short-termist board of directors

[Banus Canary 0]

Can someone help me understand the short termist views of our board of directors? They seem intent on making a quick buck as opposed to taking a long term view on the clubs future. There is a lot of speculation around Deano leaving us and the club not being able to say no to £6 million it someone comes in for him.  I have been thinking about this, and at £6 million with our sell on clause our profit would only be £2.4 million, now if the club can’t turn this down, we have bigger problems than I thought. 

 

It seems as though we are almost marketing Dean Ashton for a sale as opposed to coming out and saying he will stay with Norwich.  He has a long contract with us and yes he may want to leave but lets face it, he’s not going to drop in value if he stays until May, its only another 5 months and he''s still young..  When AJ tried to leave Palace, Simon Jordan took a big picture view.  He could have taken 10m for AJ but knew without his top striker his shot at the £25m was never going to be a success, he’s in it for the future not the quick buck and I don’t understand why our board do not share views such as this.

 

With the purse at £25 million for being involved in the premiership, surely the mission of the directors should be to create a solid premiership level club for the future. Our recent sell off of the corner of the ground to Holiday Inn I believe was a mistake, I personally would rather have seen another 2-3,000 seats, even if it meant borrowing the money to do the work.  It may have taken 4-5 seasons to pay back the loan but then at least we have a 30k capacity stadium when we’ll be established in the premiership and a residual income week after week.

 

The hotel deal may have provided Delia and the board with a quick £1m but its not a long term play. We, as a club would have no problems filling the seats especially if we are in the top league, our catchment area is possibly the largest unrivalled area in the leagues due to our location versus other clubs.

 

It look a local businessman to pay for Huckerby’s wages when we were looking to go up.  When we were promoted it wasn’t a problem.  It was a gutsy move but the right one and should have been taken by the club.  I guess I just want to see the club making decisions which may not be as profitable for us now but will cement our future.  Delia has a successful business outside of football, trying to turn a profit from the club for the next year or two is a strategy that will see us stay in this league for foreseeable future. 

[A Load of Squit 5,113]

The whole first paragraph of your post is just speculation, if it was based on fact then using the phrase ''short termist'' may have some weight, but its not so it doesn''t. Leave the board alone, they have proved on countless previous occaisions that they have the best interest of the football club at heart.

[The Duke of Norfolk 0]

Yes, i know where you are coming from.

If Ashton goes for say 6-7 million, how much of that will Worthy see?

Crewe are due 20%, so will the board  give all the transfer funds to Worthy? I doubt it but i think they should.

If they only give Worthy £4 million to spend then it is not worth selling Ashton. Bear in mind that a sizeable chunk of that £4 million will have to go towards finding a replacement for Deano.

Alot of people say that if we sell Ashton we can use the money to strengthen the team all round. I am not so sure. If Worthy is only given £4 million then we probably won''t be able to strengthen the team that much. £6 million and we might be able to.

The board should give all the money from any Ashton sale to Nige, remember in the summer Doncaster coming out and saying that any money Nigel recoups from player sales will go straight back into his kitty? That should still apply now.

What do you think?

[Smeg 0]

the thing is if ashton wants to go he`ll go, remember what happened to francis last season, as soon as his agent got wind of a move his concentration on the pitch wained all the way though the 2nd half of the season, you cant afford to let him sulk on the byline during games, gone are the days of cloughy or fergerson telling a player that he WAS staying and to just play, now adays players have agents and lawyers watching every move, contracts are worthless now a days, there only true purpose is to give a indication to the amout of money clubs will have to pay, but if a player wants to go he will......unless ur someone like robbie fowler who leeds had to pretty much pay man city to get shot off

[Robbo007 0]

I agree with your points, however the biggest point yet is that none of the parties have made an official statement.

1. Ashton hasn''t said he wants to leave

2. Board hasn''t said he''s for sale.

3. Nigel hasn''t said he wants rid

4. No other team has made a bid / made there interest known

 

All will be revealed very soon.........

