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4 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

Then you employ him as a coach and not extend his playing contract, which I should imagine might be more costly.

Depends on the terms agreed by the club, as third choice might not be bad as cover should injury occur!

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I cannot believe ppl are moaning about this situation. They are clearly looking for league football to see if he progressing enough. Why is Carlton Morris still l the books is a bigger question? 

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3 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

I must have missed your tenure as England goalkeeping coach . Perhaps accept that the people in charge know what they’re doing?

 

tl;dr leave it

You are Glenn Roeder and I claim my prize. 

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Mr. Bailey seems to be saying (rightly so, to be fair) that the starting spot will be Kruls to lose. So there is the possibility* where we don't actually see Fahrmann in the league this season.

 

*note I'm saying possibility, before I get attacked for suggesting Krul will maybe do pretty well this season.

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Posted (edited)

 one last note on him before it becomes official and our own press get more details/are allowed to delve deeper in this. Apparently we are taking on all of his wages.

Tweet originates from a German reporter for a fairly big sports/news site. I've seen his wages range from £30k/week-£60k/week.

And although the report seems as trustworthy as can get at this stage - I simply just cant believe the board would spend anything like £45-60k/week on one players wages this season, albeit a one season loan.

Edited by Redders Right Foot
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1 minute ago, Redders Right Foot said:

 one last note on him before it becomes official and our own press get more details/are allowed to delve deeper in this. Apparently we are taking on all of his wages.

Tweet originates from a German reporter for a fairly big sports/news site. I've seen his wages range from £30k/week-£60k/week.

And although the report seems as trustworthy as can get at this stage - I simply just cant believe the board would spend anything like £45-60k/week on one players wages at this stage, albeit a one season loan.

At some point we have to accept that that is the norm for the Premier League- spending it on a loan is probably better for us as we aren't tied into it past this season if we go down.

I think it is also pretty clear if we're paying that much that he isn't playing backup for Tim Krul.

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30 minutes ago, king canary said:

At some point we have to accept that that is the norm for the Premier League- spending it on a loan is probably better for us as we aren't tied into it past this season if we go down.

I think it is also pretty clear if we're paying that much that he isn't playing backup for Tim Krul.

Absolutely. That's at least £5m for the season when you factor in the wages... we simply wouldn't be doing that for a backup goalkeeper.

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12 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Absolutely. That's at least £5m for the season when you factor in the wages... we simply wouldn't be doing that for a backup goalkeeper.

The phrase "back up" is misleading.  The whole idea of what the club are doing is to develop a squad in which any player is considered equal to any other.  Who will get the starting place as goalkeeper or any other position is not decided yet - it will be decided in training and pre-season, with (imo) Krul having the edge to start with. 

So whoever is picked in whatever position, will only stay in the team if we do well. In the gk's case, it will rest on performances and results, just like any other.  Whichever gk is given the nod at the start of the season, will have to perform well because of the competition for his place.  Fährmann will not be a back up to Krul and Krul will not be a back up for Fährmann. 

We had a settled team selection last season because we did so well but with the likelihood of some difficult results in this coming season, I would expect to see a much more varied approach to team selection as the season progresses....unless we get a win or a draw every week like we did most of last season.....

Krul or Fahrmann??  It is up to them and how they perform on the pitch.  We do not do "back ups".

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1 minute ago, lake district canary said:

The phrase "back up" is misleading.  The whole idea of what the club are doing is to develop a squad in which any player is considered equal to any other.  Who will get the starting place as goalkeeper or any other position is not decided yet - it will be decided in training and pre-season, with (imo) Krul having the edge to start with. 

So whoever is picked in whatever position, will only stay in the team if we do well. In the gk's case, it will rest on performances and results, just like any other.  Whichever gk is given the nod at the start of the season, will have to perform well because of the competition for his place.  Fährmann will not be a back up to Krul and Krul will not be a back up for Fährmann. 

We had a settled team selection last season because we did so well but with the likelihood of some difficult results in this coming season, I would expect to see a much more varied approach to team selection as the season progresses....unless we get a win or a draw every week like we did most of last season.....

Krul or Fahrmann??  It is up to them and how they perform on the pitch.  We do not do "back ups".

Ooh, a Lakey lecture to start the day! 🙂

I still maintain that an experienced Bundesliga keeper would not come without an expectation of being first choice. I'm sure there would have been other clubs interested in him who would make him first choice, so why would he choose to come here without that guarantee? I'm not saying he'd be undroppable, but I'd imagine that unless he starts farting the ball into his own net on a regular basis, the shirt will be his to lose.

Anyway, only time will tell, so roll on August 9th!

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I would agree with Lakey on this. DF showed last season that people kept their places on merit rather than past performances or reputation. You get into the team and play well and you can be confident of staying there. So long as you keep up the high standards. So the two keepers will battle it out fair and square with no decision made at this stage.

Also £5m isn't that huge an amount to pay for a top keeper at premiership standard. Southampton paid £12m(?) for Angus Gunn and he sat on the bench for some time before getting his chance.

