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birchfest

Would RVW score in the current squad?

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9 minutes ago, king canary said:

I do think if he'd not have fallen out so badly with Farke that Nelson would have done well in this system, provided he could be coached out of his desire to shoot from 30 yards too much.

I also think Hooper and even Chris Martin could thrive in this style. Just don't see that with RVW though.

Nelson was not capable of altering his playing style and his attitude to football.  Hooper was never fit enough to play Farkeball, not a hard enough worker - Chris Martin though, maybe, although I've always thought he was a bit overated.

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Dear lord, is van Wolfswinkel still being defended? It can only be the soppy British love of dumb animals, transferred to football. In the three top-class leagues he tried he started 39 games and came on as a sub in 30. And scored seven goals. Five of them in Ligue 1, which is generally regarded as the weakest of those five top-class leagues.

He had no pace, no physical presence, no physical/mental determination (in the way that Fleck, say, or David Speedie had) and - worst of all - lousy ball control. I can't think of a striker less likely to fit into Farke's plan.

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5 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Nelson was not capable of altering his playing style and his attitude to football.  Hooper was never fit enough to play Farkeball, not a hard enough worker - Chris Martin though, maybe, although I've always thought he was a bit overated.

The striker role is simply about working hard- it is about the vision and timing to make runs, the clever movement off the ball and the ability to find space between defenders. Hooper and Nelson both had more of that than RVW ever did, who was static, often on his heels and far too easily marked out of a game.

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He lacks the pace, strength, technique, vision or guile that you need to have an edge at the top level. This is why he's only ever been successful in lower quality leagues and whenever he's played at a higher level he's done poorly.

While I'm sure he'd have scored more goals in this team than he did in Hughton's, he wouldn't make our bench now.

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7 hours ago, kirku said:

Well, that's not even remotely true.

He was bad, especially given the expectations, but we're talking about a Dutch international who had a decent career before us and went on to play for some reasonable teams after. Tactically, we couldn't have set up worse for his style of play. 

Omar Koroma, he is not. 

Isnt it??..I've been watching us for 40 yrs

....I dont care what he did before or after us, at this club he was the worst i've seen, yes we've had other poor strikers, but even they have had one redeeming attribute...Chris Brown was ok in the air , Sheron could (occasionally) thread a through ball, even Koroma had a bit of pace. RVW had nothing of anything and if you factor in the money we paid it makes it hands down the worst.

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1 hour ago, Icecream Snow said:

This article was written after his first match. I didn't realise he only managed seven passes in the whole game.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1744071-why-ricky-van-wolfswinkel-will-be-a-premier-league-flop-with-norwich

Brilliant, that! Thanks very much!

This bit made me chuckle, given the reaction of some to comments that pundits make (myself included);

Much has been made of his opening-day goal in the draw with Everton, but aside from that and the rather positive highlights on Match of the Day, where van Wolfswinkel was eulogised over, his overall game left little to the imagination.

So, because RVW cost a fair bit of money and scored a 'header' that wasn't really intended they waxed lyrical about him. But, in reality, they had done little to no research on the game at all otherwise they would have surmised that he was actually complete bobbins.

"A striker's job is to score goals"

Yes, this may be the case, but in the modern game and in a team like ours they need to provide a lot more than just goals.

I'm so glad we found Teemu.

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Just seen the video that Bailey tweeted.

Poor Ricky has a brain aneurism and will have to quit football until treatment is complete.  

Sounds very lucky to have discovered it and hopefully he’s back playing football soon. 

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7 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Just seen the video that Bailey tweeted.

Poor Ricky has a brain aneurism and will have to quit football until treatment is complete.  

Sounds very lucky to have discovered it and hopefully he’s back playing football soon. 

Bloody hell that's horrible. Good luck to him.

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Whatever anyone thinks of his time here, I bumped into him just after that fateful first season and he seemed a really good bloke, desperate to do well and repay the faith shown in him. Rightly or wrongly, he was never given that opportunity. 

That’s absolutely terrible news but he’s lucky he got that bang on the head and the doctors found it early. He definitely has my best wishes and hopefully makes a full recovery to continue his career.

 

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Posted (edited)

🙏 Best of luck to Ricky Van Wink,  puts things into perspective. 

