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The future of Ben Godfrey  

62 members have voted

  1. 1. Where would you play him?

    • Centre back
      54
    • Defensive midfield
      8


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It appears to have gone completely under the radar that we need a defensive midfielder. I have no idea why such a glaring issue seems to have gone completely unnoticed by many. 

Some of those eagle-eyed supporters who have noticed quite possibly the only remaining large gap in our first team squad have suggested that young Ben Godfrey could be the solution to the problem, which I suppose would then mean that the final piece of the jigsaw would become a centre back, but that's another debate entirely.

But it raises a valid question: what does the future hold for Ben? Will Farke and his future coaches use him in defence or midfield? And in the eyes of the Pinkun posters, where should he play in the long-term?

The arguments for midfield are plentiful. He started off his professional career at York as a midfielder and, according to Transfermarkt, has played 59 professional games as a defensive/central midfielder compared to 53 as a centre back (with seven at full back). He also rose to prominence in the professional game as a defensive midfielder at Shrewsbury and was a standout performer in a side that punched above its weight in League One and were incredibly unlucky not to go up.

He has the attributes to do it, which seems to the main argument of the posters who put forward the idea. He's big, strong and mobile enough to cover large areas of the pitch and win the ball back whilst also having the technical skill to pass the ball and help start moves in possession. We also saw with his goal against Reading last season that he can stride forward and contribute in open play.

But, on the other hand, he has just completed a season at the highest level he has ever played at: the top end of the Championship. And where did he establish himself as am important first team player? At centre back.

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that the plan with Godfrey ever since we signed him on his 18th birthday was that he was going to be converted to centre back. Again, he has the physical attributes to do it with his height, strength and pace. His technical skill can be used in bringing the ball out of the defence, as he does on a regular basis: whenever there is the opportunity to move into ten yards of space ahead of him, he takes it. His passing is certainly good enough to play this way, which has become so important at the top end of modern football. He may still have slight issues with his positioning and defensive instinct as we did concede two or three goals around January as a result of 'his man' having an extra yard or two of space in the box, but this is something that will come with experience.

So what do we see as his best position long-term? I'd say centre back. The main reason for that is the fact that he has broken into our first-team and established himself as an important player in that position. It's now a position that he knows, he's comfortable in, and he has built an understanding with his team-mates here. If it ain't broke, why fix it? I know some will say it is partially broken because of the number of goals we conceded last season, but I think that's more down to the gung-ho system rather than the individuals in it.

So what do you all think? Holding midfielder or centre back?

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Imo he is one of those players that can play anywhere on the field, but has to all intents and purposes proved himself at CB.  People don't like change (take the Russell Martin debate as an example) and still think he is a DM, but surely after last season he has to be considered a CB first and foremost? 

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Depends what style of football the team he is playing in use.

He'd be an average DM for a Farke team, because he doesn't have the technique required to regularly receive the ball under pressure. At centre back he has more time on the ball and can use his passing skill and ability to run with the ball to progress through the thirds - would be a real shame to lose that from the team. 

If he was somewhere like Cardiff under Warnock, then you'd play him in defence as his passing ability would be wasted there and there would be no worries about having to receive the ball under pressure in midfield.

You wouldn't have played Rio Ferdinand in midfield, so don't put Godfrey there.

 

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I agree with Bethnal. He could do a job in either position. In our team, with our style, CB is the most natural solution for him. His physical attributes are what we need for a DM but he doesn't have the technique - whilst good for a CB  -  as a DM for the style we play in the Premier League.

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Ben Godfrey is a modern Centre Back. There are not so many Ferdinand or Stones style English Centre Backs with his attributes. He is the present and the future of the role (we have been 30+ years behind others).

If he plays well this year he could be worth £40m given the scarcity value of such an asset. 

Play Godfrey, enjoy his quality and buy another CDM.

Parma

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Ben is likely a starter regardless.   If our DM is performing it's clear he will play CB.     The DM is likely Trybull or a new recruit.   Tettey cant play in this set up, the required intensity and variation of passing optuons is too much for him.   Doubt he will get in the match squad if everyone is fit.