[Banus Canary 0]

This is the problem, I have to say I would expect the club, again if they were thinking long term to make it known Ashton isn''t for sale and he will remain until at least the summer regardless.  The board not suggesting he is to stay will only increase prospective buyer interest.  They will not admit he''s for sale as they''ll get more if the sale is deemed reluctant. Ashton hasnt said he wants to leave, however he has said he wants to play for a premiership club, Norwich''s come back should now be made public rather than leaving it open. Perhaps if Dean was more aware of his future now for the next 5 months he would get his head down and focus on being the best he can. I''d hate to see his form for Norwich when a bid comes in from a big club at which point we try and talk him into staying. Should have nipped this in the bud before now... 

I agree that players now have a voice and will move if they want to, however a 21 year old lad with a massive future ahead of him should take some guidance from his manager / employer not just his agent looking to make a few quid.  I am sure he is able to make his own decision, but I feel our manager should have more gravitas where his young stars are concerned, if Ashton believes Norwich will go up, then we might just be in with a chance, the confidence has to come from the top and filter down into the players, letting Ashton walk in my opinion is criminal and shows no confidence in our clubs abillity to deliver a cracking part 2 of this season. The club does have a contract with th player and it does count for something.  

With regard to the board having the clubs interests at heart... I believe they do but you cannot deny their short term outlook on some of their decisions.. we''ll see what happens with the Asthon bit, and hopefully I''ll be eating my words.  

[Ian 1,129]

I would argue that our board have a long-term view of the club''s development. We now have a stable financial infrastructure, with very managable debts, which we clearly did not have in recent years. We are not reliant on Premiership football to pay for our wages (I hope), nor are we a "selling" club any longer. We have an incredibly strong Championship squad, which the management team have assembled without spending a lot of money, as proven by our recent performances, and I would be more than happy to reach the playoffs this season (although I don''t think 2nd place is beyond reproach just yet).I do think there''s a little more to the Dean Ashton transfer speculation that meets the eye; I am sure the board would not let him go unneccessarily, but perhaps some sort of "gentleman''s agreement" was made with the player regarding his future, because of Dean''s change in tact regarding a move. I would love to see the board issue a hands'' off warning, but in reality, 10 million would go a hell of a way to strengthening our squad. Judging by his spat with Worthy at the Burnley game however, it looks like Dean is quite passionate about the club, so I would hope he would hang on for just a little longer. I would be gutted if Dean went for any less than 8 million following Crewe''s sell-on fee, but there''s no doubt in my mind that he should be playing in the Prem.Let''s just hope we can continue our rich vein of form and that Dean can be persuaded to stay for just another 6 months until we get to Cardiff (or possibly Wembley). At the end of the day, I don''t really think we can turn down 10 mil if the player wants to go. If he wants to stay, then I hope we would turn down any offers regardless of their price. Whilst it''s all well and good to say that the club don''t NEED to sell him - unfortunately, we live in times of player power.Perhaps we should scrap the Worthy Out campaign, and put our efforts into a Dean Stay campaign to show him just how much he means to the club?!

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Rubbish. Our Board have worked to a five year plan incorporationg short, medium and long term goals. The fabric of the Club in addition to the playing staff has been improved, they have been superb, the best board I can ever recall at this Club and they deserve our support.

[First Wizard 0]

Jeez Rudolph!, are you dining a lot with the Stowmarket two these days??. Your reply was Soooooooooo far up a dark place, that you must have connections with the board my friend.

I think you might change your mind come January when certain people leave.

Yes, they have done well, but don''t canonise them yet!.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

1st Wizard ranted

Jeez Rudolph!, are you dining a lot with the Stowmarket two these days??. Your reply was Soooooooooo far up a dark place, that you must have connections with the board my friend.

I think you might change your mind come January when certain people leave.

Yes, they have done well, but don''t canonise them yet!.

Wouldn''t YOU like to know Hexmeister!

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

Time of the month eh Rudolph??

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Time of the year Mr. Ranting.

By the way the carrot was delicious!

