Standard Home and Away memberships still on sale

[Mello Yello 2,289]

I don't think NCFC will ever be a big brand global/international hitter......But being on the telly box around the world is good for us......

 

All those years ago, anyone actually buy a Proton car?......Jumbuck or otherwise?.......

[nutty nigel 7,527]

Kingo, what's wrong with letting people choose whether to buy or not?

 

[Vazzza 62]

To play devils advocate, I really don't understand how on one hand we can celebrate the fact we are a self-sustaining club doing things differently to any other club, but then on the other hand moan about the club trying to maximise it's opportuity to earn money.

The amount of times I've seen mentioned that its "Only £750k" compared to the £100m TV money and therefore its not worth it, I'm pretty sure to NCFC every penny counts. Ok we have £100m coming in, but as we know a good proportion of that money is gone to player contracts, wages, running costs etc etc before we get a chance to start spending. If all goes wrong and we get relegated this year (so only 1 or 2 years of parachute payments, can't remember which) an extra £750k is a lot of money all of a sudden. Hell, this season it bought us a right back...

I completely, 100%, understand peoples gripe with the over subscription and inability to get tickets, but at the same time, you really can't blame NCFC for trying to maximise its earning potential while the opportunity is there. When the sun shines, make hay...

Edited August 15, 2019 by Vazzza

[king canary 7,599]

10 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Kingo, what's wrong with letting people choose whether to buy or not?

 

As I said, it isn't something I'm hugely fussed about.

[king canary 7,599]

6 minutes ago, Vazzza said:

To play devils advocate, I really don't understand how on one hand we can celebrate the fact we are a self-sustaining club doing things differently to any other club, but then on the other hand moan about the club trying to maximise it's opportuity to earn money.

The amount of times I've seen mentioned that its "Only £750k" compared to the £100m TV money and therefore its not worth it, I'm pretty sure to NCFC every penny counts. Ok we have £100m coming in, but as we know a good proportion of that money is gone to player contracts, wages, running costs etc etc before we get a chance to start spending. If all goes wrong and we get relegated this year (so only 1 or 2 years of parachute payments, can't remember which) an extra £750k is a lot of money all of a sudden. Hell, this season it bought us a right back...

I completely, 100%, understand peoples gripe with the over subscription and inability to get tickets, but at the same time, you really can't blame NCFC for trying to maximise its earning potential while the opportunity is there. When the sun shines, make hay...

As I said earlier there is a tightrope to walk- just because the club is self funding it doesn't mean fans have to role over and accept being squeezed for every penny going.

It is also a tough policy to square with quotes like this from our owners...

“I fear that the game is losing its soul. I really do feel for supporters. They’re treated so badly. They book their hotel rooms and get cheap prices for their travel tickets in advance. Bang! Oh, that game’s not on that day any more. The average age of a supporter goes up and up. Families have to share a season ticket: one child can go one week, and another the next because they can’t afford it. I’d love to see supporters worshipped and respected because otherwise it’s going to end up on television.”

[Jim Smith 2,317]

8 minutes ago, Vazzza said:

To play devils advocate, I really don't understand how on one hand we can celebrate the fact we are a self-sustaining club doing things differently to any other club, but then on the other hand moan about the club trying to maximise it's opportuity to earn money.

The amount of times I've seen mentioned that its "Only £750k" compared to the £100m TV money and therefore its not worth it, I'm pretty sure to NCFC every penny counts. Ok we have £100m coming in, but as we know a good proportion of that money is gone to player contracts, wages, running costs etc etc before we get a chance to start spending. If all goes wrong and we get relegated this year (so only 1 or 2 years of parachute payments, can't remember which) an extra £750k is a lot of money all of a sudden. Hell, this season it bought us a right back...

I completely, 100%, understand peoples gripe with the over subscription and inability to get tickets, but at the same time, you really can't blame NCFC for trying to maximise its earning potential while the opportunity is there. When the sun shines, make hay...

I don't celebrate us being a self sustaining club. I regard it as a convenient "mantra" that has been invented to cover the fact that the owners get the fans (and tv) to pay for everything.

[Well b back 3,199]

4 hours ago, lake district canary said:

It looked like an attempt to be fair and stop people thinking why casual home supporters should have to pay more than away fans. It's backfired spectacularly, but you can see an element of them trying to be fair in that case.....it's just the membership malarky that doesn't cut the mustard.

 

Sorry but that’s not correct. EPL clubs were forced to sell away tickets at £30 ( it was not Norwich as Mr Ben is indicating ). To soften the blow it was agreed that the maximum number of away fans would be limited.

If you were a casual fan would you expect to pay considerably more for your ticket ? Or do you think it’s right that thousands of us are subsidising those seats with little or no chance of ever getting a seat home or away. Very few bought the membership for reasons other than it being the only possible way of getting tickets ( for me away ). We were taken advantage of ( as are most EPL fans ).

[lake district canary 4,531]

9 minutes ago, Well b back said:

4 hours ago, lake district canary said:

It looked like an attempt to be fair and stop people thinking why casual home supporters should have to pay more than away fans. It's backfired spectacularly, but you can see an element of them trying to be fair in that case.....it's just the membership malarky that doesn't cut the mustard.

 

Sorry but that’s not correct. EPL clubs were forced to sell away tickets at £30 ( it was not Norwich as Mr Ben is indicating ). To soften the blow it was agreed that the maximum number of away fans would be limited.

If you were a casual fan would you expect to pay considerably more for your ticket ? Or do you think it’s right that thousands of us are subsidising those seats with little or no chance of ever getting a seat home or away. Very few bought the membership for reasons other than it being the only possible way of getting tickets ( for me away ). We were taken advantage of ( as are most EPL fans ).

Mr Kensell was correct in what he indicates - he has said away prices were brought into line with the £30 rule, but home casual seats did not have to be brought down to £30 - they were brought down to match the £30 as an attempt to appease home casuals who would not have to see away fans getting in for less than them. 

Edited August 15, 2019 by lake district canary

[Well b back 3,199]

14 minutes ago, Vazzza said:

To play devils advocate, I really don't understand how on one hand we can celebrate the fact we are a self-sustaining club doing things differently to any other club, but then on the other hand moan about the club trying to maximise it's opportuity to earn money.

The amount of times I've seen mentioned that its "Only £750k" compared to the £100m TV money and therefore its not worth it, I'm pretty sure to NCFC every penny counts. Ok we have £100m coming in, but as we know a good proportion of that money is gone to player contracts, wages, running costs etc etc before we get a chance to start spending. If all goes wrong and we get relegated this year (so only 1 or 2 years of parachute payments, can't remember which) an extra £750k is a lot of money all of a sudden. Hell, this season it bought us a right back...

I completely, 100%, understand peoples gripe with the over subscription and inability to get tickets, but at the same time, you really can't blame NCFC for trying to maximise its earning potential while the opportunity is there. When the sun shines, make hay...

The difference here is the club have totally shafted a proportion of us. Do you think it’s right after doing 8 away games last year the only chance of getting a ticket this year is arrive at CR from 4 am and pay £50 for the privilege ?. I have stood by the club for 55 years but the way they have wanted my support for the last 4 seasons then become not bothered overnight has horrified me.

[Well b back 3,199]

3 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Mr Kensell was correct in what he indicates - he has said away prices were brought into line with the £30 rule, but home casual seats did not have to be brought down to £30 - they were brought down to match the £30 as an attempt to appease home casuals who would not have to see away fans getting in for less than them. 

No he didn’t. He claimed this was NCFC he never mentioned EPL supporter rules. You haven’t answered my question why do you feel we should pay £50 membership to subsidise casual seats who would never had queried having to pay £50 as there would have been thousands wanting them. If you get a seat once in a season it has cost you far more than £30. Let me put some quotes from the website

With ticket prices being reduced, there naturally comes an increased demand for tickets. If we kept membership prices the same as
last year, a lot of fans would be left disappointed as our supply wouldn’t be able to match the demand.

We’ve taken the decision to add a Premier membership option to allow fans the opportunity to gain priority access to our casual tickets, while Standard members also get access to tickets before general sale.

That doesn’t seem to mention we will be selling thousands of memberships but only actually have 2250 max on sale ?

Our away support is incredible. Last season, Rotherham sold out within hours of going on general sale and we sold over 5,000 tickets to Wigan, despite a 5am departure on a Sunday morning from Carrow Road.

From next season, we will replace the away points system with a tiered membership for travelling supporters. This is a fair and simple way for all fans to secure their away tickets for the upcoming season.

Can I refer to the words all fans to secure their away tickets - do you not now find this misleading ?

Can I upgrade from Standard to Premier during the season?

Yes, membership upgrades are available for £15, where you will receive all of the Premier benefits excluding the welcome pack.

There could be hundreds more yet, I can’t see how the club could not give an upgrade.