Ben comes into this reckoning if we don't get someone in or Tom cany cope.  It then becomes a no brainer.   Someone rightly questioned if he can retain the ball under pressure.   Well, Farke will sure help him improve if necessary but fundamentally he does possess the speed and  strength to do the DM job probably better than any.     Great that we have the option.      

Hope he plays CB and we dont need him elsewhere but Ben in front of Klose and Zimmermann......where's the problem?

Options everywhere, we could go 3 at the back even.....

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2 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Ben Godfrey is a modern Centre Back. There are not so many Ferdinand or Stones style English Centre Backs with his attributes. He is the present and the future of the role (we have been 30+ years behind others).

If he plays well this year he could be worth £40m given the scarcity value of such an asset. 

Play Godfrey, enjoy his quality and buy another CDM.

Parma

Ditto.

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Agree exactly with the above, Ball playing CBs are the way forward now

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Personally I prefer him at CB for a lot of the reasons already mentioned above. However if we don't sign a CDM in this window I think he'll end up playing a lot of his football further forward this season. I do like Trybull but have a horrible gut feeling he isn't going to cut it. I think everyone agrees Tetty isn't the solution and a fit Thompson is still an unknown, so only leaves us with 1 option.

I must admit, I like the idea of having Godfrey in front of Zimmerman and Klose with the ability to drop back and make a 3 allowing Aarons and Lewis to both move forward simultaneously...

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1 hour ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Ben Godfrey is a modern Centre Back. There are not so many Ferdinand or Stones style English Centre Backs with his attributes. He is the present anBingo.d the future of the role (we have been 30+ years behind others).

If he plays well this year he could be worth £40m given the scarcity value of such an asset. 

Play Godfrey, enjoy his quality and buy another CDM.

Parma

Bingo.

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.....thing is though....yes he might be a 'ball playing defender', which are the attributes which make me believe he can recieve the ball and distribute at the base of the midfield but I'm not so sure about some of the other attributes that make a defender?....the ones required to keep goals out, some of the fundamenals of defending , I still believe he still has some way to go.

..lets not forget we were less than perfect defensively last season, conceding 55 compared to Sheff Utds 20 odd.

   We can play the ball out from the back much as we like but if we havent got defenders that can defend and keep goals out, it might be a brief stay in this league.

   Just as with Aarons and Lewis until we kick a ball in the premier league, we really dont know how these young defenders will fare.

   Circumstances might force the managers hand in a different direction

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27 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Bingo.

"He is the present anBingo.d the future of the role (we have been 30+ years behind others)."

Wolfie smashing the keyboard with his noggin again.... Look what happened in the Parma quote!

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35 minutes ago, Vazzza said:

Personally I prefer him at CB for a lot of the reasons already mentioned above. However if we don't sign a CDM in this window I think he'll end up playing a lot of his football further forward this season. I do like Trybull but have a horrible gut feeling he isn't going to cut it. I think everyone agrees Tetty isn't the solution and a fit Thompson is still an unknown, so only leaves us with 1 option.

I must admit, I like the idea of having Godfrey in front of Zimmerman and Klose with the ability to drop back and make a 3 allowing Aarons and Lewis to both move forward simultaneously...

This is similar to the discussion on the transfer thread where I posted:

Tettey was hugely improved last season when playing alongside Leitner, who reads the game so well and has the ability to be in the right place for a pass when Tettey is under pressure. Leitner then either moves or passes it up the pitch to the attacking players.

The other possibility is that we play 3-4-3 (as we did at the end of the Schaulke match) and Godfrey moves up to midfield when we have the ball and drops back when it's lost, thus allowing him to play to both his strengths. 

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10 minutes ago, Yelloow Since 72 said:

This is similar to the discussion on the transfer thread where I posted:

Tettey was hugely improved last season when playing alongside Leitner, who reads the game so well and has the ability to be in the right place for a pass when Tettey is under pressure. Leitner then either moves or passes it up the pitch to the attacking players.

