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yellowrider120

Vital areas not improved?

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In the heady days of summer 2019 after one of the most exhilarating seasons in our history, it is a crime of the highest order to even venture the most mildest form of 'worry, concern or objective criticism'. Any such public utterances are likely to be met with swift keyboard retribution and the perpetrator boringly labelled ' Binner' or other such stupid description.

Well Yellow Rider has never followed the herd and he ain't going to do so now so I'm well prepared for the verbal onslaught that will follow this post I can assure you. Let me first of all eat humble pie. Like many posters I was distinctly underwhelmed with our first season of 'The Project' whilst agreeing that both Webber and Farke had inherited poison chalices. Of course the subsequent turn around was totally unexpected and sensational. I yield to no one in my admiration of what those two guys and the players did. 

Did I want us to throw cash around like confetti (even if we could 'afford' to)?. The likes of Villa and Watford spring to mind. No. Did I want us to lavish huge wages on over hyped Premiership 'stars' (Naismith example)? No. However, I honestly fear that in the vital areas of central defence and central striker we are potentially woefully short (in both quality and quantity). 

Lets look at the 'strikers' first. Of course 'the whole team must defend and the whole team must attack', a noble and worthy philosophy but (that said), there are key components you must get right. Onel, Roberts, Buendia +others will weigh in with goals of course but the burden will fall almost exclusively on just two players it seems. Last season Pukki had an amazing injury free run (minor hamstring notwithstanding). By the law of averages that is unlikely to be the vase this season. His deputy / co striker Drmic may well step up and score goals but what if he or either has a run of niggling injuries (or heaven forbid) go down with an injury that keeps him out for two or three months. What then? Also, what happens if Pukki's goals simply 'dry up' and / or Drmic 'can't do it in the Premier'.  No Rhodes, no other striker of any note is on the books. The fall back (amazingly) is a German Third Division striker who has played virtually no football of any significance in his 18 months in Blighty and an unproven (but highly rated) 18 year old. I'm delighted at the 'promotion' of Idah but if Farke seriously considers him ready for the first team then surely he should have been meaningfully involved in the last two friendlies? Of course the replies will be ..............'we can't afford multi million £ strikers'. Maybe but I can't believe we could not have landed someone to beef up the striking options. Hopefully we will land a free agent to address that glaring gap.  Farke seems worryingly relaxed at the situation. I'm not. Respondents should answer this simple question:- 'What on earth is Srbeny still doing at the football club'??

Now lets look at the four central defenders. Whilst the 'quantity' is ok (although even that looks ominous for tomorrow with two of them already injured!!), what about the 'quality'?? For me the jury is still out on Godfrey at centre half. He still has much to learn having played only half a season in that position. Outstanding when he 'powers forward' (the goal v Reading was, for me, the goal of the season) but he lacks awareness and anticipation sometimes in his basic duties. The goals scored by Gayle and Martin being cases in point. When he does get that mega millions move, I still think he will settle down in his original defensive midfield role at the buying club. 

Hanley and Zimmerman are Championship level 'stoppers' who can (and are) brutally exposed for pace (or lack thereof). Sure they are heroic in 'putting their bodies on the line' but that should be a minimum requirement for a professional footballer surely? Anfield will be a serious test for Hanley. I hope he proves me wrong and does us proud. The thought of his last first team start does fill me with dread though. A sending off tomorrow could destabilize our season before its' even started! The fact that a moderate Championship club wanted to take him on loan and we didn't seem to reject the approach surely tells you all you need to know on that score??   

Finally, what of the boy Klose? All 'Norfolk n Good' but his recent injury record must surely be a major concern? In fact early pre season we heard he was .......'managing a knee issue'. Now I don't know about you but that sent a cold shiver down my spine. Should we really have lavished a three year contract with that background? Now it's a hip injury. Tim has class for sure but was never the quickest and with niggling injuries he is another who any objective fan must be concerned about (to put it mildly). Farke and Webber again seem relaxed at the situation. I hope they're proved right. Excuse me for expressing reservations.     

 

      

         

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All I'm bothered about is staying up, and with this management and squad I am sure we will. 

 

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4 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

Excuse me for expressing reservations.    

