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ncfc0405

When Doherty was pants

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Enough already with dissing Etuhu. Give the guy a chance. Remember when Doherty was hopeless? Like from when he joined the club till about this September? Now he''s putting in great performances week in week out. The guy''s found his form and his confidence (and his position). I think there''s more to come from Dicko...

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I also seem to recall Etuhu''s name cropping up in almost every thread back in the summer as a must sign player. Probably by the same people who are now citing him as the worst Norwich player ever. And all after just three or four full matches.

Some people really are completely unrealistic on this board - very rare does a player fit in to a side instantly - just look at Safri. He had a ''mare during his first few games here and now he''s our most valuable asset next to Deano.

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[quote user="BedsCanary"]Probably by the same people who are now citing him as the worst Norwich player ever. And all after just three or four full matches.[/quote]One of which I saw first hand, his debut. Looked half-decent to me, made some good positive runs and came pretty close to scoring at least twice if I remember correctly and we won the match, so he must have done something right.Writing off a player after a handful of matches in a side which was struggling to put it mildly until recently is so narrow-minded and short sighted as to be laughable and is the main reason I rarely respond to such ill-informed ignorant nonsense.I''m sure the same applies to you and many other posters who know the first thing about football.http://new.pinkun.com/content/NCFC/Stats/2005-2006/matches/051119Luton.aspxOh look, my memory didn''t desert me, Etuhu did indeed have a decent debut. I was there. I saw it. I wonder how many of those slagging him off can say the same. No disrespect to those that do attend and don''t rate him, but I feel theres a lot of armchair supporters flicking their remote over to "The Bandwagon Channel" (Freeview 102, Sky 57)  ;)

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i have slagged him of but only because he has looked lazy and unmotivated during his 8 games, as i have stated before he was part of 4 midfield no shows in his 6 starts for us.

I hope he comes good, but he comes with the exact reputation of the above (plays a handful of good games a season).  And was generally disliked by preston fans before he even arrived on loan.

I thought he would be a good signing till i saw him play.  and herb if you are calling his performance against luton ''good'' well i still renmember leaving the match surprised that etuhu had not done much.  but thinking it was only his first game.

I get the impression a lot of people aree impressed by his first appearance - his look: a big strong black central midfielder in the viera mould, the kind of athlete that can take a game by the scruff of the neck and run it.

Preston have not seen this nor have we yet.

PROVE US ALL WRONG  ETUHU!

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Doc is now playing in a lower Division than when he joined , do you not think that may be why he looks a better player now . I am sure all this seasons signings would look better players if they joined clubs in League One or Two .

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When Doherty made his debut, there was no lack of effort from the big man. His form has really improved but his commitment level is the same. What upset supporters about Etuhu was a lack of effort - when the ball came near him he often went missing, didn''t challenge, didn''t work hard.  Now I''m not sure why that was.  Is he lazy, was he still suffering from his virus, not fit and trying to pace himself, unmotivated?  Time will tell although it is worrying that some Preston fans say they thought he didn''t work hard enough for them.  A good manager will make sure he is fully committed and involved in which case he can be an asset.  Over to you, Nigel!

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Can we say the same about hughes and jarrett then? Yes we can. The difference compared to Etuhu is that Hughes (and Jarrett when I saw him) tried hard, just as Doherty always tried, even when he was playing as a striker.

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Doherty played next to Fleming, behind Holt and "I''m off for a cuppa" Francis, with Huckerby "helping" Drury on the left, and Marcus "Where''d that left winger go?" Edworthy on the right.

He came in with an undeserved reputation of being a laughing stock, he was overweight and totally not match-fit. He arrived to a blaze of dislike from the Norwich faithful and went straight into the side in a position he doesn''t naturally play, completing what will go down in premiership history as one of the worst sides ever.

I agree with the sentiment of the point, but Doherty was never pants. He was just played when he wasn''t fit and his confidence was shot to pieces.

And by slating others in the same way (Hughes, Jarret, Etuhu etc etc) we will only cause the same lack of confidence to grow in other players.

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MOOK:

Hughes has had 23 games to show how good he is and has shown exactly the level of football he plays at.

Jarrett will get a proper chance now with all the injuries.

Etuhu has had 8 lazy appearances for the club, hopefully he will start to give a monkeys now he is officially an ncfc player.

And your slating of Edworthy really is a joke considering the performances of this years Right Backs, I find it insulting that you mark him out after the exemplary performances he put in during our promotion season - so he wasnt quite premiership - nor was most of our squad.

Stop looking thru rose tinted specs buddy we are still 12th

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Doherty was never that bad. Mook makes some valid points. This season, after the team once again no-showed against Leeds, Doherty, on as a late, late sub, ran to retrieve the ball to get the game restarted quickly, another ball was thrown on behind him and he took dogs abuse because he didnt see it or the twit that threw it on. He put more commitment into that run down the touchline than many of the squad have displayed all season. Im pleased he is bucking the trend and performing well. He''s the high point of the season.  