The other possibility is that we play 3-4-3 (as we did at the end of the Schaulke match) and Godfrey moves up to midfield when we have the ball and drops back when it's lost, thus allowing him to play to both his strengths. 

That's the way I see it. Tettey is a brilliant disruptor, with head or feet, great positional sense, knows when to commit a 'professional' foul (never seen him do anything malicious though) & his game has always been to chase, harry, win the ball back & short pass to someone like Mo. My main concern with him is lack of pace which is likely to get seriously exposed in the PL.

However it wouldn't surprise me to see those two to be picked as our best option against some teams this season.

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Farke has been quoted as saying that Ben could be a Premier League midfield player or an International Centre Half. It's nice to have problems like this to chat about and it's a worthwhile post but I think I'll trust Farke. Although he should obviously be sacked if we are not top 4 at Christmas 😊

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I have a sense that we may not be getting another CDM. I may of course be proved spectacularly wrong on this point and have to wipe the egg off my face later......

Leave Godfrey where he is at CB though. It's his best position and he's still improving in this role.

There are a couple of reasons why this may be the outcome. Firstly, last season we played with Trybull who is undoubtedly a CDM plus one deep lying center mid- pick one from Lietner, Vrancic,Mclean. We may also do the same this year. 

The assumption is that 4231 requires two out and out CDM players. This is not necessarily the case. A play-maker with average defensive attributes is also an option.  It is what we did last year and we won the league.

There is always the option of Tetty and Thompson, however this year there is also the option of Byram as a second CDM if you want someone with more defensive credentials other than Leitner/ Vrancic/Mclean.

I'd very much like to see what Byram would be like in that area as I suspect he'd be a good option in there and he may even be first choice cover for Trybull. 

It seems to me that we are possibly not going to go ultra defensive for the 2 in our 4231 when we can opt for a deep lying play maker.  

The second reason we may not sign a specialist CDM is that formation changes are the other way of solving the problem of being potentially weak in the middle if opponents are getting too much ascendancy in this area.   

The other reason I am inclined to speculate thus is that were a second CDM a priority then we'd have already signed one and they'd have played a pre season already. Its not happened.  

Furthermore didn't Delia or Michael say we were going to be brave this year? Well, this is what being brave looks like. A deep lying play maker as an alternative to a second out and out ball winner.

If we have to shut up shop its Byram, Tetty or Thompson on as a sub. 

 

Edited by Bonzo
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I'm fairly sure that the management don't think we need to sign a CDM and recently stated that we have two players for every position now. We have loads of midfield options and we will definitely be trying to continue playing the same attacking style of football as last season. Godfrey is the best centre back I've ever seen play for Norwich. Leave him there.

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21 minutes ago, Petriix said:

I'm fairly sure that the management don't think we need to sign a CDM and recently stated that we have two players for every position now. We have loads of midfield options and we will definitely be trying to continue playing the same attacking style of football as last season. Godfrey is the best centre back I've ever seen play for Norwich. Leave him there.

The best centre half youve ever seen ?.....how long gave you been watching Norwich, if you dont mind my asking?

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1 hour ago, Petriix said:

I'm fairly sure that the management don't think we need to sign a CDM and recently stated that we have two players for every position now. We have loads of midfield options and we will definitely be trying to continue playing the same attacking style of football as last season. Godfrey is the best centre back I've ever seen play for Norwich. Leave him there.

Godfrey wasn’t even the best centreback last season...

He has potential to be a great defender, but that is some serious overhyping. 

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1 hour ago, Bonzo said:

It seems to me that we are possibly not going to go ultra defensive for the 2 in our 4231 when we can opt for a deep lying play maker.  

The other reason I am inclined to speculate thus is that were a second CDM a priority then we'd have already signed one and they'd have played a pre season already. Its not happened.  

 

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting we play 2 CDM, but are suggesting that the current options (Trybull, Tettey & Thompson) are not the answer as first choice. I think most peoples first choice Central Midfielders would be one of Leitner / Vrancic / McClean (in that order for me), with the new CDM.