Edited by Van wink
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32 minutes ago, Clint said:

Whatever anyone thinks of his time here, I bumped into him just after that fateful first season and he seemed a really good bloke, desperate to do well and repay the faith shown in him. Rightly or wrongly, he was never given that opportunity. 

That’s absolutely terrible news but he’s lucky he got that bang on the head and the doctors found it early. He definitely has my best wishes and hopefully makes a full recovery to continue his career.

 

I met him in the Rushcutters not too long after we'd signed him. He gave my daughter a little toy dinosaur. Therefore that makes him better than Messi. Hope he makes a full and swift recovery.

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2 hours ago, king canary said:

Bloody hell that's horrible. Good luck to him.

Horrible but fantastic that theyve found it early before it was potentially too late. Fingers crossed hes back playing soon.

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7 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

I  wonder what PurpleCanary is thinking after this news ?

Cheap point scoring Swindon, badly done. 

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15 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Isnt it??..I've been watching us for 40 yrs

....I dont care what he did before or after us, at this club he was the worst i've seen, yes we've had other poor strikers, but even they have had one redeeming attribute...Chris Brown was ok in the air , Sheron could (occasionally) thread a through ball, even Koroma had a bit of pace. RVW had nothing of anything and if you factor in the money we paid it makes it hands down the worst.

This is just hyperbole. 

After us, Chris Brown managed a magnificant 37 in 230 odd games in the Championship and L1. Goran Maric went to the 4th Tier of Spanish football and Kazakhstan. Dave Striker played on for another 10 years, never scoring more than 6 goals a year (including a goaless stint in the Dutch second division). Koroma currently turns out for Dulwich Hamlet and went scoreless over 20 games for Forest Green in the Conference.

Yes, RvW was a massive let down when you consider the fee. Yes, Hughton's tactics were unsuited to him. But no, he quite clearly wasn't the "worst striker in 40 years". 

Hope he gets well soon. Terrible news.

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Yes, speedy recovery RVW! As I just said on another thread, something like this puts things into perspective. Regardless of what some thought of his ability as a footballer, when you hear news like this you can't help but hope he gets better. This is separate from football. It's personal, real life stuff.

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10 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

I  wonder what PurpleCanary is thinking after this news ?

That it's terrible news and he hopes he makes a full and speedy recovery?

What is wrong with you, Swindon?

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2 hours ago, kirku said:

This is just hyperbole. 

After us, Chris Brown managed a magnificant 37 in 230 odd games in the Championship and L1. Goran Maric went to the 4th Tier of Spanish football and Kazakhstan. Dave Striker played on for another 10 years, never scoring more than 6 goals a year (including a goaless stint in the Dutch second division). Koroma currently turns out for Dulwich Hamlet and went scoreless over 20 games for Forest Green in the Conference.

Yes, RvW was a massive let down when you consider the fee. Yes, Hughton's tactics were unsuited to him. But no, he quite clearly wasn't the "worst striker in 40 years". 

Hope he gets well soon. Terrible news.

....you're making reference to what players did before and after they were at NCFC .....I'm purely talking about what they did (or didnt do) when they were here....and yes, still stand by that

.....awful injury though and get well soon

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

....you're making reference to what players did before and after they were at NCFC .....I'm purely talking about what they did (or didnt do) when they were here....and yes, still stand by that

.....awful injury though and get well soon

But that is the whole point. Before RvW came to us his qualities had been well noted, he had been linked with some very big clubs, and had played for the then fifth best international team in the world. His qualities were never utilised at all, and to say he had no plusses to his game is ridiculous. His movement was excellent, as was that of Leroy Fer, but both players suffered by being played in completely the wrong way, and the longer they played for Hughton the worse their games became. In fact for the way Hughton wanted to 'play' the game, neither of them should ever have been bought by the club, they were never suited to his 'style'. 

Check out what Celtic supporters thought of Teemu Pukki. 

Edited by Yellow Wal
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He is not the worst striker in 40 years. He is being judged based on his price tag, which he had no influence on.

If we base him on pure footballing ability, he is nowhere near the worst. Bearing in mind he only ever played for us in the top flight as well, and only in a very poorly managed side. We’ve had strikers who’ve been absolutely dreadful in much lower leagues in much better set-ups.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

....you're making reference to what players did before and after they were at NCFC .....I'm purely talking about what they did (or didnt do) when they were here....and yes, still stand by that

.....awful injury though and get well soon

We spent about £15m on two poachers and then set up to play ultra deep defensive football... Says more about the calibre of the non-playing staff at the time than the strikers in my opinion. 

