Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,204 Posted July 29, 2019 Interesting tactical analysis of Liverpool’s tactical weaknesses in La Gazzetta today. Liverpool were soundly beaten 3-0 by Napoli, despite Van Dijk having a good game and Liverpool playing a lot of 1st Team players, minus admittedly the key front 3. However Napoli’s approach might be instructive. They focused hard on a reverse overload defensively and used short one-touch passing to break through Liverpool’s high press, which was dis-ordered. Insigne - playing à la Buendia - had a field day and pulled the shape of Liverpool’s links between their deeper-lying flat midfield 3 and their defensive line, which appeared lacking communication and clear structure. Napoli’s co-ordinated counters - chosen carefully and executed fluidly - repeatedly caused Liverpool problems. Whilst it was a friendly, and Napoli got a thrashing pre-season last year by Liverpool, Liverpool showed a great number of weaknesses, despite a fantastic 60k fans being present. A hangover from the Champions League early season was suggested in Italy - a phenomenon that Italian clubs note and expect - though there was broad agreement that Liverpool look a long way away tactically from their own classic style and standards. Napoli’s approach might well be not a million miles away as a template for Norwich next week. Parma 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Angry 1,512 Posted July 29, 2019 They also had Alisson missing and they were only pressing with 1 or 2 players instead of 3 or 4 as normal. Definitely weaknesses though, if only the fact that Alisson, Mane, Salah and Firmino (if they all play) will have only had 2 weeks preparation with their teammates. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TCCANARY 263 Posted July 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said: Interesting tactical analysis of Liverpool’s tactical weaknesses in La Gazzetta today. Liverpool were soundly beaten 3-0 by Napoli, despite Van Dijk having a good game and Liverpool playing a lot of 1st Team players, minus admittedly the key front 3. However Napoli’s approach might be instructive. They focused hard on a reverse overload defensively and used short one-touch passing to break through Liverpool’s high press, which was dis-ordered. Insigne - playing à la Buendia - had a field day and pulled the shape of Liverpool’s links between their deeper-lying flat midfield 3 and their defensive line, which appeared lacking communication and clear structure. Napoli’s co-ordinated counters - chosen carefully and executed fluidly - repeatedly caused Liverpool problems. Whilst it was a friendly, and Napoli got a thrashing pre-season last year by Liverpool, Liverpool showed a great number of weaknesses, despite a fantastic 60k fans being present. A hangover from the Champions League early season was suggested in Italy - a phenomenon that Italian clubs note and expect - though there was broad agreement that Liverpool look a long way away tactically from their own classic style and standards. Napoli’s approach might well be not a million miles away as a template for Norwich next week. Parma What's a 'reverse overload'? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alex Moss 2,165 Posted July 29, 2019 Personally, I really can’t read too much into Liverpool’s pre season form, ‘or lack of’. They have some good players all over the pitch, but let’s be honest, what transforms them from a good side into a spectacular side is the devastating trident of Salah, Mane and Firmino. I doubt they’d have lost as much as a single pre season friendly had those boys been playing. When those players are back, I’m sure Liverpool will keep the opposition on the back foot as usual, so personally I wouldn’t read anything into it. No technical breakdown needed where Liverpool’s issues have been this summer - it’s obvious and self explanatory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yelloow Since 72 53 Posted July 29, 2019 3 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said: Interesting tactical analysis of Liverpool’s tactical weaknesses in La Gazzetta today. Liverpool were soundly beaten 3-0 by Napoli, despite Van Dijk having a good game and Liverpool playing a lot of 1st Team players, minus admittedly the key front 3. However Napoli’s approach might be instructive. They focused hard on a reverse overload defensively and used short one-touch passing to break through Liverpool’s high press, which was dis-ordered. Insigne - playing à la Buendia - had a field day and pulled the shape of Liverpool’s links between their deeper-lying flat midfield 3 and their defensive line, which appeared lacking communication and clear structure. Napoli’s co-ordinated counters - chosen carefully and executed fluidly - repeatedly caused Liverpool problems. Whilst it was a friendly, and Napoli got a thrashing pre-season last year by Liverpool, Liverpool showed a great number of weaknesses, despite