1 hour ago, Petriix said:

I'm fairly sure that the management don't think we need to sign a CDM and recently stated that we have two players for every position now. We have loads of midfield options and we will definitely be trying to continue playing the same attacking style of football as last season. Godfrey is the best centre back I've ever seen play for Norwich. Leave him there.

I'm a big Godfrey fan and I think he can go a long way but this is a bold statement considering some we've had. I'm not convinced he's even our current best CB (Klose for me, but only just).

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6 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

It appears to have gone completely under the radar that we need a defensive midfielder.

No - I think somebody might have suggested it on the transfer thread :classic_biggrin:

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20 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting we play 2 CDM, but are suggesting that the current options (Trybull, Tettey & Thompson) are not the answer as first choice. I think most peoples first choice Central Midfielders would be one of Leitner / Vrancic / McClean (in that order for me), with the new CDM.

I'm a big Godfrey fan and I think he can go a long way but this is a bold statement considering some we've had. I'm not convinced he's even our current best CB (Klose for me, but only just).

Sorry, by 'best' I meant most valuable, greatest potential, best ability for his age. I actually think Zimmerman was technically (and statistically) the best last season. Godfrey has attributes which take him to a whole different level than anyone I've seen playing CB for Norwich.

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6 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

.....thing is though....yes he might be a 'ball playing defender', which are the attributes which make me believe he can recieve the ball and distribute at the base of the midfield but I'm not so sure about some of the other attributes that make a defender?....the ones required to keep goals out, some of the fundamenals of defending , I still believe he still has some way to go.

..lets not forget we were less than perfect defensively last season, conceding 55 compared to Sheff Utds 20 odd.

   We can play the ball out from the back much as we like but if we havent got defenders that can defend and keep goals out, it might be a brief stay in this league.

   Just as with Aarons and Lewis until we kick a ball in the premier league, we really dont know how these young defenders will fare.

   Circumstances might force the managers hand in a different direction

If Webber wasn’t 100 % certain he would sell now and bring in more experienced players. Webber always sells ( see his comments re Maddison and Grealish ) at the highest achievable value and if he didn’t think they were good enough he would take the £60 - £80m that is allegedly on offer already. If they fail in the Premiership their value will sink rapidly.

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6 minutes ago, Well b back said:

If Webber wasn’t 100 % certain he would sell now and bring in more experienced players. Webber always sells ( see his comments re Maddison and Grealish ) at the highest achievable value and if he didn’t think they were good enough he would take the £60 - £80m that is allegedly on offer already. If they fail in the Premiership their value will sink rapidly.

I agree with the sentiment but the whole premise is based upon the fact Webber / Farke are correct. There is too much generalisation about the ability of managers / staff; they are either infallible or utterly useless, when neither is ever really the case.  They could - whilst doing an amazing job thus far - get this wrong.

I trust Farke and Webbers judgement wholeheartedly, however, that does not mean they will get everything right and is therefore not a reason to dismiss the question if they will succeed (I think they will).

For what it's worth and despite what I have said above, I think they are all good enough and will be worth a lot more at the end of next season (Max and Ben more so than Jamal), regardless of our position.

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Godfrey makes quite a number of defensive errors. Not necessarily glaring massive ones, but is often caught out of position when playing at the back. Sometimes it’s only even slightly out of position but it makes a difference - and you feel that Klose (for instance) wouldn’t have got caught out. Willing to put that down to it not being his “natural” position and having to learn (as well as him still being young). Someone mentions Stones above - he looked like a quality ball playing defender but a bit of a liability defensively a few seasons ago. He seems to have ironed out the errors a bit, Godfrey needs to do the same if he’s going to be a quality centre back.

I do think he’d make a good holding midfielder who can drop in to make a back three when the two full backs bomb on. I think he’d fit the formation perfectly as a DM.

But, I think if he is to go to the very top, he would probably fit in to a “big club” more as a centre back - if he can iron out those slight defensive lapses/“wisen up” to the defensive side a bit more. 

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