far it will take us.  After all, £3m players or 30m players are often the same players, just at a different stage in their development........

 

 

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I they're at a different stage in development, then they're not the same 'player'.

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It is a bit like  buying wine. You can buy a young vintage and hope it matures into a Premier cru or you can buy the finished product.

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1 minute ago, Felixfan said:

It is a bit like  buying wine. You can buy a young vintage and hope it matures into a Premier cru or you can buy the finished product.

If it doesn't work out you can always use it for salad dressing or sprinkle onto fish and chips.

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30 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I they're at a different stage in development, then they're not the same 'player'.

But at what point does an Aarons or a Buendia turn into a £30m+ player?   A month into the PL season?  Two months?   The point is that if the strategy is working - and it seems to be - quite a few of our players will be seen as top players pretty much already, practically the whole of the defence and half the midfield to start with. 

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5 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

But at what point does an Aarons or a Buendia turn into a £30m+ player?   A month into the PL season?  Two months?   The point is that if the strategy is working - and it seems to be - quite a few of our players will be seen as top players pretty much already, practically the whole of the defence and half the midfield to start with. 

Its a market Lakey, they become £30m players as soon as clubs with £30m to spend think they would "help out" their squad, to use that horrible phrase, and we are willing to sell. I don't think any of our guys will be seen as top players until we win some games.

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How long does the togetherness last once players start to get poached and new faces come in. Thats the biggest difference between buying a £3m player still in development and a £30m+ player in their prime. We are potentially developing for another team to have them at their peak.

Dare I say it, what about when you start losing games regularly. It's very easy to have a great dressing room morale and squad togetherness when you are winning every week and winning the league so your group of £3m players "over perform" and value rises. The real test is can it last when you lose more than you win and find yourself in a relegation scrap. If not does their value still rise to £30m, or does it stagnate? Of course we all hope to avoid this sceanrio, but there's a good chance that will be the reality. Will they still pull together, or will it look like last season was one of those "moments in the sun" where everything just seemed to click.

IMO (and I hope i'm right) is that this group will still have a great bond and be willing to work for their team mates and manager, but i've seen it go the other way far too many times in football...

I think an interesting an example would be Sessengnon. In Fulham's promotion season he was being tracked and being looked at by top clubs and crazy numbers like £50m plus were being talked about. Fulham then had a pretty disastorous season in the prem and got relegted, Tottenham end up buying him for £25m...

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7 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

£30m players are proven at the highest level. £3m players are players who aren't.

But what is the actual difference on the pitch?  A £3m player who at some point in the near future is going to be worth £30m+?  Is he not as good a player for us and as soon as he goes to a top club suddenly much better? I don't think so.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Its a market Lakey, they become £30m players as soon as clubs with £30m to spend think they would "help out" their squad, to use that horrible phrase, and we are willing to sell. I don't think any of our guys will be seen as top players until we win some games.

We've had one game! Cripes, give em a chance!

The point, Lakey, is time. And one is never guaranteed that a young player will turn out to be a £30 million player, or even make the grade at all. We are quite fortunate that our young guns at the back have matured so quickly and are now playing brilliantly. This may not happen with all of the youngsters we have, or even two or three of them.

I would say that after an entire season in the Prem and dependent on how they get on, individually, they may be worth a LOT of money. Again, it's what the buying club is prepared to pay and what the selling club wants for the player. If the player really wants to leave and can't give up the opportunity, they would try and find a compromise to make it happen.

Money isn't necessarily going to win you games. Sometimes it helps, yes. But we know that a good team, with good coaching, a certain ethos and belief etc. will stand a decent chance of winning some games at this level. We are fortunate that we have some great young players and the model (to sign up and coming youth) is a good one. It's just not guaranteed that those guys are going to even come into the team let alone sell for mega bucks. Our model is all about looking ahead and making sure the club is in a good place in the future. Which, by the players we've already brought through into the first team, is looking like it is. Sell those players for a lot, reinvest.

We have to hope that the U23 type players we've brought in will develop well. There are probably a few I'd pick out now as making the grade.

Edited by BobLoz3

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Byram went from £27m player to a 750k player overnight it seems - 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49319480

Premier League new boys Norwich City got the steal of the summer.

They bought Sam Byram from West Ham for just £747,000. He was valued at £27.7m by the selling club but is significantly lower for Norwich at £7m. They have still secured a player with Premier League experience for just over 10% of his monetary value though.

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, spencer 1970 said:

Byram went from £27m player to a 750k player overnight it seems - 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49319480

Premier League new boys Norwich City got the steal of the summer.

They bought Sam Byram from West Ham for just £747,000. He was valued at £27.7m by the selling club but is significantly lower for Norwich at £7m. They have still secured a player with Premier League experience for just over 10% of his monetary value though.

 

 

 

That article is a complete nonsense. Nobody has ever valued Byram at £27m.

