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What you need to survive...

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Interesting article about what is needed to survive in the premiership. 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11764098/premier-league-newly-promoted-teams-and-the-battle-to-avoid-relegation

if this is right then we are likely to go down because we haven’t spent “big but wise” and because we have not bolstered the defence - which matters more than the attack at this level. 

On the plus side look at how well Sunderland and Ipswich did without spending big. Key question though - did they have strong defence in championship the season before? 

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I think the article gets confused implying these correlations being the cause of staying up. It doesn’t matter at what point in the season you get your points, it just so happens this is often in certain months. 

We don’t need to follow this blueprint if we are atypical relegation avoiders. No panicking if our season looks very different to big sam’s - I expect we will go about things differently to him.

Definitely interesting though.

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Yeah it is an interesting article.

I recall our promoted team under Lambert securing most of our points by half way through. The second half of the season allows opposing clubs to research our strengths and we need some tweaking then to then get more points.

I also think that first season we picked up results quite regularly, be great if this season we can do that.

Take advantage of clubs who may be suffering, so Newcastle at home and beat the teams that come up and take points off them.

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It all got a bit too involved for me and I ended up skimming a lot of it.

Perhaps this is because I am more relaxed about impending relegation this time around than in the past.

That things have changed, even from our last brief excursion is an understatement. That the Premier League seems that little bit tougher nowadays might just be due to a mythical thing brought about by our three year exclusion, but with even the likes of Bournemouth, Watford and Palace spending millions upon millions it does seem that the bar has risen somewhat and that the whole experience seems more daunting.

However, has it really or is it just because the level of fees to buy even average players seems to have gotten out of all proportion? Even so I am now comfortable with the club's relative frugality, with just the proviso that I feel we must at least spend big in order to harden up our defense .....without busting the wages structure. Not an easy conundrum, but if there had've been a hidden gem lying deep then surely Webber and his team would have uncovered it by now.

I do feel though that the bottom line is that most of us, as a fan base, are more sophisticated about the financial restrictions that a club like City have, about the need to avoid massive debt and about the fun of finding out if the "alternative way" will be successful or is doomed to failure.

Back to the yo-yo club syndrome again then, but even if we do fail we will surely be in a very strong position, staff-wise and money wise to mount yet another challenge. Our Academy One status remains the jewel in our crown, imo.

Edited by BroadstairsR
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8 minutes ago, Decemberists said:

I think the article gets confused implying these correlations being the cause of staying up. It doesn’t matter at what point in the season you get your points, it just so happens this is often in certain months. 

We don’t need to follow this blueprint if we are atypical relegation avoiders. No panicking if our season looks very different to big sam’s - I expect we will go about things differently to him.

Definitely interesting though.

Big Sam is often quoted in these kind of articles, but the thing is, do we want to play his style of football and just be a defensive shield against the marauding "big" clubs, hoping to catch them out with the occasional corner/set piece.....or do we want farkeball which is attacking, positive and incisive, keeping composed and fully functioning whatever the situation?  

It is going to be fascinating - watching us play excellent football and seeing how the teams we play react to that.  Some would say we will struggle - but what they forget is that other teams, even the top ones, are under pressure to succeed too and if you pressurise them with the quality of your play, they will feel it too. 

My feeling is that we do not fit into the categories of Swansea, Bn'mth, any of Sam's teams - or Wolves for that matter......we are a one off and do not fit into any of the boxes that statisticians can conjur up.  Time will tell, but by the end of next season I think the statisticians will have to create a new box - one that shows how a team based on the Norwich way - or the Farke/Webber way if you like - can succeed against all the odds. 

Minimum spend, a club wide philosophy way of playing, ultra fit, ultra motivated in the togetherness of a squad that is so tight that it can withstand anything that is thrown at it, superb youngsters and a principle right through the club - including the fanbase (well most of them) - that understands (mostly) that we need to be relaxed and enjoy the ride - and that will see us up there with the best of them. 

Just think back to last season once we got over the first few games where we were assimilating new players - we were pretty much unstoppable - and that was against all predictions and stats.  The PL is just another league - a step up for sure - but let's not be bogged down with stats and those that expect or want us to fail. If we have learned nothing else over the last few years, it is that anything in football is possible - Lambert, Adams/Neil getting us straight back up/Farke getting us to play the best football many of us have ever seen from a Norwich side....there is no limit to what we can achieve. Believe it.

 

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Maybe we should go out and splash £40 million on today’s equivalent of RVW! Maybe that would please the Sky experts, spending money for the sake of it to give them something to report. I’ve just sat and watched them cream themselves over Villas £145 million spent and apparently they are not finished yet. Not for me, I’ll take the hard work and team spirit that this squad has built up every day of the week. This league has become a joke now with the money spent on very average players. That united are looking at spending £85 million on Maguire shows what a circus it’s become. Having said that I will still be disappointed and shocked if we don’t spend more and more importantly bring in that defensive midfielder we obviously need

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We have apparently spent a solitary £1M in transfer fees in the close season . 

Wasn’t expecting the reported purse of £20M to be spent but are the club being too tight to have a chance of surviving? That said we definitely have the best squad and style of playing in at least 2 decades . 

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We have a plan, a football identity and players selected for our model.

The key is now largely performance.

We also need to work on our variations of play and in particular the defensive variations of play for any team which plays two up top. 

