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Michael Starr

Ralf Fahrmann Medical

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Yesterday morning on Elm Hill I saw and heard a tall German man with his wife and two kids walking along using their mobiles to facetime or film. I've since wondered whether it might have been Fahrmann looking around the City.?

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3 minutes ago, Ramrod said:

Yesterday morning on Elm Hill I saw and heard a tall German man with his wife and two kids walking along using their mobiles to facetime or film. I've since wondered whether it might have been Fahrmann looking around the City.?

If it's not Dunston Hall or ASDA, it doesn't count. :classic_tongue:

  • Haha 2

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Perfick.

A loan will give Oxborough time to prove whether he is worth his salt and should Krul falter or get injured then he seems like an appropriate fit.

We'll still have TK in the Chumps should we fall by the wayside.

I cannot make sense of the McGovern situation, although I do not view him as anywhere near the bad an option as seems to be the general consensus. But why? He's clearly not considered up to the present challenge and you can only have so many good influences in the squad and he's also a decent 'keeper who could easily find a role in the Chumps .....with an added little fee in our coffers.

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McGov wants to be here and Farke and Webber clearly rate him. 3rd choice keeper rarely plays but he's clearly a good influence around the place. Somebody else on here mentioned coaching too, he could be getting that experience too.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

McGov wants to be here and Farke and Webber clearly rate him. 3rd choice keeper rarely plays but he's clearly a good influence around the place. Somebody else on here mentioned coaching too, he could be getting that experience too.

 

 

Yes I believe he’ll move more to coaching the youngsters, wouldn’t be surprised if he’ll not even make the bench this season.

Edited by Indy

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Premier League third keepers can be older, more experienced players like Green, Wright, Manninger, Schwarzer, Worm etc. Their experience in and around the dressing room is invaluable plus them playing on the very odd occasion is preferable to throwing a young lad into the toughest league in the world. Makes perfect sense keeping McGovern here. 

 

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So it's become a specialist role then?

Quite an expensive luxury for a newly promoted side without much financial clout it would seem.

On the very off chance that McGovern is possibly needed then I would instead be inclined throw young Oxborough to the fore as he's either it or not  .... as Lambert (sh) did with Declan Rudd I seem to recall. 

Rudd didn't really let us down in a scenario of small margins even though R. De Laet did his best to thwart the youngster.

Edited by BroadstairsR

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But Oxborough’s place in the U23’s is being filled by the new Scottish keeper isn’t it? If so, it then makes sense to loan him out to L1 or Champs team to prove his capabilities under pressure. 

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I guess that's the issue with Oxborough - he needs to be playing to progress, so we loan him out & can't rely on him as 3rd choice keeper.

 

Also it was a really high-risk strategy for Lambert, as we saw all those years ago when Bryan Gunn was injured and it essentially cost us relegation.  I think this approach makes sense, we pay a one-year loan fee to get in some quality competition for the starting position.  If we go back down, we're back to Krul backed up by McGovern.

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"But Oxborough’s place in the U23’s is being filled by the new Scottish keeper isn’t it? If so, it then makes sense to loan him out to L1 or Champs team to prove his capabilities under pressure." 

 

Fair enough. If it happens then it all makes more sense.

The question still arises is McGovern employed as a goalkeeper, a coach or as a good character to have in the dressing room?.

The chances of him having to play in the PL are remote. The chances of him having to play and influencing the result are even more remote.

 

But! You never know and I neither dispute Webber's decision making nor McGovern's capabilities as a 'keeper.

I am just a bit confused as so much of the talk thus far has been about cutting unnecessary expenditure. 

 

 

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A goalkeeper is a specialised position. It isn't like an outfield player where you can just stick a round peg in a square hole for a couple of games (Godfrey at full back over Christmas last year, for example) and hope for the best. It's also very highly pressurised and throwing a youngster in is a big risk, and an experienced head like McGovern is generally better than someone with no experience like Oxborough. 

This is why most teams will have two good options and an experienced, cheap McGovern/Nash type for third choice. Stuart Taylor made an entire career out of being a third choice keeper who never played, and in the past few years we've seen Andy Marshall and Richard Wright at Man City, Rob Green at Chelsea and Lee Grant at Man Utd fill these roles.

It also allows young players like Oxborough who have maybe outgrown youth football to go out on loan and get some proper experience. 

So sign Fährmann, loan out Oxborough, and we're all set.

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"Andy Marshall and Richard Wright at Man City, Rob Green at Chelsea and Lee Grant at Man Utd fill these roles."

 

Interesting that the examples you quote are from three of the wealthiest and biggest spenders in the history of the Premier League.

We are not in that category.

Whether or not the cost of McGovern will be justified (new contracts do not come cheap,) will be realised no doubt.

The general consensus seems to be that McGovern is not PL material, and neither is Oxborough ready.

 

Let's hope we never have to find out, but it's small margins and big outlay and an even bigger IF.

The accomplished tightrope walker that Webber has become seems to need an expensive safety net.

Edited by BroadstairsR

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We don’t know the ins and outs of McGoverns contract though. I wouldn’t mind betting he accepted a lower salary for the 3 year contract he got at his age.

I actually can’t believe people are questioning this at all, it seems to make perfect sense to me.

Two top quality keeps battling it out for the starting jersey. An experienced and more than competent third choice back up and a chance to get your up and coming keeper some first team experience. There is nothing to question about the keeper situation now for me.

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24 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

"Andy Marshall and Richard Wright at Man City, Rob Green at Chelsea and Lee Grant at Man Utd fill these roles."