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Paul,

Whilst your reservations regarding Etuhu seem fair enough, when you keep quoting stuff off of the PNE fan''s board, I think it is worth remembering that they were all baying for his blood after the tackle which broke their player''s leg. What would a Wigan fan have thought of Francis if they had been reading this board in the months leading up to his transfer (ie exactly the same), and they seem more than happy with him now. Anyway, I''m not saying you''re wrong, but just that it is probably better to see if he does manage to come good because destroying his confidence at this stage can only be harmful for the club. I think that in his correct position and with a bit more time to settle, we may have a good player on our hands. I may be wrong but lets see.  

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You won''t find rose-tinted glasses anywhere near me, dude.

I certainly don''t believe that Hughes is the answer to our midfield problems, but I also know what crowd unrest can do for a players'' confidence. I was merely using Doherty as an example of how low confidence can affect your game. Hughes is a breaker, and every team needs one. It''s just that we have about six of them.

Etuhu is at the bottom of a low right now, and will definitely pick up given some good coaching (oh dear) and some encouragement. Jarret too, I''m sure.

Re Edworthy, I wasn''t slating him, but just using him (and a few other players if you re-read) to highlight the reasons why, I believe, Doc made a slow start. Eddy is just another example of poor management in my book. He was completely out of his depth in the prem, yet was played 30-odd times. Then when we''re back in the Chumpionship and need him most, he''s shipped off without so much as a by your leave. Bizarre. And I also "slated" Fleming (Player of the season in Promotion year), Holt (my favourite gut-buster ever to pull on the yellow and green) and Huckerby (legend). So exemplary performances or not, it didn''t mean Eddy was any good in the premiership.

By the way, about a year ago everyone was campaigning for the legend that is Jim Brennan to be introduced into the starting 11.

Just proves that the fans sometimes have their heads up their rears, doesn''t it?

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[quote user="Mook"]

You won''t find rose-tinted glasses anywhere near me, dude.

I certainly don''t believe that Hughes is the answer to our midfield problems, but I also know what crowd unrest can do for a players'' confidence. I was merely using Doherty as an example of how low confidence can affect your game. Hughes is a breaker, and every team needs one. It''s just that we have about six of them.

Etuhu is at the bottom of a low right now, and will definitely pick up given some good coaching (oh dear) and some encouragement. Jarret too, I''m sure.

Re Edworthy, I wasn''t slating him, but just using him (and a few other players if you re-read) to highlight the reasons why, I believe, Doc made a slow start. Eddy is just another example of poor management in my book. He was completely out of his depth in the prem, yet was played 30-odd times. Then when we''re back in the Chumpionship and need him most, he''s shipped off without so much as a by your leave. Bizarre. And I also "slated" Fleming (Player of the season in Promotion year), Holt (my favourite gut-buster ever to pull on the yellow and green) and Huckerby (legend). So exemplary performances or not, it didn''t mean Eddy was any good in the premiership.

By the way, about a year ago everyone was campaigning for the legend that is Jim Brennan to be introduced into the starting 11.

Just proves that the fans sometimes have their heads up their rears, doesn''t it?

[/quote]

I agree with everything that you have said and am happy to say it was not me calling for Jim Brenna to be in the team at any point- he always looked 2nd rate and never had a good game, even in his preffered left back slot (i think really he is a wing back) .  He needs to leave the club now for his own good.

Hopefully Jarrett has come back an improved player - altho i fear Worthy has already marked his card and he will be dropped and sold at the first opportunity. 

Also I will support all the NCFC players when they are on the park - unless they are truly awful (and i mean derveld bad). I just havent seen anything from Etuhu even effort wise - hopefully he will read this board and pull his finger out.  I am hoping to be proven completely wrong. 

My other problem is that in reality if robinson is fit our best central midfield is him and safri.  Leaving Etuhu and Hughes oon the bench (assumingf worthy still doesnt no what a right midfielder is...  1 million on bench warmers)

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I can''t beleive people think that Doc was pants.  I thought he was good from day one, okay he made the odd bumbling mistake which sometimes resulted in a goal or corner, but Flem was doing that all season long.   Flem is also a master of removing responsability from himself and leaving himself free whilst his partner has to do all the hard work.   Since being dropped and then coming back again he hasn''t been doing that so much, as he obviously now respects Doc a lot more.   I used to watch him shouting and pointing where he wanted Doc to be and the poor guys was constantly on edge trying to watch the game and listen to Flems orders.   Nowadays Doc is more relaxed with his own ability and Flem respects that and is defintely not on his back all the time.   They have developed an understanding partnership which is the most important partnership on the entire pitch the two centre backs, build from the back.