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28 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Absolutely. That's at least £5m for the season when you factor in the wages... we simply wouldn't be doing that for a backup goalkeeper.

Is it that much? Well I guess we can never say. But based on £30k a week that would be £1.5m. (plus, let's say, another £250,000 for NI bringing it to £1.75m). Obviously if we were stumping up £60k a week that would £3m. (plus another £400,000).

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5 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:

I would agree with Lakey on this. DF showed last season that people kept their places on merit rather than past performances or reputation. You get into the team and play well and you can be confident of staying there. So long as you keep up the high standards. So the two keepers will battle it out fair and square with no decision made at this stage.

Also £5m isn't that huge an amount to pay for a top keeper at premiership standard. Southampton paid £12m(?) for Angus Gunn and he sat on the bench for some time before getting his chance.

It is quite a bit for a loan though.

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8 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Ooh, a Lakey lecture to start the day! 🙂

I still maintain that an experienced Bundesliga keeper would not come without an expectation of being first choice. I'm sure there would have been other clubs interested in him who would make him first choice, so why would he choose to come here without that guarantee? I'm not saying he'd be undroppable, but I'd imagine that unless he starts farting the ball into his own net on a regular basis, the shirt will be his to lose.

Anyway, only time will tell, so roll on August 9th!

I think the situation will be that they will compete but the positions will be Farhmann's to lose. Last season we gave Remi Matthews that chance and he blew it in preseason.

One of the benefits of the Head Coach/Sporting Director model though is that Farke isn't just going to keep picking players because he spent x million quid on them as that doesn't sit with him. So if he turns out to not be good enough I'm sure he'll be out pretty sharpish.

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1 minute ago, Grando said:

Is it that much? Well I guess we can never say. But based on £30k a week that would be £1.5m. (plus, let's say, another £250,000 for NI bringing it to £1.75m). Obviously if we were stumping up £60k a week that would £3m. (plus another £400,000).

Your calculations are correct. At least £4.5m, then. Even so, that would be a disproportionately large amount of our transfer budget to put into a backup/rotation keeper. I think Farke knows that we need a keeper who is more comfortable on the ball - compare Tim to Angus from the season before, and there's no contest in that department. A technically proficient goalkeeper who can confidently start play from the back is a necessity for our style of play - even more so with the new roles that allow goal kicks to be taken short within the area.

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1 hour ago, Redders Right Foot said:

 one last note on him before it becomes official and our own press get more details/are allowed to delve deeper in this. Apparently we are taking on all of his wages.

Tweet originates from a German reporter for a fairly big sports/news site. I've seen his wages range from £30k/week-£60k/week.

And although the report seems as trustworthy as can get at this stage - I simply just cant believe the board would spend anything like £45-60k/week on one players wages this season, albeit a one season loan.

Why not. We have to start thinking like a premier league club again and £40k a week is not ridiculous at that level. In fact its probably quite low for a senior pro. If you believe the fairly plausible rumours Klose, Naismith etc were on more than that when we were up last time. The problem with them was not sustaining those wages in the premier league but the fact that they apparently continued to apply when we went down and they had another 3 years on their contracts. If this is a one season loan you don't have that risk if we go down so I can quite easily see the board agreeing to cover £40k a week for one season for the right player.

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2 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Your calculations are correct. At least £4.5m, then. Even so, that would be a disproportionately large amount of our transfer budget to put into a backup/rotation keeper. I think Farke knows that we need a keeper who is more comfortable on the ball - compare Tim to Angus from the season before, and there's no contest in that department. A technically proficient goalkeeper who can confidently start play from the back is a necessity for our style of play - even more so with the new roles that allow goal kicks to be taken short within the area.

I think that if we really are covering this kind of wage AND paying a 3m. euro loan fee then you're probably right. And if Fährmann starts the season then we probably are. If he doesn't though, then I'd be suspicious of those figures... (In fact I'm suspicious of all wage figures that seem to get chucked around with such impunity...)

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I agree with Lakey.

The cost of the loan is unlikely to have any bearing on whether he plays - we've simply strengthened in that position. Farke demonstrated with Oliveira and Rhodes - both expensive assets last season - that their relative cost didn't correlate to playing time.

That said, I suspect Fährmann may well start ahead of Krul, but simply because he's probably the better keeper from what I've seen of both. Either way, this should keep Tim on his toes - which should definitely help with his shot-stopping!

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1 minute ago, Fuzzar said:

I agree with Lakey.

The cost of the loan is unlikely to have any bearing on whether he plays - we've simply strengthened in that position. Farke demonstrated with Oliveira and Rhodes - both expensive assets last season - that their relative cost didn't correlate to playing time.

That said, I suspect Fährmann may well start ahead of Krul, but simply because he's probably the better keeper from what I've seen of both. Either way, this should keep Tim on his toes - which should definitely help with his shot-stopping!