a fantastic 60k fans being present. A hangover from the Champions League early season was suggested in Italy - a phenomenon that Italian clubs note and expect - though there was broad agreement that Liverpool look a long way away tactically from their own classic style and standards. Napoli’s approach might well be not a million miles away as a template for Norwich next week. Parma I agree that these are areas we should try to exploit, along with their likely over-confidence playing us at home. The high press becomes a weakness if it can be bypassed effectively (though that goes for ours as well). If we can make accurate medium length passes (like that of Roberts to Cantwell whose blocked shot lead to Drmic's first goal against Luton), the pace and movement of Pukki, Hernandez (or Roberts) and Buendia could create chances. This, IMO, would need to be balanced by playing 3CBs to deal with Liverpool's attacking players at the other end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vazzza 62 Posted July 29, 2019 15 minutes ago, Yelloow Since 72 said: This, IMO, would need to be balanced by playing 3CBs to deal with Liverpool's attacking players at the other end. And the rest, more like 10 CB's lol 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BroadstairsR 2,095 Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) Fatigue might be their biggest weakness after their gruelling pre-season: July 11: Vs. Tranmere – Prenton Park July 14: Vs. Bradford – Valley Parade July 19: Vs. Dortmund – Indiana, USA July 21: Vs. Sevilla – Boston, USA July 24: Vs. Sporting CP – New York, USA July 28: Vs. Napoli – Edinburgh July 31: Vs. Lyon – Geneva Aug 4: Vs. Man City – Wembley England --- America(and on the road,) --- Scotland --- Switzerland--- Wembley Stadium (v Man.City.) That's tough, with a lot of travelling. Not one fixture at Anfield, instead a lot of commercially biased stuff. Pre-season to clubs like Liverpool seems to have turned into a money making enterprise rather than an exercise to prepare for the season ahead. Can we gain from it? Our pre-season was well-planned, thorough and conducted primarily with the season ahead in mind. Edited July 29, 2019 by BroadstairsR 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ron obvious 1,473 Posted July 29, 2019 23 minutes ago, Vazzza said: And the rest, more like 10 CB's lol That's the spirit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baldy09 154 Posted July 29, 2019 We (city ) really need "many" such weaknesses in the Liverpool squad - if we hope to get off to a good start Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,239 Posted July 29, 2019 3 hours ago, TCCANARY said: What's a 'reverse overload'? Yes, must say it confused me too. Football used to be such a simple game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mello Yello 2,265 Posted July 29, 2019 What's a 'reverse overload'?....... Is it where the world falls out of your bottom?...... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,290 Posted July 29, 2019 Somewhere out beyond the stars, in a parallel universe, where nobody hears you scream, there is an online forum of Liverpool fans and they have a thread entitled"Norwich City's weaknesses". Some wag thought the way to beat us was to reverse-overload the Higg's Bosun. Fortunately, we're not daft enough to do that. Or are we? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alex Moss 2,165 Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) What a yardstick this game will be for us. As you would probably expect we’ve been largely written off by Liverpool supporters, from bits and pieces I’ve seen on their message boards etc. Still feel we could spring a real surprise (to the football world outside of Norwich) if we play like how we know we can. They obviously really know their stuff about us as the majority (thus far) on their relegation thread have got the champions going down with Sheff Utd, but not one person thinks Villa... https://forums.liverpoolfc.com/threads/401820-2019-2020-season-predictions Edited July 29, 2019 by Alex Moss Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,204 Posted July 29, 2019 Overloads are a fundamental part of the modern game, obsessively loved by Guardiola for example. It involves creating 2v1 in your favour in small areas anywhere on the pitch. In possession Guardiola will take any number of tactical risks to create such scenarios, indeed one could easily argue that this single ploy is the essence and result of all of his other tactical nuances. I used reverse overload to explain what Napoli did, which is to (unusually) load the support in defensive areas - deliberately abandoning and vacating other areas of the field - to ensure dominance and continued possession of the ball in the deep build up areas, thus being able to escape he key Liverpool tactical weapon of the high press upon which much of their tactical efforts - and success - has been based. The Italian papers made much of this interesting tactical ploy by Napoli because - as Guardiola himself has admitted - it is highly effective weapon that Liverpool use a lot and has been hard to combat for many teams. Parma 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nuff Said 4,938 Posted July 29, 2019 4 hours ago, TCCANARY said: What's a 'reverse overload'? It’s like an overload but accompanied by a annoying loud beeping. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FenwayFrank 2,426 Posted July 29, 2019 4 hours ago, TCCANARY said: What's a 'reverse overload'? It’s the use of unnecessary jargon in an attempt to sound clever. I had a different sort of reverse overload with a girl once, very messy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted July 29, 2019 Wasn’t paying much attention but I’m pretty sure I just caught the end of Klopp moaning about having to play the charity shield game and how pointless it was on SPN. Happy to travel the world for pointless games when there’s plenty of money on offer though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,290 Posted July 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said: Overloads are a fundamental part of the modern game, obsessively loved by Guardiola for example. It involves creating 2v1 in your favour in small areas anywhere on the pitch. In possession Guardiola will take any number of tactical risks to create such scenarios, indeed one could easily argue that this single ploy is the essence and result of all of his other tactical nuances. I used reverse overload to explain what Napoli did, which is to (unusually) load the support in defensive areas - deliberately abandoning and vacating other areas of the field - to ensure dominance and continued possession of the ball in the deep build up areas, thus being able to escape he key Liverpool tactical weapon of the high press upon which much of their tactical efforts - and success - has been based. The Italian papers made much of this interesting tactical ploy by Napoli because - as Guardiola himself has admitted - it is highly effective weapon that Liverpool use a lot and has been hard to combat for many teams. Parma Is that the same as 'parking the bus'? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,232 Posted July 29, 2019 The biggest weakness this time round, no Luis Saurez! 11 goals in 5 games against us..........so that’s 2.2 goals we won’t have to score. 👍😂 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aggy 739 Posted July 29, 2019 It makes sense, Liverpool close down high up the pitch - the “reverse overload” (as I understand it) is basically trying to have a spare man to pass to in the defensive third. So when Liverpool are pressing you, you have an extra man to pass to. The problem is that a full strength Liverpool are devastating when they press and don’t let you regroup or have any time on the ball, so you have to defend in bulk so that instantly after winning the ball back you have the extra men around straight away. It could work for us as a lot of our good work comes through our full backs, and we do play the ball out well. Napoli’s squad though is a bit decent, so I think it will be a different challenge for us (especially assuming Liverpool play their front three against us). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,239 Posted July 29, 2019 3 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said: Overloads are a fundamental part of the modern game, obsessively loved by Guardiola for example. It involves creating 2v1 in your favour in small areas anywhere on the pitch. In possession Guardiola will take any number of tactical risks to create such scenarios, indeed one could easily argue that this single ploy is the essence and result of all of his other tactical nuances. I used reverse overload to explain what Napoli did, which is to (unusually) load the support in defensive areas - deliberately abandoning and vacating other areas of the field - to ensure dominance and continued possession of the ball in the deep build up areas, thus being able to escape he key Liverpool tactical weapon of the high press upon which much of their tactical efforts - and success - has been based. The Italian papers made much of this interesting tactical ploy by Napoli because - as Guardiola himself has admitted - it is highly effective weapon that Liverpool use a lot and has been hard to combat for many teams. Parma Thanks for the explanation Parma. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