[YankeeCanary 0]

Welcome to the message board Banus. Are you based in Spain? Good quality post and I hope we see a lot more from you. Given your ability to think clearly, I doubt that you need much input to help you understand the situation. What you need to post on this board regularly is stamina to perservere with responses from 10 year olds and Wizards who, based upon recent posts, are targeting 10 year olds in their messages. I digress Banus, however, here is my perspective.

First of all, I believe it is necessary for any objective observer to attempt to wear the hat of a majority shareholder in a football club, in this case, Norwich City. If you were starting out three or four years ago investing more heavily in such an enterprise you would likely acknowledge the risk as being significant. Secondly, you would know that there is considerable temptation in spending healthy amounts of transfer money and wages to attract quality personnel in seeking success. It takes a great deal more patience to manage the investments on a pay-as-you-go basis resulting in more incremental improvement for the health of the club each season ( this means that sometimes a step backwards occurs in the short term ), as opposed to clutching for sudden success.  You would also be wise enough to know that you might experience, during your tenure, asset growth opportunity that was far more certain than the precarious temptation to achieve it by placing your bets on attaining and maintaining Premiership status. Therefore, if such an asset ( player ) comes through the ranks or, as is the case with Ashton, you can acquire someone that you are fairly certain you will be able to generate a significant ROI for, you would be a poor business person to turn away from such a guaranteed return without very careful thought on the overall progress point your club is on the chart at a moment in time. That''s the business side of the answer. Now let''s examine the emotional side.

Players of the quality of Dean Ashton ( and Andy Johnson ) are going to want to strive for the highest levels ASAP. They know the life of a footballer is relatively short and uncertain and, if they have top talent, their first loyalty must and always will be to themselves. If there has been much discussion in the past with Ashton ( and his agent ), both prior to his initial signing and during the contract extension, as to the circumstances that will enable him to move on, then the club position would have been discussed at those points in time. Any reluctance by the club to go along with his desire to move now, therefore, will cause us to have a demotivated, expensive asset on our hands. It''s also a message that gets through to any other such talent we have or wish to acquire.

 Finally, given the size and support level for our club, how does such an action ( selling Ashton ) compare with clubs of similar size and ambition. First of all, the deed is not done yet. Ashton may decide he wants to stay ( not likely ). Compare us with clubs such as Blackburn, Bolton, Charlton, Crystal Palace and Wigan. We measure up fairly well on a support level basis. I don’t think we are very different from those clubs in many respects. There may be a quirkier chairman here or a wealthier chairman there but probably very similar aspirations and hurdles to face. Therefore, management astuteness becomes all the more important in recruiting and managing players ( on a relatively tight budget ) that can perform as a team to try and hold their own in the Premiership. While Nigel has some qualities I do not believe that he stacks up well against Allardyce, Curbishley, Hughes and Jewell. Dowie finds himself in a similar position to Nigel, albeit with a tougher boss to please. The Andy Johnson situation may yet have some twists and turns. In summary, it may be prudent to sell Ashton if a strong enough bid is on the table because we are not even close to having our ducks lined up in terms of a squad that is capable of assuring promotion from this division, let alone mounting a serious challenge in the Premiership. For those whose response to this point is that, if we were promoted, we could then acquire more talent, what amount of money would you see our club putting on the table to do that?

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Sorry Yankee, lost interest half way through. Do try and be more concise. How about bullet points?

[0Amarillo<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>ddMMyyyy0Falseen-US<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>True 0]

[quote user="Banus Canary"]

With the purse at £25 million for being involved in the premiership, surely the mission of the directors should be to create a solid premiership level club for the future. Our recent sell off of the corner of the ground to Holiday Inn I believe was a mistake, I personally would rather have seen another 2-3,000 seats, even if it meant borrowing the money to do the work.  It may have taken 4-5 seasons to pay back the loan but then at least we have a 30k capacity stadium when we’ll be established in the premiership and a residual income week after week.

 

The hotel deal may have provided Delia and the board with a quick £1m but its not a long term play. We, as a club would have no problems filling the seats especially if we are in the top league, our catchment area is possibly the largest unrivalled area in the leagues due to our location versus other clubs.

[/quote]

 

Banus... Pay attention... this bit has been aired endlessly. The cost per seat of building seats where the hotel is going to go is MUCH higher then the cost of putting another tier on the City stand. If and when the club has the funds to build more seats, that''s where they will build them. They only built in the other corner because we needed a new diabled facility.

 

So the £1m the club has/will make from the hotel going in the other infill is by far the best thing to do.

 

You call for a long term view but then espouse short-termist policies: the flaw in your argument is "then at least we have a 30k capacity stadium when we''ll be established in the Prem". What if we don''t get promoted? Would you want to club to end up like our neighbours, having to renegotiate the loan for the additional seats that no one is sitting in, and getting further into debt all the time because of it? This is the evidence that the club is thinking long-term.

[YankeeCanary 0]

Here''s a bullet for you Rudolph. Don''t waste your time reading any part of my posts then you don''t need to waste time apologising, which gives you more time to focus on the kindergarten exchanges you are engaged in with Wizard. Get the bullet on this one?

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

Welcome to the message board Banus. Are you based in Spain? Good quality post and I hope we see a lot more from you. Given your ability to think clearly, I doubt that you need much input to help you understand the situation. What you need to post on this board regularly is stamina to perservere with responses from 10 year olds and Wizards who, based upon recent posts, are targeting 10 year olds in their messages. I digress Banus, however, here is my perspective.

First of all, I believe it is necessary for any objective observer to attempt to wear the hat of a majority shareholder in a football club, in this case, Norwich City. If you were starting out three or four years ago investing more heavily in such an enterprise you would likely acknowledge the risk as being significant. Secondly, you would know that there is considerable temptation in spending healthy amounts of transfer money and wages to attract quality personnel in seeking success. It takes a great deal more patience to manage the investments on a pay-as-you-go basis resulting in more incremental improvement for the health of the club each season ( this means that sometimes a step backwards occurs in the short term ), as opposed to clutching for sudden success.  You would also be wise enough to know that you might experience, during your tenure, asset growth opportunity that was far more certain than the precarious temptation to achieve it by placing your bets on attaining and maintaining Premiership status. Therefore, if such an asset ( player ) comes through the ranks or, as is the case with Ashton, you can acquire someone that you are fairly certain you will be able to generate a significant ROI for, you would be a poor business person to turn away from such a guaranteed return without very careful thought on the overall progress point your club is on the chart at a moment in time. That''s the business side of the answer. Now let''s examine the emotional side.

Players of the quality of Dean Ashton ( and Andy Johnson ) are going to want to strive for the highest levels ASAP. They know the life of a footballer is relatively short and uncertain and, if they have top talent, their first loyalty must and always will be to themselves. If there has been much discussion in the past with Ashton ( and his agent ), both prior to his initial signing and during the contract extension, as to the circumstances that will enable him to move on, then the club position would have been discussed at those points in time. Any reluctance by the club to go along with his desire to move now, therefore, will cause us to have a demotivated, expensive asset on our hands. It''s also a message that gets through to any other such talent we have or wish to acquire.

 Finally, given the size and support level for our club, how does such an action ( selling Ashton ) compare with clubs of similar size and ambition. First of all, the deed is not done yet. Ashton may decide he wants to stay ( not likely ). Compare us with clubs such as Blackburn, Bolton, Charlton, Crystal Palace and Wigan. We measure up fairly well on a support level basis. I don’t think we are very different from those clubs in many respects. There may be a quirkier chairman here or a wealthier chairman there but probably very similar aspirations and hurdles to face. Therefore, management astuteness becomes all the more important in recruiting and managing players ( on a relatively tight budget ) that can perform as a team to try and hold their own in the Premiership. While Nigel has some qualities I do not believe that he stacks up well against Allardyce, Curbishley, Hughes and Jewell. Dowie finds himself in a similar position to Nigel, albeit with a tougher boss to please. The Andy Johnson situation may yet have some twists and turns. In summary, it may be prudent to sell Ashton if a strong enough bid is on the table because we are not even close to having our ducks lined up in terms of a squad that is capable of assuring promotion from this division, let alone mounting a serious challenge in the Premiership. For those whose response to this point is that, if we were promoted, we could then acquire more talent, what amount of money would you see our club putting on the table to do that?

[/quote]

YC: To suggest, even in jest, that my posts are targeting 10 year olds is sick and depraved.

An apology would be in order yes?.[:@]

[YankeeCanary 0]

You are correct Wizard. I apologise. I should have said your posts are drawing responses from 10 year olds.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Robbo007"]

I agree with your points, however the biggest point yet is that none of the parties have made an official statement.

1. Ashton hasn''t said he wants to leave

2. Board hasn''t said he''s for sale.

3. Nigel hasn''t said he wants rid

4. No other team has made a bid / made there interest known

 

All will be revealed very soon.........

[/quote]

3 of the above 4 have actually happened.

Ashton said on "the championship" that he is only committed to us till January... worthy has said Ashton is for sale at the right price, Papers ''up t''north'' have apprently linked Deano with Man city.... Which is where everyone seems to think he is going....

but as u say..... we shall see....

jas :)

[First Wizard 0]

I can see more apologies looming YC, this time to the ''10 year olds'' lol!.

[shyster 0]

For the most part I quite enjoyed reading your post and it made a few good points, but like many posters here you really need to develope a sense of humour, YC.

I personally think the banter ''twixt Wizard & Rudolph is both extremely funny & highly entertaining.

After reading through Wizard''s ''Come On Leicester'' thread, which turned out hilarious for all the wrong reasons, it seems you''re not alone in the poor sense of humour stakes - or are those people simply thick?

Anyway - lighten up.

 

[Banus Canary 0]

[quote user="Amarillo"]

Banus... Pay attention... this bit has been aired endlessly. The cost per seat of building seats where the hotel is going to go is MUCH higher then the cost of putting another tier on the City stand. If and when the club has the funds to build more seats, that''s where they will build them. They only built in the other corner because we needed a new diabled facility.

So the £1m the club has/will make from the hotel going in the other infill is by far the best thing to do.

You call for a long term view but then espouse short-termist policies: the flaw in your argument is "then at least we have a 30k capacity stadium when we''ll be established in the Prem". What if we don''t get promoted? Would you want to club to end up like our neighbours, having to renegotiate the loan for the additional seats that no one is sitting in, and getting further into debt all the time because of it? This is the evidence that the club is thinking long-term.

[/quote]

This is exactly what I am talking about "What if we dont get promoted".  We are no longer a mediocre team, we are one of the finest teams in the championship, with great support, good players and minimal levels of debt. Now is the time to start thinking seriously about pursuing a firm spot in the premiership and to start thinking about where this club can make money outside of ticket sales properly.  

With regard to the hotel deal, £1m isn''t a lot of money, holiday inn understand carrow road is hardly the finest loation for a hotel in norwich, unless you need access to Big W!... They have fronted £1m for the location, thats a steal and is not a long term play for Norwich. 

If we absolutely cannot make money out of the seats over a 5 year period, which I believe is actually do-able then why not think about other strategies? Anyone can sign a deal with Holiday Inn for £1m, thats not a clever play.

Back to Yankees post, and putting myself in the position as chief shareholder.. I''d probably be more interested in looking at a more lucrative deal with MGM or London Clubs to provide a Casino / Poker environment within the ground, with the 68 gaming act changes coming through now, we are well within our right to put forward an application for a license in conjunction with an experienced operator.  Now a rev share deal on this basis would outstrip seat revenue and hotel revenue 10 times over,.. our closest casino is Yarmouth and quite frankly they''re all pathetic. Again, I''d rather take a couple of years getting this right, its one we''ll kick ourselves on I know it...

Yes Yankee.. Banus / Norwich - move between.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mello Yello 2,273]

10 year old what? Vildebeest, penguins, elephants, rhino''s, aardvarks, oak trees, bungalows, British Rail sandwiches, toupees, Ford Mondeo''s?.................. Can''t you people be more specific? REALLY I find it most irritating!

Mello age 4..........and 3 quarters.  ;~)