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Jobsworth Canary

West Ham tickets

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40 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

We embraced all fans at St Andrews not just NCISA members Nutty. This current issue is a major problem and i am surprised a supporters group has not grasped the nettle and called a fans meeting without waiting for the future consultations organised by the club. After all it appears they are handpicking the participants for that already.

Hi JT, those invited are those that contacted the club at the outset and complained about the current set-up.

i was invited but cannot go, but I have been in contact with the club this afternoon regarding the fiasco that this is after queueing at Carrow Road this morning. I really really do not think this membership arrangement was thought out at all by Kensall and his comrades, but having made the decision to stick with it, they have to, but they obviously hadn’t thought about the problems identified through selling just two away matches. It’s going to get worse for sure, and anyone who paid £35 for standard membership simply will not get a ticket!

yes I agree it appears this was a simple money grabbing excise by NCFC to make up the shortfall of income brought about by the premier league rule of capped ticket prices, and that was the complaint I first made to the club. But the issues are now much more than that after the fiasco of today, which will be replicated many times this season for sure. 

Im pretty sure the office of fair trading will be taking a look at city, as might other agencies, you can only say they have brought it upon themselves.

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Just now, Jobsworth Canary said:

Office of fair trading don’t be daft 😂😂😂

Come in then jobsworth, don’t just criticise, evidence your statement. You think it’s “fair’ do you in being asked to pay a fee to allow you to get something you evidently cannot?

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3 minutes ago, City 2nd said:

Come in then jobsworth, don’t just criticise, evidence your statement. You think it’s “fair’ do you in being asked to pay a fee to allow you to get something you evidently cannot?

Report it and watch them laugh you out the door

we all knew we were buying a ticket for the right to enter the lottery 

dont let me stop you 😁😁👍👍👌👌

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4 minutes ago, City 2nd said:

Come in then jobsworth, don’t just criticise, evidence your statement. You think it’s “fair’ do you in being asked to pay a fee to allow you to get something you evidently cannot?

I'd be very surprised if the club's legal department hadn't been consulted on this before the rollout. I highly doubt they would have left even the slightest chance of the club being successfully sued under the terms and conditions of the scheme.

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16 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I'd be very surprised if the club's legal department hadn't been consulted on this before the rollout. I highly doubt they would have left even the slightest chance of the club being successfully sued under the terms and conditions of the scheme.

Surely you would only consult the legal department if you were afraid of any consequences ?

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I doubt they would anticipate any fan seeking to take action against the club, I cant quite get the hang of that either.

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32 minutes ago, Jobsworth Canary said:

Report it and watch them laugh you out the door

we all knew we were buying a ticket for the right to enter the lottery 

dont let me stop you 😁😁👍👍👌👌

Why would I want to report it? I’ve got my ticket thanks! But having spoken to many this morning, and some who didn’t get tickets included in that, who feel they have been duped out of their hard earned cash, well I suggest someone will make that report and take a stance, and probably rightly so. So let’s hope Mr Kensall and his side kicks did do their homework and legal checks first. 

Those who paid £35 too for what is now their non existent windows ain’t too pleased either from what I’m hearing!

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4 minutes ago, City 2nd said:

Why would I want to report it? I’ve got my ticket thanks! But having spoken to many this morning, and some who didn’t get tickets included in that, who feel they have been duped out of their hard earned cash, well I suggest someone will make that report and take a stance, and probably rightly so. So let’s hope Mr Kensall and his side kicks did do their homework and legal checks first. 

Those who paid £35 too for what is now their non existent windows ain’t too pleased either from what I’m hearing!

Cheapskates 😉

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What's going on with the F & F ?

I've got six on mine and I'm sure I bought four tickets together last season. Someone on here said you could buy a maximum of ten tickets this season so how come the system won't let you add another F & F if you've got three on there already ?

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3 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

Surely you would only consult the legal department if you were afraid of any consequences ?

I'm just guessing, but I'm pretty sure they knew this was going to be unpopular and did their due diligence.

But on the other hand, maybe they just totally misread it. Either way, you'd hope it wouldn't come to that even if there were a legal case to answer - a genuine sense of remorse and/or a goodwill gesture from the club would probably do the trick.

It'll be very interesting to see how much humble pie the club is willing to eat during the next phase of consultation.

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Answer  by the club " Hi Rob thank you for getting in touch with us and I am sorry to read of your complaint. In order to issue a refund we require the membership pack to be returned to us in an un-used condition to the Ticket Office with a note requesting a refund. Unfortunately we cannot issue a refund without the pack and I do apologise for any inconvenience caused.

This sounds like an automatic reply...

