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Flying Dutchman

Sin bins introduced at grassroots level

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15 minutes ago, Flying Dutchman said:

Works brilliantly at lower levels - I play Sunday League and Veterans, and for the last two years it's worked like a charm. When a ref says "any more from you and you'll go to the bin", the dissenter's team-mates will generally pull him away and tell him to shut up. Not sure how it would work at the professional level, as different refs have different tolerance level and it'd probably get shredded by the media/pundits for inconsistency.

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I coach a boy's football team and we've been briefed on this.

I would hope it's not necessary at Under 7s, as if any of my players are acting up, they'll be subbed off before a ref has to take action and I'd like to think that's the case across the board.

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It is controversial to say the least. Some are saying it is the standard of refereeing that is the problem. But at junior level it can be a well meaning parent, often having to put up with unwelcome advice from parents. I remember when my boys were young and playing, refereeing a match down in Mullion and their coach offering a can of coke to the first boy to score a hat trick against us. And when I spoke to the chap he basically told me to eff off and concentrate on refereeing, which I had volunteered to do. And the kids were lining up to score against us which ruined the game.

I think kids should be left to get on with it on the pitch. Training and coaching fair enough but let them just go out and play. The good ones will come to peoples notice in the end. And the rest who just want to play will probably stay at that level.

Obviously, if it is a qualified referee, then I think it is a good idea for gobby kids to spend ten minutes cooling down rather than sending them off.

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Interesting that VAR and goal line technology is introduced at the top of the game yet something like sin bins which would be much easier to implement has to filter upwards. 

I guess, if I were a conspiracy theorist, I might suggest that it's the Big Clubs who, when a decision goes against them, are seen chasing referees all over the pitch. Which is why it'll take ages to get to the top of the game. 

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10 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

And the kids were lining up to score against us which ruined the game.

 

The opposition trying to score against you ruined the game? 🤔

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2 minutes ago, splendidrush said:

Interesting that VAR and goal line technology is introduced at the top of the game yet something like sin bins which would be much easier to implement has to filter upwards. 

I guess, if I were a conspiracy theorist, I might suggest that it's the Big Clubs who, when a decision goes against them, are seen chasing referees all over the pitch. Which is why it'll take ages to get to the top of the game. 

Not sure about that.

VAR, for all its controversies, is certainly going to remove a few elements of ref's being pressured into giving/not giving certain decisions. EG: A big club striker throwing himself around in the box in the final minutes when chasing a game.

I think VAR and goal line technology were just seen overall as having more benefits to a fair game. I dont think it's anything to do with big clubs wanting/not wanting something.

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4 minutes ago, splendidrush said:

Interesting that VAR and goal line technology is introduced at the top of the game yet something like sin bins which would be much easier to implement has to filter upwards. 

I guess, if I were a conspiracy theorist, I might suggest that it's the Big Clubs who, when a decision goes against them, are seen chasing referees all over the pitch. Which is why it'll take ages to get to the top of the game. 

It's a pretty major rule change, which means that it won't be implemented at the top level straight away. VAR was tested at lower levels before it was introduced at the top.

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22 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

It's a pretty major rule change, which means that it won't be implemented at the top level straight away. VAR was tested at lower levels before it was introduced at the top.

I would say that VAR is far bigger than sin bins. 

 

25 minutes ago, Flying Dutchman said:

 

I think VAR and goal line technology were just seen overall as having more benefits to a fair game. I dont think it's anything to do with big clubs wanting/not wanting something.

There will be all sorts of complaints, and not just from us, within weeks of the start of the new season. 

You underestimate the power that the Big Clubs possess. 

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Just now, splendidrush said:

I would say that VAR is far bigger than sin bins. 

 

There will be all sorts of complaints, and not just from us, within weeks of the start of the new season. 

You underestimate the power that the Big Clubs possess. 

Nobody underestimates the power they have, I think most can see it for sure. 

My point is that VAR could well take some of the on-pitch referee influencing away. 

That may only be a small amount for now, but it's a positive step towards balancing the odds.

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I hope you are right Dutch, my reservation is based on the fact that football, especially the Premier League, is no longer a sport, more a business. 

Who ploughs the most money into Sky and the Premier League? Why, it's the Big Clubs, for them there's no financial benefit in seeing Norwich or Watford winning the League. 

Conversely, what are the chances of one of the Big Clubs being relegated? Not going to happen. The finances have been secured and with that comes power and influence. 

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20 minutes ago, splendidrush said:

I would say that VAR is far bigger than sin bins. 

I'm not sure I agree. VAR only serves to enforce existing rules, whereas the 'sin bin' rule is a completely new law which actually changes the dynamics of the game itself.

Both are pretty major developments however, and both needed to be trialled before their introduction at the top end of the game.

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The question for me is, if you introduce the Sin Bin then where do you apply it as a punishment? Is it a replacement for Yellow Cards? Is it for specific offences? Will we see fewer red cards? What constitutes an offence serious enough to be binned, but not serious enough to be sent off? Does a mistimed but not necessarily malicious tackle automatically get you a 10-minute time out? Or are we going to say that deliberately bad tackles now only merit the sin bin, not a red card for deliberate foul play? What if a 'Keeper gets sin-binned? Stick an outfielder in goal for 10 minutes? Sub off a second outfielder for your backup 'keeper for 10 minutes only - Then bring them back on when the original GK has served his time?! Or does the backup 'keeper then end up playing outfield for the rest of the match?! 

I can see plenty of merit to the idea but it needs to be looked at VERY carefully if it's a serious proposal, so trialling different formats of the rules in the amateur or lower league game is definitely the way to go!

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All valid questions andy, fact is, sin bins are already used in Rugby, the rules can evolve over time, like the offside rule, or back passes. This season, they've introduced players receiving the ball from the 'keeper inside the penalty area. 

I can't answer your questions but it seems to me that sin bins would be much cheaper to introduce, the cost of VAR may be prohibitive further down the Leagues, meaning ultimately, that the sport will be operating under 2 sets of rules. 

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21 hours ago, andyc24_uk said:

The question for me is, if you introduce the Sin Bin then where do you apply it as a punishment? Is it a replacement for Yellow Cards? Is it for specific offences? Will we see fewer red cards? What constitutes an offence serious enough to be binned, but not serious enough to be sent off? Does a mistimed but not necessarily malicious tackle automatically get you a 10-minute time out? Or are we going to say that deliberately bad tackles now only merit the sin bin, not a red card for deliberate foul play? What if a 'Keeper gets sin-binned? Stick an outfielder in goal for 10 minutes? Sub off a second outfielder for your backup 'keeper for 10 minutes only - Then bring them back on when the original GK has served his time?! Or does the backup 'keeper then end up playing outfield for the rest of the match?! 

I can see plenty of merit to the idea but it needs to be looked at VERY carefully if it's a serious proposal, so trialling different formats of the rules in the amateur or lower league game is definitely the way to go!

It's for dissent only.

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Dissent is the easiest offence for a referee to recognise. There are already adequate punishments in place to deal with it so why change anything? The only thing needing change is that referees should implement the laws of the game. 

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The opposition trying to score against you ruined the game?

You know that isn't what I said or meant. I hate to see cocky kids and when they are literally pushing each other out of the way to score then that is unacceptable. We were just providing fundraising, taxi services. putting up nets and refereeing and running the line just to give kids in the area a game of football. Not everyone is a child prodigy and some lads just want to play for the love of the game. Beat them if you are better but don't take the pish because you are.

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