Like you LDC my support for the actions of this club have never waivered until this often bringing me ridicule. The club have taken advantage of thousands of us. Do you really believe there would have been many objections to the points system staying the same and casuals being charged £50 ?

It seems to me those that have been there for the last 4 seasons are being treated worse than those that now wish to watch NCFC as we are now in the EPL. I hope for the clubs sake all those stay around should we be relegated.

 

 

[Vazzza 62]

49 minutes ago, king canary said:

As I said earlier there is a tightrope to walk- just because the club is self funding it doesn't mean fans have to role over and accept being squeezed for every penny going.

It is also a tough policy to square with quotes like this from our owners...

“I fear that the game is losing its soul. I really do feel for supporters. They’re treated so badly. They book their hotel rooms and get cheap prices for their travel tickets in advance. Bang! Oh, that game’s not on that day any more. The average age of a supporter goes up and up. Families have to share a season ticket: one child can go one week, and another the next because they can’t afford it. I’d love to see supporters worshipped and respected because otherwise it’s going to end up on television.”

You're right, it is a tightrope and on this occasion the club has fallen off it, but they have to try. And like i said in my previous post, while the opportunity is there they have to maximise the amount of revenue they can bring into the club from every angle possible to ensure we are here for future generations to enjoy. But not only that, to hopefully be able to push on and establish ourselves int eh prem.

Lets play a hypothetic game that Aarons gets injured and without the £750k we have earnt from this scheme we wouldn't have had teh funds to buy SB as cover. Would you by happy to have given £50 towards the purchase of SB knowing he would be vital in us staying up? I know I would.

 

48 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I don't celebrate us being a self sustaining club. I regard it as a convenient "mantra" that has been invented to cover the fact that the owners get the fans (and tv) to pay for everything.

I really do celebrate it, would much rather it be this way than for us to overstretch and be just another one of the long list of clubs that are in financial peril and in some cases be on the brink of non-existence.

 

35 minutes ago, Well b back said:

The difference here is the club have totally shafted a proportion of us. Do you think it’s right after doing 8 away games last year the only chance of getting a ticket this year is arrive at CR from 4 am and pay £50 for the privilege ?. I have stood by the club for 55 years but the way they have wanted my support for the last 4 seasons then become not bothered overnight has horrified me.

I'm afraid that’s what comes with demand suddenly far outweighing supply. Don't get me wrong, I agree the way it's been handled by the club is wrong and I've seen many suggestions for better ways of doing it mentioned on this board over the past weeks.

Where I don't agree though is the club has "shafted a proportion of us" - it’s shafted every one equally who DECIDED to pay for the subscription. That’s one thing that I haven't seen in any of the other suggestions, equality... (without re-opening the elite/loyal/diehard fans debate all over again).

[lake district canary 4,531]

6 minutes ago, Well b back said:

You haven’t answered my question why do you feel we should pay £50 membership to subsidise casual seats who would never had queried having to pay £50 as there would have been thousands wanting them. If you get a seat once in a season it has cost you far more than £30. Let me put some quotes from the website

It was always clear why the away fans' prices were reduced to £30, whatever spin the club chose to put on it.   As for paying at CR £45/£50 for a casual ticket while opposition supporters are only paying £30.....that would be just wrong, so the club has to be commended in that instance for bringing the price down for home supporters.....and we would still have been paying a membership fee on top, just like last season. 

If you are talking about season ticket holders having to pay £50 for the privilege of getting (or not getting!) away tickets, then I do have a little sympathy with that, but then why should season ticket holders have an advantage over non-season ticket holders for away tickets?   Many away fans come from all over the place, not just Norfolk - indeed, some like me are rarely able to get to CR and rely on seeing us away from home.  Season ticket holders are obviously committed and loyal to Norwich, but the season ticket is only for home matches and away matches are a different thing all together, which is what the new scheme recognises.

I hope I've answered your question, but from a personal point of view, I don't think I would be making the effort to get to CR at all if tickets were at around £50 for casuals while people on the opposite side of the ground from a different club are only paying £30.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

9 minutes ago, Vazzza said:

You're right, it is a tightrope and on this occasion the club has fallen off it, but they have to try. And like i said in my previous post, while the opportunity is there they have to maximise the amount of revenue they can bring into the club from every angle possible to ensure we are here for future generations to enjoy. But not only that, to hopefully be able to push on and establish ourselves int eh prem.

Lets play a hypothetic game that Aarons gets injured and without the £750k we have earnt from this scheme we wouldn't have had teh funds to buy SB as cover. Would you by happy to have given £50 towards the purchase of SB knowing he would be vital in us staying up? I know I would.