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11 hours ago, Van wink said:

Cheapskates 😉

Oh I would upgrade if I thought it would give me a greater chance ... but it doesn't!!!! It does not guarantee me a fair chance! 

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I’m not sure that the £350,000 from this new membership scheme is very material in the context of the Premier League +£100,000,000 windfall, so I doubt that real motives were financial.

Demand outstrips supply for tickets, the stadium capacity is limited even at League 1 level, there is a danger of bed-blocking new generations of fans and interest levels from new and potential customers (beyond the existing database) is at its very highest and must be commercially explored.

Tickets at Premier Clubs are available at stupendously high prices, with many more fans willing to pay very high sums for single games (vid VIP coach offer on this thread).

I also very much doubt that most - if not all - of the issues raised on this thread were not clearly thought of in advance by the Club.

The unilateral, last-minute announcement - with an element of sliding it in on a good news day - implies a clear understanding that it was a poison chalice to change or not change, that many would be unhappy. Perfection was clearly not on offer here, so a bullet in shoulder was taken, likely to establish a deeper principle from the club of broadening the Membership base perhaps with a view to Members have a greater role in the running of the club going forwards.

Self-funding models might well rely on Members funds and investment going forwards - Barcelona would be the pinnacle of such a scheme, where the Club is owned by the Members - so broadening the scheme at a point where demand was highest, availability inevitably very low, new fan engagement high and broader (worldwide) exposure huge. New money, people and interest must be welcomed for future development (even if in effect it can’t all be satisfied today).

Doing it for £350,000 in this context looks highly unlikely. So the real reasons were something else. 

Parma

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5 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

I’m not sure that the £350,000 from this new membership scheme is very material in the context of the Premier League +£100,000,000 windfall, so I doubt that real motives were financial.

Demand outstrips supply for tickets, the stadium capacity is limited even at League 1 level, there is a danger of bed-blocking new generations of fans and interest levels from new and potential customers (beyond the existing database) is at its very highest and must be commercially explored.

Tickets at Premier Clubs are available at stupendously high prices, with many more fans willing to pay very high sums for single games (vid VIP coach offer on this thread).

I also very much doubt that most - if not all - of the issues raised on this thread were not clearly thought of in advance by the Club.

The unilateral, last-minute announcement - with an element of sliding it in on a good news day - implies a clear understanding that it was a poison chalice to change or not change, that many would be unhappy. Perfection was clearly not on offer here, so a bullet in shoulder was taken, likely to establish a deeper principle from the club of broadening the Membership base perhaps with a view to Members have a greater role in the running of the club going forwards.

Self-funding models might well rely on Members funds and investment going forwards - Barcelona would be the pinnacle of such a scheme, where the Club is owned by the Members - so broadening the scheme at a point where demand was highest, availability inevitably very low, new fan engagement high and broader (worldwide) exposure huge. New money, people and interest must be welcomed for future development (even if in effect it can’t all be satisfied today).

Doing it for £350,000 in this context looks highly unlikely. So the real reasons were something else. 

Parma

This is a humongous reach, backed up by nothing but a desire to not see the club as having done something wrong. Nothing about this membership scheme points to it being a start of members being more involved in the running and funding of the club.

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11 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Doing it for £350,000 in this context looks highly unlikely. So the real reasons were something else

Ben Kensell admitted that it was to make up for the reduction in casual ticket prices to £30

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Parma, whilst I thoroughly enjoy your on field football posts, I am of the opinion you are wide of the mark here. To the best of my knowledge this was quite simply a poorly thought through, senior management and board decision, that BK is being disproportionately hung out to dry for.

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9 minutes ago, king canary said:

This is a humongous reach, backed up by nothing but a desire to not see the club as having done something wrong. Nothing about this membership scheme points to it being a start of members being more involved in the running and funding of the club.

Indeed. The club admits its about commercialising membership and maximising commercial revenues. We have a “commercial” side of the club and their job/mission is to maximise commercial revenues and they will say that is what they are doing (at the cost of fan relations with their nosy loyal fans). 

 

Truth is they are doing this because we have owners who financially cannot really afford to own/run a premier league club in the modern era and who refuse to consider any alternative! At this level it’s clear fans will be asked to pay more just to enable them to sustain that ownership model because they certainly are not putting any money in any more as far as I can see.

In truth if the club were to move to a model where it was owned by fans then that would be a different matter entirely. 

 

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I would add though that in my view the £350k or so raised. Yo this scheme makes s*d all difference when considered as part of the overall budget which makes it particularly ill thought out. It seems to just be driven by the mantra that commercial revenues must be maximised as we are “self funding”

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1 hour ago, Jobsworth Canary said:

I suspect this Ben fella is a sadomasochist who loves getting beaten up digitally and that is why he introduced the scheme

If I felt the way I felt yesterday and I was actually refunded by the club , I would gladly lose the 35£ by stuffing it up his nose when I would meet him... Not claiming it's the right thing to do or to feel , but in the mood I was yesterday , I would do it!