Also all Mooks points about Doc are spot on, he had a hell of a lot of pressure without Flem barking at him all the time.

Jarrett to me has also shown signs of being under pressure.  He has looked shaky and rushed when he has played, but you can still see he has some natural ability.   The last game he played for us he was awful in the first half, his first touch was letting him down all match long, but in the second he started to play better and better and it was clear his confidence was growing all the time.  Next thing you know he has been shipped off on loan and we have a midfield injury crisis - another example of fine management.   I would still prefer to play Jarrett ahead of a left back or centre back, but Nigel clearly wouldn''t.   Don''t forget the boy is young and had missed a huge chunk of last season through quite a serious injury, it was obvious he would take some time to get his confidence back especially joining a new team with such high expectations of automatic promotion.  Perhaps this is why Nigel farmed him out on loan, to get him some match experience and confidence back where it wouldn''t hurt us when he makes mistakes, but then the injuries hit, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

In conclusion I think Jarrett will return a different player, especially after a half decent run in the team.

Etuhu, also I think needs a decent amount of time to settle, has he played with the same 3 midfielders twice in a row yet?  I don''t think he has.   He did look slow and easily jolted off the ball last Saturday, but I think he can only get better with time and deserves some respect until he has had the chance to prove himself.

Hughes, I also think is a good player and the only player that was brought in at the start of the season that was actually better than the player he replaced - Holt.    Don''t forget that was why we brought him in to replace Holt.   Jarret was supposed to be the new Francis and we had Safri too.  He has all the lungs Holt did and actually does have some, I said some, natural ability with passes and movement.    Holt used to just sit on defenders toes when defending and run about a lot when attacking - don''t get me wrong he was awesome in the champ, but way out of depth in prem.   Hughes was playing better than Holt IMO and once we get a proper midfield fit again will be a useful player alongside the type of player like Safri.

People have also brought up Eddy and how many games he played in the Prem - Helveg was dropped after two below par performances and then bench warmed for months whilst Eddy bless him tried his best, but wasn''t the best.   Helveg made a return in midfield, right when Nigel had realised Holt was not being effective and finally replaced him with another bench warmer Safri and both these arrivals conicided with an upturn in our fortunes.  If only Nigel saw things that much quicker.   Anyway the resulting departure of an unhappy Helveg, which was to be expected as he never had the chance to prove himself either, was then followed with Nigel letting Eddy go as well, a player that has rightly been touted as a great Champ player  -doh!!!    Again the replacements of Colin and Louis-Jean are no better than the departures.  Although I think Colin is okay, but looks a little confused somtimes.

Anyway, the point is with every single player mentioned above - Safri, Hughes, Helveg, Etuhu and Jarrett, they have all suffered with not being given proper runs in their proper positions at the start of their careers with Norwich.  Thank God Safri stuck around to prove a point and lets hope the others do too.   Whilst on the subject, shame Jonson was farmed off when he wanted to stay too.  I know he never showed anything apart from hard work, but I would rather have him on the right of midfield right now than Etuhu who should be in the middle of a proper 4-4-2. 

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i wanted the doc and shacks to play together during the final matches of last year - but most people laughed at the docs name and still thought the sun shone from flems darkest space.can you imagine,  the doc marking  crouch and  shacks on phillps& camara  versus  southampton last season.   would have made more sense than shacks on crouch and flekm on phillips.dicko will be a good player for city in his favoured position - as good as francis (when he wasn''t playing pants) hopefully.

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[quote user="StevenageFan"]

Hughes, I also think is a good player and the only player that was brought in at the start of the season that was actually better than the player he replaced - Holt.    Don''t forget that was why we brought him in to replace Holt.   Jarret was supposed to be the new Francis and we had Safri too.  He has all the lungs Holt did and actually does have some, I said some, natural ability with passes and movement.    Holt used to just sit on defenders toes when defending and run about a lot when attacking - don''t get me wrong he was awesome in the champ, but way out of depth in prem.   Hughes was playing better than Holt IMO and once we get a proper midfield fit again will be a useful player alongside the type of player like Safri.....

[/quote]

Thank you Stevenage - at last someone who agrees with me that Hughes is OK, and certainly an improvement in terms of skill on Holt (who was magic for us as a destroyer). Not Viera, or Keane, but OK, and we need him at the moment. It goes without saying that I''d prefer to have Lampard or Alonso, and to play sexy football, but we just don''t have the funds. Hard for some to comprehend, but that''s the way it is - you pay for sex. In football, that is...

I also agree that Jarrett should be given a fair chance. He seemed to be trying, at least. Whereas Etuhu..... well, he has the look of another Francis, and I don''t mean that as a compliment. He goes missing at crucial moments, and doesn''t seem to be the rock you need in his position. I guess he''s young, so maybe he''ll sort it out.

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