Good point about Rhodes. However, Pukki was new to the team and I don't think anyone could have predicted quite the impact he would make. I reckon Farke and Webber have looked back at Tim's season and decided he's not consistent enough, or good enough with his feet, to start for us regularly in the PL. Anyway, time will tell!

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Not sure what people are moaning about. You have to pay for quality regardless.  This was one of the main areas we needed strengthening. Now we have a top quality keeper, fighting for the no.1 jersey and real competition for Krul. Now onto next targets.

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€3m seems pretty steep for the loan fee. Top class players like James Rodriguez and Douglas Costa have both moved on loan in the last couple of years for €6.5m and €6m a season respectively and you would've thought that their market valuations are considerably more than double than that of Fährmann.

Such is the cost of this loan deal, I'd imagine that Fährmann would at least start the season as the number one. Whether he does enough to keep it remains to be seen.

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26 minutes ago, king canary said:

It is quite a bit for a loan though.

If the figures are accurate (which I doubt), firstly we don't know if this may have been negotiated with a view to a permanent deal. Secondly, having strength in depth in all positions (especially goal keeper) could well be the difference between relegation and staying in the division. If you factor in the huge increase in prize money next season, and parachute payments in the event we do get relegated after a few years in the Prem, it doesn't seem unreasonable.

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There are an awful lot of assumptions in this rumour/transfer/thread. 

We are taking the details from a news reporter in Germany who probably made up the numbers. 

It always amazes me how many people know confidential information like salary and commercial deals 🤔

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People need to remember, this is a Champions League pedigree signing. I'm unsure of the loan fee agreed for Rhodes, but I imagine this is probably double that amount and is fair. He is someone who can vastly improve our current XI providing he staying injury free.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

There are an awful lot of assumptions in this rumour/transfer/thread. 

We are taking the details from a news reporter in Germany who probably made up the numbers. 

It always amazes me how many people know confidential information like salary and commercial deals 🤔

Agreed.

 

It was not as if he had to be prised away from Schalke.

They had already acquired an expensive replacement after all.

Edited by BroadstairsR

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Posted (edited)

A number of key strategic on-field positions have been ‘undervalued’ in terms of transfer fees in relation to other positions. 

I would suggest that these include Goalkeeper, holding midfielder and - until recently - the very high value and relatively low cost of passing centre backs. 

Liability is rather more important than initial cost when you are a Premier League team, so this is a superb deal. Premier quality with no liability upon relegation. It is the liabilities in the Championship that really hurt you, not what you pay while you are Premier

Parma

Edited by Parma Ham's gone mouldy
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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

There are an awful lot of assumptions in this rumour/transfer/thread. 

We are taking the details from a news reporter in Germany who probably made up the numbers. 

It always amazes me how many people know confidential information like salary and commercial deals 🤔

I believe @Bethnal Yellow and Green said that he knew Schalke were one of the highest-paying teams in the Bundesliga, and seeing as Fahrmann was their captain he thought he'd be on a fair old whack. It has been confirmed that we're paying all his wages as well as a 3m loan fee by Schalke's official account, so I think it's fair to assume he's on a minimum of £30k p/w.

EDIT: No it hasn't. Ignore me, I'm being a doofus.

Edited by Feedthewolf

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11 minutes ago, Ian said:

If the figures are accurate (which I doubt), firstly we don't know if this may have been negotiated with a view to a permanent deal. Secondly, having strength in depth in all positions (especially goal keeper) could well be the difference between relegation and staying in the division. If you factor in the huge increase in prize money next season, and parachute payments in the event we do get relegated after a few years in the Prem, it doesn't seem unreasonable.

I've not said I think it is unreasonable- if he's a starting level Premier League keeper then it is more than reasonable.

I just don't think we're shelling out that sort of cash for someone to warm the bench.

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2 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

It has been confirmed that we're paying all his wages as well as a 3m loan fee by Schalke's official account

Has it?

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If this tweet is true, it could indicate SW's thinking behind the evolution of the squad on the brink of the PL season. In some ways it would be similar to the Rhodes loan deal, which also didn't include a buy option, as that couldn't be agreed. It's an expensive deal, but it has to be put in the context of this season's PL money. 

As Parma says, if we stay up, it's money well spent. If we don't, then we're not stuck with an expensive player who doesn't want to play in the Championship and is then sent out on RvW style loss making loans. To buy a GK at Fahrmann's level would be hugely expensive and we don't have the budget for that this season. If we do stay up and Fahrmann wants to stay, then we could afford to buy him or another keeper of similar quality. As it is, it will take a large proportion of the budget available to pay the fee and wages, but there would still be enough money left for any business we have yet to do. In that light, it makes sense.

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He’s clearly being brought in to be number one if the figures are even close to correct.

Now it might turn out Farke chooses Krul over him based on what he sees over Pre-season, and I imagine the PR talk will be about competition.

In reality though it’s hard to imagine the shirt is anything but Fahrmanns to lose if he signs.

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