No need to excuse yourself - all opinions are of value.

Another striker/attacking player and a central defender would have defo been on my hit list but I think we have filled the main weaknesses in our squad. It's going to be a very tight season imo - but I think we'll just be the right side of 18th.

OTBC

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No consideration given on the improvement in Zimmermann & Godfrey, they have both matured and grown in stature, they have improved In themselves and as such are considered an improvement on last season in my book! 

Not to mention all our other key players from last year too! We’ve had this debate, whilst I agree we could have done with another CB I believe we have improved the squad with our additions without disrupting the core squad, ethics and enthusiasm!

Why can’t some fans see this as improving our squad!

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20 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

tl/dr

all of the positions we needed filled were filled and presumably if there's a need we have spending power in January.

so you think that Pukki and Drmic are perfectly adequate do you??

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Godfrey is not a defensive midfielder. Paul Hurst played him there, Alex Neil played him right back and Farke is certain he's a CB. I know who of those 3's judgement i trust the most. Like another poster said, he could do a job at DM in a much more limited system, like a Warnock team but he doesn't have the attributes to play in that role at the top level. Kante he aint. 

 

Zimmermann is also way more than just a Championship level stopper. He's big and puts his body on the line but he's also so much more than that, you only need to watch him regularly to see that. Most promoted teams would struggle to find a better backup CB than Hanley as well.

 

Pukki has been relatively injury free his whole career. Yes Pukki and Drmic could possibly be injured at the same time, but so could the two main strikers of any team and yes we don't have the money to waste on a 3rd starting option when we play one up top. Srbeny is adequate 3rd choice cover for this year, in future seasons probably not but with our fanaces being what they are we'd have to spend a significant amount to get a noticeable upgrade. Strikers cost money, the only other option is a cheap unproven player but thats basically what Srbeny is.

 

For once we have strengthened in areas we actually need, instead of shelling out loads on minor upgrades in positions we're already strong while neglecting weak areas like we used to. We came up very strong in CB and forward areas. We lacked an Onel alternative, a DM, cover for Max Aarrons and a second choice striker. No other position needed filling imo. We've played this summer spectacularly 

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10 minutes ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

No need to excuse yourself - all opinions are of value.

Another striker/attacking player and a central defender would have defo been on my hit list but I think we have filled the main weaknesses in our squad. It's going to be a very tight season imo - but I think we'll just be the right side of 18th.

OTBC

Good points Gordon. For what its' worth I think we will survive and probably do more than 'just survive' as well. I do believe, though, that the team spirit and overall ability will see us through and that may 'gloss over' what I consider are the frailties I outlined.   

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Long time no post from me. Lurked on and off for a bit. Where to start.

Lets compare - that tends to help.

Villa defensive signings: Hause - £3million, Targett - £11.5million, Mings - £20million, Konsa - £12million, Engels - £9million.

I wouldn't say any of those are any more proven or better than what we have. Targett is the only one with much Premier League experience. And yet how much has that cost them? Even if you just look at Mings and Konsa, that is £30+million on two CB's.

As such I think you underate our defence. Godfrey and Zimmerman are both better than Mings IMHO. Zimmerman has more pace than you give him credit for. He isn't as fast as Godfrey, but then if anything is to go by, Not one player in the Atalanta side had the beating of him for pace... He'll be a huge asset this season. I also suspect that whilst Farke says we won't park the bus, I'm sure he'll also be telling Godfrey and the others not to push on as much.

In fact, I would argue as the season went on we were less impulsive going forward and far more measured. Lewis got forward but wasn't constantly bombing on and his defensive play got better, same with Aarons who's pace at times got him out of slip up's and he certainly got better after the nice lay off he gave to the opposition after trying a cut inside into his own penalty area.

No. I think there are a number of teams much higher than those around us who are watching at least three of our back four to see how they develop next season. Aarons, Lewis and Godfrey. In all honesty if Zimmerman steps up like he has done to the previous challenges he'll also turn eyes. Klose is hardly useless either.

I think in reality, when talking about improving the spine of the team, striker, midfielder and CB, even keepers these days, you are talking £10million in transfer fees. Consider Amadou case in point. If we stay up because of some great performances from him, we'll be signing him for £8.5-9million. Add to that the loan fee.

There are bargains to be found like Drmic. But otherwise you are talking serious money or loans and it is important to find that balance.

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10 minutes ago, Indy said:

No consideration given on the improvement in Zimmermann & Godfrey, they have both matured and grown in stature, they have improved In themselves and as such are considered an improvement on last season in my book! 

Not to mention all our other key players from last year too! We’ve had this debate, whilst I agree we could have done with another CB I believe we have improved the squad with our additions without disrupting the core squad, ethics and enthusiasm!

Why can’t some fans see this as improving our squad!

How can you imply they have improved on last season when this season has not yet started!!!

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Pre season YellowS.

Godfrey has looked immense, a yard faster! Stronger too. Same with Lewis, Cantwell to mention but a few.

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1 minute ago, chicken said:

Pre season YellowS.

Godfrey has looked immense, a yard faster! Stronger too. Same with Lewis, Cantwell to mention but a few.

I suspect those lads were a little tired towards the end of last season. 

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Sure, but I'm not the only one who has reflected on such things. Radio Norfolk commentators, Archant journo's and a number of other fans too.

We'll see this season I guess, but I've been around footy long enough to see how quick a player is... And Godfrey is fast.

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15 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

so you think that Pukki and Drmic are perfectly adequate do you??

Idah too. If Farke and Webber didn't see him fit then we would have signed another.

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IMO we’ve got 5 new players, all adding depth to the squad and including guys who may well be starters.  Yes we might have liked a little more but that’s the way of things.  Sheff U (ten signings) and Villa (God knows how many) appear to have brought in a lot more but IMO much of that spend does not necessarily equal better quality than we have and few of the players have PL experience.

IMO we were a little bit ‘too’ attacking last season and it cost us a few goals.  I’m pretty sure we’ll tweak a few things to try to lessen that stat, it didn’t necessarily need new players. 

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I think most people would have been pleased to make the playoffs last season, given that we'd sold all our goals just to balance the books. 

A year on, and we've got people bitching about the players that have just given us a wonderful season, a trophy and a chance to build a legacy. 

I guess if you're going to find things to moan about, it's best to get in early, that way, when we do lose to some of the biggest Clubs on the planet, you can wrap yourself in the warm glow of 'I told you so'

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We go with what we have and that is the right decision.

There are plenty of examples of worse squads than ours surviving in the PL and there are many examples of high priced players who have failed miserably.

What our squad lacks in PL experience is balanced with youth, detemination, togetherness and ambition.

Nobody yet knows what they are capable.

 

 

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Absolutely. For me, the biggest issue this pre-season has been not getting a powerful DM in earlier so we can integrate him into the team. 

Everywhere else I’m pretty pleased with the “perfectly adequate” players we already have and the “perfectly adequate” players we brought in. Clubs like ours don’t need superstars we need stars - and several of them. 

interesting the new DM can play centerback, I’m going to hazard a guess we may try “5” at the back when the early feet finding is over. 

                   Fahrmann   

  Zimmermann   Amadao  Godfrey 

Aarons.                                        Lewis 

                      Leitner 

Buendia.    Cantwell.      Roberts 

                      Pukki.  

 

Subs: Krull, Byram, Klose, Vrancic, McLean, Hernandez, Drmic 

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9 hours ago, yellowrider120 said:

Good points Gordon. For what its' worth I think we will survive and probably do more than 'just survive' as well. I do believe, though, that the team spirit and overall ability will see us through and that may 'gloss over' what I consider are the frailties I outlined.   

We're not perfect then, never realised.

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We’d all like to be in the position to go out and buy more or less anyone we want, but that’s not likely to happen for a few years if ever, I’m pretty happy with the transfer window just gone, feels like we’ve strengthened just about enough to me.

 

By the way your posting style seems familiar, referring to yourself in the third person and calling people ‘the boy’ 🤔

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9 hours ago, Indy said:

No consideration given on the improvement in Zimmermann & Godfrey, they have both matured and grown in stature, they have improved In themselves and as such are considered an improvement on last season in my book! 

Not to mention all our other key players from last year too! We’ve had this debate, whilst I agree we could have done with another CB I believe we have improved the squad with our additions without disrupting the core squad, ethics and enthusiasm!