 

I really do celebrate it, would much rather it be this way than for us to overstretch and be just another one of the long list of clubs that are in financial peril and in some cases be on the brink of non-existence.

 

I'm afraid that’s what comes with demand suddenly far outweighing supply. Don't get me wrong, I agree the way it's been handled by the club is wrong and I've seen many suggestions for better ways of doing it mentioned on this board over the past weeks.

 

Where I don't agree though is the club has "shafted a proportion of us" - it’s shafted every one equally who DECIDED to pay for the subscription. That’s one thing that I haven't seen in any of the other suggestions, equality... (without re-opening the elite/loyal/diehard fans debate all over again).

 

It hasn't shafted everyone equally, those who would have had between 1300 and 1450 away points have been particularly shafted. The Club has exploited those who it knows want to watch us away and fans who have both season tickets and watch us away quite regularly are definitely amongst the most loyal fans the club has. 

In terms of the self funding thing as ever nobody wants us to extend ourselves to the brink of non-existence and given our owners stance we have no choice but to be self funding (although wealthier owners would allow us to extend ourselves within reason as they would provide a safety net) but the owners/club should at least be honest about it rather than dressing this up as some kind of exercise to bring in a fairer system for away ticket allocations.

The reality is that is we are to take this approach then the people who pay for Delia and MWJ's stance on ownership of the club (and the training ground and everything else that continues to increase the value of their asset for them) will be the fans because we are the ones who are going to have to put our hands in our pockets regularly. Many may be prepared to do that of course given the fear of anything else but before any other new charges or season ticket price increases are introduced lets at least be honest about why the club is doing it. 

 

[king canary 7,599]

22 minutes ago, Vazzza said:

while the opportunity is there they have to maximise the amount of revenue they can bring into the club from every angle possible to ensure we are here for future generations to enjoy.

I don't agree they have to and this 'maximised revenue stream' has not raised a sum that will have any bearing on whether the club is here for future generations. 

24 minutes ago, Vazzza said:

Lets play a hypothetic game that Aarons gets injured and without the £750k we have earnt from this scheme we wouldn't have had teh funds to buy SB as cover. Would you by happy to have given £50 towards the purchase of SB knowing he would be vital in us staying up? I know I would.

Based on the money coming in from TV vs the money going out I'd be very surprised if we don't make a reasonably significant profit this season. I simply don't believe that we couldn't have signed Byram without the money from the membership and I don't think you do either.

[Matt Juler 148]

I have no real issue with the £50.  The issue I have is that once I've paid the £50 (which I've not done), my history would be of zero value.

[nutty nigel 7,527]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

As I said, it isn't something I'm hugely fussed about.

Then why have you continually argued against my opinion that they should be free to choose?

[Mello Yello 2,289]

Maybe we are becoming an 'in transition,' socialist self funding club?.....

 

 

[king canary 7,599]

1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

Then why have you continually argued against my opinion that they should be free to choose?

I haven't. I've argued against your insistence that people who think they shouldn't be sold anymore being inward, selfish, little Norwich people who want to 'build a wall.'

Oh and your weird argument that there is queue of fans in Senegal waiting to buy membership's.

[nutty nigel 7,527]

5 minutes ago, king canary said:

I haven't. I've argued against your insistence that people who think they shouldn't be sold anymore being inward, selfish, little Norwich people who want to 'build a wall.'

Oh and your weird argument that there is queue of fans in Senegal waiting to buy membership's.

Any chance of quotes?

[Big Vince 318]

All this ticket and membership controversy should be laid fairly and squarely at the feet of the Suffolk Socialists. The expansion of the stadium has been floated for years now, but they have done nothing about it. They don't want to do anything about it because they don't want to get into debt because this would put their ownership of the Dolls' House at risk. And they will not sell to someone who will do something about it. So we are where we are. It is all about the owners , the owners, the owners. Supporters are numpties for good reason.

[Highland Canary 76]

Crawley now on sale to Standard Away Members - so the Premier group has not taken advantage of this away opportunity. Will be interesting how many we take to Burnley but I don’t recall being in a sold out away section in previous years. It seems unlikely that there will quite the pressure on tickets as was the case for Liverpool and WHU.

 

 

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

On 14/08/2019 at 18:35, Peanuts said:

Leaving aside the shameless cash grab that is the away membership scheme, the regular home membership is pretty poor value compared to other clubs too.