Two central strikers creates vulnerabilities for us particularly with our advanced full backs as it allows two strikers the opportunity to engage our two centre backs in the counter if they can draw our holding 2 out of position. 

Toulouse will probably play 4231 which we should handle better than we handled Atalanta’s 3412.

We may need to also work on our game chasing formations too. Personally I’d love to see Pukki and Drmic in a 3412. It probably won’t happen -but I live in hope.

 

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1 hour ago, Bonzo said:

 

Toulouse will probably play 4231 which we should handle better than we handled Atalanta’s 3412.

 

 

Apparently Pukki had four decent chances against Atalanta, if he'd buried them, we'd have won 5-4 and we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. 

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10 hours ago, JF said:

Maybe we should go out and splash £40 million on today’s equivalent of RVW! Maybe that would please the Sky experts, spending money for the sake of it to give them something to report. I’ve just sat and watched them cream themselves over Villas £145 million spent and apparently they are not finished yet. Not for me, I’ll take the hard work and team spirit that this squad has built up every day of the week. This league has become a joke now with the money spent on very average players. That united are looking at spending £85 million on Maguire shows what a circus it’s become. Having said that I will still be disappointed and shocked if we don’t spend more and more importantly bring in that defensive midfielder we obviously need

That is a stupid argument. Nobody is arguing splashing the cash on a new RVW - why would they? He was a total flop. 

However purchasing a couple of genuine first team premiership quality players would be nice. 

When we went up last time we needed a CB and were too stingy to sign one till January (Klose) and it cost us. The time before we all knew we needed a CF and were too stingy to sign one till January (Ashton) and it cost us. Now we all know the CDM needs replacing and defence looks shaky...

between wasting money on journeymen and not spending is a thing called spending wisely...

 

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39 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

That is a stupid argument. Nobody is arguing splashing the cash on a new RVW - why would they? He was a total flop. 

However purchasing a couple of genuine first team premiership quality players would be nice. 

When we went up last time we needed a CB and were too stingy to sign one till January (Klose) and it cost us. The time before we all knew we needed a CF and were too stingy to sign one till January (Ashton) and it cost us. Now we all know the CDM needs replacing and defence looks shaky...

between wasting money on journeymen and not spending is a thing called spending wisely...

 

So basically you’ve confirmed what I just posted then. That we need to spend a bit more and bring in a new defensive midfielder? As for the RVW point how is that stupid? Spending big money on a centre forward doesn’t automatically guarantee goals. 

Edited by JF

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I totally ignore Sky's disappointment that we haven't dashed around the sweet shop hurling sacks of gold about the place because:

1. We already have an extremely well balanced squad with 2 decent players in each position (even DM!).

2. We can only have a 25 man squad and none of the title winners deserve to be thrown out. If we had bought Buendia, Hernandez, Leitner etc THIS window the doubters would be quieter.

3. We have recruited talented players where we needed them in Fahrmann, Roberts, Drmic and Byram.

4. A well gelled TEAM that is greater than the sum of its parts stands a better chance of performing well (as we saw in Lambert's Prem season). 

 

To survive you just need to hoover up more points than three others and I genuinely believe that we can beat and certainly draw with any team outside the top 6.

Farke is a shrewd operator and our style is well suited to Prem football ... look at how well we performed against Chelsea (twice), Cardiff and Bournemouth in cup clashes recently.

 

If we stick together, roar on the boys and buy into the revolution EVEN WHEN THINGS AREN'T PURRING then we have a great chance.

With weaker squads in the past we have either survived or it has been close.

 

We may not 'win the Transfer Window' and get shiny faced presenters drewling at our 'Total Pounds Spent' digits but we may well irritate the pundits by surviving and continuing to grow over the next few years at a pace WE dictate fulfilling a long term vision for a type of success to be really proud of ... earning our status with craft, patience and intelligence rather than just buying it.

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3 minutes ago, Cantiaci Canary said:

I totally ignore Sky's disappointment that we haven't dashed around the sweet shop hurling sacks of gold about the place because:

1. We already have an extremely well balanced squad with 2 decent players in each position (even DM!).

2. We can only have a 25 man squad and none of the title winners deserve to be thrown out. If we had bought Buendia, Hernandez, Leitner etc THIS window the doubters would be quieter.

3. We have recruited talented players where we needed them in Fahrmann, Roberts, Drmic and Byram.

4. A well gelled TEAM that is greater than the sum of its parts stands a better chance of performing well (as we saw in Lambert's Prem season). 

 

To survive you just need to hoover up more points than three others and I genuinely believe that we can beat and certainly draw with any team outside the top 6.

Farke is a shrewd operator and our style is well suited to Prem football ... look at how well we performed against Chelsea (twice), Cardiff and Bournemouth in cup clashes recently.

 

If we stick together, roar on the boys and buy into the revolution EVEN WHEN THINGS AREN'T PURRING then we have a great chance.

With weaker squads in the past we have either survived or it has been close.

 

We may not 'win the Transfer Window' and get shiny faced presenters drewling at our 'Total Pounds Spent' digits but we may well irritate the pundits by surviving and continuing to grow over the next few years at a pace WE dictate fulfilling a long term vision for a type of success to be really proud of ... earning our status with craft, patience and intelligence rather than just buying it.

Spot on. 

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