It was probably the wrong league for him, but he also just so happened to be at quite possibly the worst club in that league for his style of play. 

All of our strikers looked utterly demoralised that year, Elmander often looked like he wanted to jump off the top of a multistorey car park. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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On 15/08/2019 at 13:52, Half Ar5ed Hipster said:

Where's Indy_Bones?!

You rang?

I think most posters on here know my views regarding RvW, and I really don't want to get into yet another pointless debate about the whole thing, as some people will only ever look at his poor scoring record after coming to us, or indeed the infamous 'ghost pass' and claim he's the worst striker ever known at the club which is clearly nonsense.

In short, he had ZERO supply, ZERO support, was asked to play a totally unfamiliar role, and was badly affected by both the injury and a confidence crisis caused by the Hughton approach and teammates who simply weren't on his wavelength. Just watch his movement from the first part of the season before the injury and you'll see he was making runs and looking for balls to get onto and the rest of the team simply weren't providing them.

Most of our play was focused through Snoddy on the wing, who'd spend 3 minutes trying to beat the same man 15 times and then finally provide a ball that was either 3 feet above RvW, 4 feet behind him, or he'd simply shoot himself or pass to a different teammate. What can your striker do with absolutely no supply unless he's someone like Ibrahimovic or similar who has that all-round game to compensate for the poor supply, and can drop back a bit more etc?

RvW HAS to be played in a specific way to get goals, and there's absolutely no denying that he's a very limited striker in this respect, but you don't sign a player like Crouch and tell him to rely on speed and technique, you don't sign Zola and then sling in constant high balls for him to challenge the 6ft+ monster CB's like Van Dijk, and you don't sign RvW and ask him to play like Andy Carroll and then wonder why he's not doing anything.

The most frustrating part is that Hughton had scouted RvW well before coming to Norwich, almost everyone in football knew what type of player he was and how he'd need to be used to have a chance in the Premier League, and yet instead he played him as a lone target man in a highly defensive and restricted tactic, and somehow we still have fans blaming the player rather than the idiot who totally mismanaged the guy...

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24 minutes ago, Indy_Bones said:

You rang?

I think most posters on here know my views regarding RvW, and I really don't want to get into yet another pointless debate about the whole thing, as some people will only ever look at his poor scoring record after coming to us, or indeed the infamous 'ghost pass' and claim he's the worst striker ever known at the club which is clearly nonsense.

In short, he had ZERO supply, ZERO support, was asked to play a totally unfamiliar role, and was badly affected by both the injury and a confidence crisis caused by the Hughton approach and teammates who simply weren't on his wavelength. Just watch his movement from the first part of the season before the injury and you'll see he was making runs and looking for balls to get onto and the rest of the team simply weren't providing them.

Most of our play was focused through Snoddy on the wing, who'd spend 3 minutes trying to beat the same man 15 times and then finally provide a ball that was either 3 feet above RvW, 4 feet behind him, or he'd simply shoot himself or pass to a different teammate. What can your striker do with absolutely no supply unless he's someone like Ibrahimovic or similar who has that all-round game to compensate for the poor supply, and can drop back a bit more etc?

RvW HAS to be played in a specific way to get goals, and there's absolutely no denying that he's a very limited striker in this respect, but you don't sign a player like Crouch and tell him to rely on speed and technique, you don't sign Zola and then sling in constant high balls for him to challenge the 6ft+ monster CB's like Van Dijk, and you don't sign RvW and ask him to play like Andy Carroll and then wonder why he's not doing anything.

The most frustrating part is that Hughton had scouted RvW well before coming to Norwich, almost everyone in football knew what type of player he was and how he'd need to be used to have a chance in the Premier League, and yet instead he played him as a lone target man in a highly defensive and restricted tactic, and somehow we still have fans blaming the player rather than the idiot who totally mismanaged the guy...

 

This was always my main frustration with the England team. When we played Crouch we'd routinely thread through-balls for him to run on to. Yet when we played Owen we'd regularly pump it up to the 'big man'. No intelligence in our play, mismanagement of the assets that we did have. It was like watching Ricky Hatton fight Floyd Mayweather

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