Man Utd for example is £35 and you get a pack with pin badge, earbuds, snood, pen etc as well as 10% discount in the club shop. Liverpool is £37 or £27 if you don't want the tat and you get 10% discount in the shop. Man City is £35 and you get £5 off tickets, 10% off in the shop and 20% off stadium tours as well as pin badge, scarf and laptop sleeve.

For £35 we get a scarf and 5% off in the shop.

Man united are using all of our yellow and green merch

[Well b back 3,199]

17 hours ago, Highland Canary said:

Crawley now on sale to Standard Away Members - so the Premier group has not taken advantage of this away opportunity. Will be interesting how many we take to Burnley but I don’t recall being in a sold out away section in previous years. It seems unlikely that there will quite the pressure on tickets as was the case for Liverpool and WHU.

 

 

Lol

We paid our £50 and Crawley is the first game we ( and many others ) have been able to get a ticket away. Amazingly enough the £50 is still questionable as we would have got these tickets without the £50.

Where we sit for home games we had a quick survey. Prior to these tickets we had 2 people that did 9 games each last year, 4 people that did 8 games each last year and 7 people that did 4 to 6 games last year. Each of these had multiple phones and computers on previous sale dates. Not 1 ticket between them was managed to be purchased for Liverpool and WHU. Most of that group are going to Crawley. Should we get to the 1/4 even the semi final bet we will be back to square 1 and unable to get tickets. It does seem strange that us that followed the club in 1/2 sold out areas last year cannot get tickets for the more wanted games.

[GMF 736]

Just for context, here’s a question to ponder on away games. 🤔 

Last season we had approximately 21,000 season ticket holders (who obviously didn’t need an additional membership to buy away tickets) and almost 8,000 members (who could buy home or away tickets for a single fee).

Yet no one ever thought a cap was necessary and, despite most games actually going straight to general sale last season, over 16,000 different fans went to at least one away game.

Ironically, the revised scheme is highly likely to result in fewer fans actually going to away matches, given just about 7,000 memberships have been sold.

Logically, therefore, had a cap actually been set, as many have advocated, at, say 3,000, this would have almost certainly made the situation even worse, as it would be highly likely that the same fans would snap up the majority of tickets for each match.

For this reason, I don’t closing the membership scheme completely is necessary, especially as sales had already reduced to a trickle.

[TIL 1010 4,737]

So you approve then of the fastest finger on the button at 9am and large queues outside the box office if you advocate no cap on memberships ?

As for the games mostly being on general sale last season that is like comparing apples with pears with this season as apart from the Scum game who exactly were the teams fans were clambering to to get tickets for whereas we now have Liverpool,WHU, Man Utd ,Man City, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea.

[ThorpeCanary 71]

On 15/08/2019 at 09:31, lake district canary said:

It looked like an attempt to be fair and stop people thinking why casual home supporters should have to pay more than away fans. It's backfired spectacularly, but you can see an element of them trying to be fair in that case.....it's just the membership malarky that doesn't cut the mustard.

 

Having a max cost of £30 to match away tickets has backfired how exactly? Seems the correct decision to me. 

On 15/08/2019 at 09:50, king canary said:

That's still more than a 10% discount to be fair.

As well as guaranteeing you the same seat all season as well as any future season should you decide to keep it. I know many people who try to get to games as and when they can (family, cost, work) and the idea that they are not technically paying much more than a season ticket holder per game sits fine with me.

[GMF 736]

5 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

So you approve then of the fastest finger on the button at 9am and large queues outside the box office if you advocate no cap on memberships ?

As for the games mostly being on general sale last season that is like comparing apples with pears with this season as apart from the Scum game who exactly were the teams fans were clambering to to get tickets for whereas we now have Liverpool,WHU, Man Utd ,Man City, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea.

No where have I suggested that I approve of the revised scheme - I don’t.

I’ve confirmed the facts relating to last season under the previous scheme and predicting that less fans will almost certainly away games this season as a consequence of the new arrangement. 

Of course away games this season are more attractive than last and away games will undoubtedly have a greater following. But, personally, I wouldn’t limit the number able to attend away games for the reasons outlined.

[TIL 1010 4,737]

The only reason to continue to let people join the scheme would be for financial gain by the club.

[nutty nigel 7,527]

14 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

The only reason to continue to let people join the scheme would be for financial gain by the club.

Why?

I may still want to buy one to give me a better chance of a ticket for games the elite and wannabe elite turn their noses up to.

 

[TIL 1010 4,737]

By increasing the number of people in the membership scheme it decreases the chance of you getting a ticket when the lottery takes place for each game.