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1 hour ago, Midlands Yellow said:

What’s the difference between a £3M player and a free transfer ? 

What's the difference between a buffalo and a bison? 

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3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

What is the difference between a £3 million player and a £30 million + player?

depends where you place the 0, I suppose

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3 hours ago, Felixfan said:

It is a bit like  buying wine. You can buy a young vintage and hope it matures into a Premier cru or you can buy the finished product.

A young wine only matures into a Premier Cru if it is already a Premier Cru. For example, a Deuxieme Cru might age and tast better than. Premier Cru of the same vintage but it will still be a Deuxieme Cru.

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One of the greatest teams in the history of the Premier League was Man United 1992-2003ish.

The backbone of this team were  "Fergie's Fledglings", which were mostly players developed through the youth system. This generation included David Beckham, Nicky Butt, Ryan Giggs, Gary Neville, Paul Scholes, and Phil Neville 

They found them, developed them, matured them and helped them to become great.

Of course they didn't have to worry about $$ like Norwich does, but it goes to show that if you can hold onto them and develop them correctly, you can do great things.

I think DF is a great manager, and we have some real gems in the squad and u23s. If we can stay up this year, we might be able to hold on to them, and then next season we might be in for a cracking season. At that point many of our players will be worth more than 30 million.

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It's also a game of chance.......a £30 million player can suffer a career stalling or ending of a career injury, just the same as a £3 million player.....

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Let's just enjoy them for what they are and who they are, not there asset value. I wouldn't mind betting:

- this in an unprecedented crop of players at such a young age never to be repeated 

- we will be disappointed with their eventual sell on prices

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1 minute ago, Capt. Pants said:

Let's just enjoy them for what they are and who they are, not there asset value.

I totally agree. My main point was that although they are young and inexperienced at this level, they are as good as having £30m+ players and that we should think of our team and it's ability to compete in the same bracket as other teams who have similar big value players.  By hook or by crook over the last two years we have become (imo) a team to be reckoned with, with the quality to beat anyone.

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Pukki is a good example. To sell him in the summer we would probably have set the price at £30m +. At that price the top 10 clubs would have a huge risk on their hands and for an unproven premier league scorer would probably not want to pay more than £20m. Should however Pukki score say 10 EPL goals by January and for a club not expected to score a lot of goals ( outside Norfolk ) we would probably revalue him £40 - £50m and the top clubs would probably consider it worth paying the extra £20m as they are now purchasing a player with little risk. I actually expect that to happen with a few of our players, but the good news is we have players to fit straight in now scouted in the same way ie Drmic would replace Pukki, last year no Aaron’s big problems, this year not sure we would notice much difference if Byram was playing.

Every player has a price to the club and a families future to secure.

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2 hours ago, Crafty Canary said:

A young wine only matures into a Premier Cru if it is already a Premier Cru. For example, a Deuxieme Cru might age and tast better than. Premier Cru of the same vintage but it will still be a Deuxieme Cru.

Shows how much I know about wine but you get the point.

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It is an interesting thought and is similar to something I was listening to yesterday by a couple of American football fans. The last 25 mins of so go into Norwich's strategy.

 

The issue is of course that the club's recruitment needs to be close to 100% - buying in young 'talent' is more of an art than a science and for every Aarons and Lewis, there are plenty who will never make the grade. Get too many duds at once and then Norwich risk being in a very dangerous position. 

There is also the issue of keeping hold of young talent - the best example is Ajax - they have a fantastic academy and constantly develop top level players, the problem is other clubs know this and take their young players before they even get a chance to play for Ajax. The club recently really pushed to resist other clubs and brought through young players sooner, which helped them have a great season just gone - but have now seen all their top talent leave and now look half the team they were. 

If Norwich's academy gets the reputation of being 'best in class' then clubs like Chelsea, Man U and Arsenal will just hoover up the best players with offers of lucrative contracts. 

Like most things in life, the answer is somewhere in the middle. Investing heavily in the academy while also bringing in a few developed players is the way forward for Norwich. This is probably more inline with clubs like Dortmund who spend almost more than anyone in the world on youth development and bringing in young talent, but will still spend £30 on established players like Mat Hummels.

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9 hours ago, lake district canary said:

I totally agree. My main point was that although they are young and inexperienced at this level, they are as good as having £30m+ players and that we should think of our team and it's ability to compete in the same bracket as other teams who have similar big value players.  By hook or by crook over the last two years we have become (imo) a team to be reckoned with, with the quality to beat anyone.

Ok, you’ve worn me down with your relentless optimism. All our players are worth at least £5m, some £30m plus, so our squad is worth at least £300 million.

 

But we lost 4-1 to Liverpool. Given what we’re worth, we’re badly underperforming! 

 

Farke out! Webber out! Delia out! BOOOOO!!!!!

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Or alternatively, what's the difference between a £40m striker and one that cost nowt

Answer, one's a load of sh*te and the other is Pukki

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