 

Interesting that the examples you quote are from three of the wealthiest and biggest spenders in the history of the Premier League.

We are not in that category.

Whether or not the cost of McGovern will be justified (new contracts do not come cheap,) will be realised no doubt.

The general consensus seems to be that McGovern is not PL material, and neither is Oxborough ready.

 

Let's hope we never have to find out, but it's small margins and big outlay and an even bigger IF.

The accomplished tightrope walker that Webber has become seems to need an expensive safety net.

If McGovern and Oxborough aren't viable options, then what's the alternative if, God forbid, both Krul and Fährmann are unavailable? Either we use Grant Hanley as a makeshift keeper or we need to spend even more money on a third senior, frontline keeper when you're already complaining about McGovern taking up a wage.

And I used Wright, Marshall, Green and Grant as examples as they're the most obvious and famous, but in order to make a fairer comparison then I'll use last season's bottom six then instead:

Burnley had Hart, Heaton and Pope.

Southampton had Gunn, McCarthy and Forster.

Brighton had Ryan, Button and Steele.

Cardiff had just Etheridge and Smithies.

Fulham had Bettinelli, Sergio Rico and Fabri.

Huddersfield had Lössl, Hamer and Coleman.

So, by my reckoning, Burnley, Southampton and Fulham all had three senior keepers who'd all earn a good first team wage. Brighton and Huddersfield basically had a clear number one and a couple of backups who were probably both on less than Krul but more than McGovern- two 'number two and a halves'. Cardiff by the looks of it gambled without a third choice but their number one stayed fit all year.

So what we're doing is completely fine: two good keepers and a cheap number three.

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"If McGovern and Oxborough aren't viable options .... "

I wouldn't know whether they are viable or not just repeating the general consensus of this forum.

The fact remains that Oxborough is now twenty one and has been on the books since the age of twelve.

 

Either there's a 'keeper in there or not? If there is then why in, a finance conscious situation, do we retain an elder player who we have come to the conclusion is not good enough, albeit even for an unlikely call up?

As I said, I trust the judgement involved, but it puzzles me. There may be other factors.

A costly safety valve and a rebuke to a youngster that we have retained since a small kid.

"So what we're doing is completely fine: two good keepers and a cheap number three."

With an even cheaper number three who has been at the club for nine years available for a miniscule role.

 

Perhaps it is therefore best that Aston is loaned out, but where does it end? I thought that we were now in the habit of promoting youngsters as much as is expedient.

Edited by BroadstairsR

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5 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

The fact remains that Oxborough is now twenty one and has been on the books since the age of twelve.

Either there's a 'keeper in there or not? If there is then why in, a finance conscious situation, do we retain an elder player who we have come to the conclusion is not good enough, albeit even for an unlikely call up?

As I said, I trust the judgement involved, but it puzzles me. There may be other factors.

A costly safety valve and a rebuke to a youngster that we have retained since a small kid.

But he has never played senior football. Unless you have a freak of nature who you can throw straight in as a teenager, then they need to have a loan spell to get some experience. Keepers peak a lot later than outfield players too so there's no reason why Oxborough can't go out on loan this season and then maybe be a part of the squad in a year or two. But it does seem strange that he's 21 and hasn't been loaned out yet, but I trust the club's judgement on this. Maybe he'll be a later bloomer.

As for McGovern being a costly safety valve, I doubt he's that costly. And if he's chipping in with coaching the academy players then he's earning part of his wage that way.

Edited by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

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But having Oxborough as third choice isn’t promoting him - it is hindering his progress. 

It is worth noting that Oxborough wasn’t actually the U23 keeper of choice last season - that was McCraken. Oxborough was put onto the bench as he was homegrown - I’m not sure whether he was third choice or not . It appears McCracken is leaving this summer and Mair has been brought in to replace him. 

Third choice keeper will never play, but clubs still feel they need one ‘just in case’. If Norwich has let McGovern go, then they would just have needed to bring someone in to take his place. Having a youngster there is just stopping them going somewhere on loan to get experience. 

 

Edited by Bethnal Yellow and Green

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"Having a youngster there is just stopping them going somewhere on loan to get experience."

We know that but it hasn't and doesn't seem to be happening with Oxborough.

It's not the easiest thing arranging these deals, but McGovern's contract and our search for another 'keeper have been known for a long time.

The much respected Angus Gunn was just twenty one when he came to City. Admittedly on loan, but soon to be a high cost PL 'keeper. 

Edited by BroadstairsR

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I must have missed your tenure as England goalkeeping coach . Perhaps accept that the people in charge know what they’re doing?

 

tl;dr leave it

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7 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

I must have missed your tenure as England goalkeeping coach . Perhaps accept that the people in charge know what they’re doing?

 

tl;dr leave it

I didn't say that the people in charge did not know what they were doing. It's accepted.

I'm just slightly confused by the situation and interested to see how it pans out.

 

Perhaps it's because I was never an England goalkeeping coach.

Edited by BroadstairsR

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54 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

But having Oxborough as third choice isn’t promoting him - it is hindering his progress. 

Spot on.

 

Giving McGovern a new contract and sending Aston out on loan makes perfect sense and that's it. Nothing further to be said on the matter.

 

Has to be said though, a few people I know have played alongside and against Aston over the past 3/4 years, and he doesn't seem to have the best reputation among them. Most are surprised he's still on our books (although admittedly a lot can change in 3/4 years at that age). Also interesting to note that McCracken was often 1st choice for the U23's. However, for Aston to still be here he must be rated by the coaching team, so I guess we'll see.

Edited by Hoolahoop14

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