Why can’t some fans see this as improving our squad!

Hey Indyo, we're great, but some will never be happy until we're the New Man City, spending 70 million on one player to top up our Premier League winning squad. For some its not about football but about Glory. They should Eff off and support PSG or Celtic who can pretty much book their Parade Bus right now before a ball is kicked.

Talking with an Ajax fan the other day , i asked him if it frustrated him the way they sell their top players as they mature, His response was that if they kept them , the only Trophy they could call a challenge is the CL. they are not just  proud of trophies theyre proud of all aspects of their Club. As should we be.

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9 hours ago, yellowrider120 said:

How can you imply they have improved on last season when this season has not yet started!!!

Because this time last season, we didn’t have the Godfrey, Lewis, Buendia, Aarons, Cantwell, Pukki, Zimmermann, Onel, Cantwell we have the start of this season, they have improved this squad by learning and developing into premiership quality player as proven b6 wining the championship, so deserve to be classed as far better!

We don’t need to buy like Villa or Sheffield as we have a strong young side, that’s how they have improved on last season.

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Cash spent is not the only measure of improvements in a squad, how would you measure progress delivered by a squad filled with young talent reflecting the progress they will make as they develop as players.?

Thats what we've invested in, the potential for growth and improvement of our young squad.

For me the most exciting thing we could have done😀

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As far as I see it the squad from last season DESERVE the chance to play at this level. It was their achievement - their blood, sweat and tears. They've earned the right.

A few players have been strategically sprinkled in to support them. 

If they aren't good enough to survive ... so be it.

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10 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Cash spent is not the only measure of improvements in a squad, how would you measure progress delivered by a squad filled with young talent reflecting the progress they will make as they develop as players.?

Thats what we've invested in, the potential for growth and improvement of our young squad.

For me the most exciting thing we could have done😀

Exactly this, and it’s good to see the investment in our youth has been rewarded by them as they all agreed new longer term contracts, meaning these guys buy into the new philosophy of Norwich too.

I’m under no illusion that some will no doubt go to bigger clubs in the future, but great to see none of them turned into billy big b*******s and demanded a move. Great set of players.

We’ve been shrewd too, by buying more youngsters and adding to our under 23 with quality which should bare fruit in the future VW. Strengthening our team where required. Like I’ve said just would have liked a new CB but I’m pretty sure there will be someone in the under 23 squad if needed this season will step up and do a job.

Edited by Indy
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5 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Cash spent is not the only measure of improvements in a squad, how would you measure progress delivered by a squad filled with young talent reflecting the progress they will make as they develop as players.?

Thats what we've invested in, the potential for growth and improvement of our young squad.

For me the most exciting thing we could have done😀

Absolutely nailed it 100%  Winko.  The total reboot of the Club this last couple of years has made me fall in love with football again.

I cannot abide the " if they're not Ronaldo, they're not good enough ''attitude. I used to listen to teenage boys discussing players and Clubs on the way to matches. There were only two ways for them to describe players.... Brilliant or Carp.  They were only kids, but some adults hold those views too....... A bit sad really.

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10 hours ago, yellowrider120 said:

so you think that Pukki and Drmic are perfectly adequate do you??

If we had bought them for £3M-£6M which they could've been when under contract then I wonder if their adequacy would be questioned?

You certainly can't assume Pukki won't be adequate ... he was the Championship player of the year last season!

Look at what Grant Holt did for us when we went up with Lambert! 

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I still think Idah will be the next youngster pushing the first team this season, along with Pukki & Drmic that’s not a bad front line! A player who scored 30 goals in the last season a Swiss international and a youngster who’s big unit with quick feet and knows where the net is.....not sure we’ve had such a good front line going into a top flight season in a long time.

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One point that I don’t think has been mentioned is that not only has the club invested in our young talent by sticking with them and giving them a well deserved chance in the Premier League, but they have all signed long term contracts and are clearly invested in the club.

There was lots of speculation about possible moves, but they all decided to stay and continue on this journey. Having committed players, who want to be there, know the set up and will give everything for the club is going to be really valuable. 

I’m not sure whether Villa will get the same from their new players? 

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