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2 hours ago, ROBFLECK said:

Answer  by the club " Hi Rob thank you for getting in touch with us and I am sorry to read of your complaint. In order to issue a refund we require the membership pack to be returned to us in an un-used condition to the Ticket Office with a note requesting a refund. Unfortunately we cannot issue a refund without the pack and I do apologise for any inconvenience caused.

This sounds like an automatic reply...

Sounds like a massive cop out to me. What is an "unused condition" - does that mean unopened? The notion they can't give a refund because the £5 of tat they've included in the pack has been touched does not sit well.

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I have calmed down a bit now after yesterday, my blood pressure is back to its normal levels, but I have a serious question.

on reflection it seems there would not be a scheme that pleased everybody, however if the scheme had not changed ( we already knew the rules for getting tickets ) would anybody have complained as such about not getting a ticket or would the system have just been accepted ? I suspect the latter with those not getting tickets simply in the majority accepting the situation and would probably go to FA Cup / league cup / less glamorous EPL games to build their points up.

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1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

Sounds like a massive cop out to me. What is an "unused condition" - does that mean unopened? The notion they can't give a refund because the £5 of tat they've included in the pack has been touched does not sit well.

That's how i felt Jim . I love NCFC and I will always support my club. But I ain't buying anything of them anymore for the time being. I don't have a chance to get a ticket , so I'll watch the televised games and listen to the radio, but they won't get a penny of me for the time being!  If there's another sort of supporter's meeting to challenge the new scheme I will join it.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

I’m not sure that the £350,000 from this new membership scheme is very material in the context of the Premier League +£100,000,000 windfall, so I doubt that real motives were financial.

Demand outstrips supply for tickets, the stadium capacity is limited even at League 1 level, there is a danger of bed-blocking new generations of fans and interest levels from new and potential customers (beyond the existing database) is at its very highest and must be commercially explored.

Tickets at Premier Clubs are available at stupendously high prices, with many more fans willing to pay very high sums for single games (vid VIP coach offer on this thread).

I also very much doubt that most - if not all - of the issues raised on this thread were not clearly thought of in advance by the Club.

The unilateral, last-minute announcement - with an element of sliding it in on a good news day - implies a clear understanding that it was a poison chalice to change or not change, that many would be unhappy. Perfection was clearly not on offer here, so a bullet in shoulder was taken, likely to establish a deeper principle from the club of broadening the Membership base perhaps with a view to Members have a greater role in the running of the club going forwards.

Self-funding models might well rely on Members funds and investment going forwards - Barcelona would be the pinnacle of such a scheme, where the Club is owned by the Members - so broadening the scheme at a point where demand was highest, availability inevitably very low, new fan engagement high and broader (worldwide) exposure huge. New money, people and interest must be welcomed for future development (even if in effect it can’t all be satisfied today).

Doing it for £350,000 in this context looks highly unlikely. So the real reasons were something else. 

Parma

This is an interesting view and could be the case.  The easy opinion to have (and one I went along with) is that the club just messed up, but if Parma is right, then this could be a sign of things to come in the further development of the self-funding model.  Assuming this is right, then it will be interesting to see what happens as things move forwards.

However, having said that, the two membership thing does stil look a bit of a c*ck up to me, regardless of long term plans......

 

Edited by lake district canary

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1 minute ago, ROBFLECK said:

That's how i felt Jim . I love NCFC and I will always support my club. But I ain't buying anything of them anymore for the time being. I don't have a chance to get a ticket , so I'll watch the televised games and listen to the radio, but they won't get a penny of me for the time being!  If there's another sort of supporter's meeting to challenge the new scheme I will join it.

In a normal world Trading Standards would now have a pile of complaints on their desk and would be carrying out an investigation, there would also probably be letters to that BBC programme. However we love our club and that’s the reason this is not happening. Just as a warning though Mr Ben someone will snap eventually and report the club or indeed trading standards will pick up on social media. It is illegal in this country to charge somebody to buy something they can’t have due to over subscription.

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6 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

This is an interesting view and could be the case.  The easy opinion to have (and one I went along with) is that the club just messed up, but if Parma is right, then this could be a sign of things to come in the further development of the self-funding model.  Assuming this is right, then it will be interesting to see what happens as things move forwards.

 

It isn't the 'easy opinion.' It is the opinion based on evidence. Parma's suggestion is, at this point, based on nothing.

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