splendidrush 698 Posted July 29, 2019 Seems like the game is getting more complicated as time goes by. Glad someone explained 'reverse overload' to me, as I had no idea. Watching Benjamin Bloom recently, his new favourite phrase? 'Double pivot '..... no idea. I have a junior coaching license, guess I'm going to have to go back to school. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Worcester Yellow 7 Posted July 29, 2019 5 hours ago, Mello Yello said: What's a 'reverse overload'?....... Is it where the world falls out of your bottom?...... Do we feed them Vindaloo then at lunchtime??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wcorkcanary 4,315 Posted July 30, 2019 7 hours ago, splendidrush said: Seems like the game is getting more complicated as time goes by. Glad someone explained 'reverse overload' to me, as I had no idea. Watching Benjamin Bloom recently, his new favourite phrase? 'Double pivot '..... no idea. I have a junior coaching license, guess I'm going to have to go back to school. I think we did the double pivot thing on here a year or two back, football jargon is a trend thing, mainly propagated by pundits wishing to look insightful. Overloading one area of the pitch obviously creates space in another part of the pitch, a well timed and accurate pass out of the over loaded area into the space created is the key here....as long as the team in possession have a player ready to move onto said pass an opportunity to attack is often created. Simple mantra . ... Space created, ball delivered, player arrives . It's the manner in which the space is created that makes it all so interesting to watch. God I love good football. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,585 Posted July 30, 2019 If the stereotype is to be believed their weakness is unattended bags and unlocked cars. 😀 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bonzo 198 Posted July 30, 2019 There are some interesting posts on here. In a way we are fortunate to get this fixture first. As others note Liverpool have many players that have not had a full summer break. A high press is something that we know how to handle. Ok so Liverpool are something else given the quality of their team but this is still a game of football. It will be like a cup final for us (as indeed every game this season will be). They are undoubtedly massive favourites to win but if we play out of our skins and they take this lightly or are not fully at the races then we might get something out of the game. Even a loss of some margin won’t damage morale for us. In a way Liverpool have everything to lose. We can only gain from the experience even if they thump us 4 or 5 nil. Furthermore we can certainly score goals and its not just due to the speed or skill of our players but through the fast fluid passing movements of our team. I cant help but think that our style of playing might suit the premiership far more than it suits the championship. If we get whipped it won’t matter just as long as we land a few blows of our own. A point would be massive. Yet whatever the outcome our team will learn a huge amount from playing this game. It can only improve us. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cornish sam 923 Posted July 30, 2019 46 minutes ago, Herman said: If the stereotype is to be believed their weakness is unattended bags and unlocked cars. 😀 ...they don't have to be unlocked, just have nice wheels. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,204 Posted July 30, 2019 Bravo Bonzo...that’s the spirit 👌👍🇮🇹 We have more going for us than might superficially appear. Parma Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mello Yello 2,265 Posted July 30, 2019 13 hours ago, Worcester Yellow said: Do we feed them Vindaloo then at lunchtime??? #"NA NA NAH!"#......as Keith Allen would sing...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ron obvious 1,473 Posted July 30, 2019 5 hours ago, Bonzo said: There are some interesting posts on here. In a way we are fortunate to get this fixture first. As others note Liverpool have many players that have not had a full summer break. A high press is something that we know how to handle. Ok so Liverpool are something else given the quality of their team but this is still a game of football. It will be like a cup final for us (as indeed every game this season will be). They are undoubtedly massive favourites to win but if we play out of our skins and they take this lightly or are not fully at the races then we might get something out of the game. Even a loss of some margin won’t damage morale for us. In a way Liverpool have everything to lose. We can only gain from the experience even if they thump us 4 or 5 nil. Furthermore we can certainly score goals and its not just due to the speed or skill of our players but through the fast fluid passing movements of our team. I cant help but think that our style of playing might suit the premiership far more than it suits the championship. If we get whipped it won’t matter just as long as we land a few blows of our own. A point would be massive. Yet whatever the outcome our team will learn a huge amount from playing this game. It can only improve us. Exactly right! Also I think we dominated teams so comprehensively last season that we didn't bother enough about conceding daft goals. I think we'll have a different attitude in the PL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites