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Mook

Leon Mckenzie = Gary Holt/Andy Hughes

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I am concerned that so many people on this site think Leon McKenzie is our second best striker, and that having him back will make us the finished article.

As far as I can see, Leon often controls a ball further than I can kick it, isn''t very good positionally (ie always offside), runs around like a headless chicken, can''t pass particularly well and I''ve never seen this "awesome pace" that people seem to think he has.

In fact, I would go so far as to say he is the striking equivalent of Gary Holt - a real tryer, who''s determination we do need, but when off form is utterly dreadful.

Is it just me, or does anyone else actually agree? If I had to choose, I would rather have Paul McSmall in our team any day. Although having both wouldn''t hurt I suppose, but there would be no way of getting Hucks in the same team too.

I feel I am developing a bit of an "issue" with Leon (like myself and ZLF had with Edworthy), so sorry Leon, maybe it''s just me being picky.

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leon is a gutsy trier and his hustle and bustle style can make something out of nothing, which gives him or his strike partner chances to feed off. can also hold the ball up well. am concerned however like you mook that he lacks creative control re touch and passing to set others up effectively, like hucks and wly can.I suppose leon & deano would work better against some teams while wly & deano would work better against others. 

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As I said after seeing him on Saturday the ''headless chicken'' seen at the start of the season seems to have got out of his system. He has his flaws but has been consistently good with the exception of the start of this season.

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   You could hardly have been more friendly in your comments Mook, so well done for that. No, Leon isn''t our ''2nd best striker'' as far as I''m concerned, Hendo might be if he ever got enough chances to play upfront properly (and without the instant derision from some City fans), Jarvis might be the closest to Dean if he too ever got free of injuries and/or chances too, and it''s one big plus of recent times that Squiz has both got a chance and done well, I rather like the idea of plenty of him on field from here on, he was surely the best forward we had in the not-quite-there season between Cardiff and Champions.

   As for Leon and offside, well I think that brickbat belongs much more in Hucks'' direction. Hucks has the skill beyond Leon  and he sure has the speed, and so his propensity to always get caught offside far too often is deeply irritating. I wouldn''t say Leon goes headless chickenesque in his running, his eternal and indefatigible running is a boost to the spirits at the very least - of us off the pitch and surely to the other Canaries on it? - and does reap rewards sometimes. And in this season (till last few games), his absence and unstinting effort has looked glaringly absent set against a team almost full of no guts no shows several times, certainly once we''ve conceded the obligatory early goal.

   His close control is, yes, his weakest point, and he may never get to be as good as Dean and a few others, but hell he came over well enough in some of last season''s games, not least scoring against Chelski and in the optimism-resurging win over Manchester Utd.

   A fit Leon for the rest of this season I''d say will be a vital factor, and he''ll surely pop up with a keep-running effort somewhere or other that helps just shade a game for us a time or two. Starting on Boxing Day?

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[quote user="Mook"]

I am concerned that so many people on this site think Leon McKenzie is our second best striker, and that having him back will make us the finished article.

As far as I can see, Leon often controls a ball further than I can kick it, isn''t very good positionally (ie always offside), runs around like a headless chicken, can''t pass particularly well and I''ve never seen this "awesome pace" that people seem to think he has.

In fact, I would go so far as to say he is the striking equivalent of Gary Holt - a real tryer, who''s determination we do need, but when off form is utterly dreadful.

Is it just me, or does anyone else actually agree? If I had to choose, I would rather have Paul McSmall in our team any day. Although having both wouldn''t hurt I suppose, but there would be no way of getting Hucks in the same team too.

I feel I am developing a bit of an "issue" with Leon (like myself and ZLF had with Edworthy), so sorry Leon, maybe it''s just me being picky.

[/quote]

 

I am with you on this Mook (no surprises there I guess).  Leon is all industry and like Holt he should be effective at this level chasing the stray passes from midfield and defence - go up a level and he is a bit beyond his level.

On Sat while it was good to see leon again he work had but did little - the one break he had, down the left then sutting in at pace, summed him up perfectly; worked hard to get himself into an excellent position and then fluffed the cross well behind the advancing Ashton and Etuhu.

At the mo I would be disappointed if he came in for WLY who has shown tremendous invention, retention and passing that this team needs more than Leons energy.  Having Leon availabel as an option or from the bench can only be good for us though.

One thing he does bring us that Ithink has very sorely been missed is pace - beyond hux here is none in our side and pace always causes teams headaches.

 

OTBC 

 

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He scored against the ****, he scored another one...

 

End of last season, his partnership with Ashton almost kept us up.

Disagree completely mate.

 

He''s got pace, good finisher, committed, and loves playing for the TEAM.

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Yeah, you''ve really given him time to come back from injury to judge this haven''t you?

Are you having a laugh or what?

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He was pretty poor before he was injured although that may have been for off-pitch reasons off course. I am also unconvinced with him and I think it says all about your average football fans optimism that when a player is injured for a while and the team is not doing well you tend to look for anything to pin your hopes on - I fear this is what has happened to Leon here. He is of course a great trier plus he has a bit of "attitude", it is hard to see anybody physically pushing him around (has the right "genes" obviously) and that does make him a fans favourite. Lets just hope he has a real purple patch and starts knocking some goals in.

 

Mark .Y.

 

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You have a point Mook, but I think are a bit harsh. I believe Leon does have good pace and when at full fitness and confidence like at the end of last season and the second half of prmotion he was a a real dangerman. If you look at the stats, his strike rate is actually better for us than Dean Ashton''s, and you have to remember that he played a lot of his games from the bench in 03/04.

However Dave Bassett his manager at Crystal Palace for a short time has said that Leon "doesn''t have great feet" and we do see that from time to time. But as a number 2 striker and someone who genuinely runs for 90 minutes and hounds the opposition defence when they have the ball I think he''s an asset to the team.

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Oh dear, Herb. I assume you are referring to me having not given him time to recover from his injury?

Well, to reiterate, the point I am making is that a lot of people on this board believe a fully fit Leon is the answer to our problems, and will take us up to the prem.

I am just saying that I disagree.

This is based on my opinion of his all-round game, and his performances since he has been at Norwich, not based on a few unfit minutes from Saturday''s performance.

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Well if he suffers from lack of confidence lets hope he doesnt bloody read threads like this one!!!  2 goals in 8 appearances so far and thats after allegedly a poor start.  Even at that rate he would be in double figures for the season and alongside ashton we would be getting the goals we need. I can remember too many seasons where our goals have been sprinkled amoung loads of players without a couple of prolific hit men up front.  Dont get me wrong im not saying he is Thierry Henry and im not saying kick out WLY to make way but he is VERY VERY important for the team.  Just look at how much we have been looking forward to his return and his energy and motivation.  Dont for christs sake start knocking him back after 20 minutes!!!!!

God some of you lot make me mad sometimes!

 

 

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At the end of the day you know what you get from Leon; you get a committed, 110% performance.  Now the lad might not be the best striker in the division.  But if he tries his damndest every week, that''s all I''ll ask of him.  I do think we are very short up front though and a striker is a priority in the window, even if Deano doesn''t go

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at the start of the season, he was poor. but when he''s right, and like people have mentioned, towards the end of last season, he was great with ashton. it really was a partnership. we play a lot of games, so there''s no reason why we cant see alot of mcveigh and mckenzie. they both contribute to the team, and i do think he is an asset to the club.

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"Dont for christs sake start knocking him back after 20 minutes!!!!! God some of you lot make me mad sometimes!"

Please read my posts properly before you get in a tiz. Let me make the point again - it''s not based on 20 unfit minutes after 3 months off!! I am just basing it on his basic skill level, ball control and footballing ability.

Anyway, I think everyone replying has a point, and I am (secretly) looking forward to having him back too.

Just as long as Small Paul doesn''t get dropped to make way for him.

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Leon mckenzie is a legend, and he is proven.
im surpirsed he''s still here after all the rumours about his perssonal life and now the fans are questioning his ability.
leon mckenzie scored against the scum if you forgot and he also put on a big display against a little team called manchester united.that is to name two of his great displays.
i cant believe what i am reading.
in leon and ashton we have a real partnership.
OTBC

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[quote user="DuncanMirams"]Leon mckenzie is a legend, and he is proven.
im surpirsed he''s still here after all the rumours about his perssonal life and now the fans are questioning his ability.
leon mckenzie scored against the scum if you forgot and he also put on a big display against a little team called manchester united.that is to name two of his great displays.
i cant believe what i am reading.
in leon and ashton we have a real partnership.
OTBC
[/quote]

Its the same idiots who were slagging Ashton last week!!   [:-(]

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Paul Rankin - I don''t see anyone slagging anyone here, I was merely (and perhaps stupidly as the school''s hav just broken up) attempting a grown-up discussion about footballing ability. And as far as slagging Ashton off, I have done no such thing. So get your facts straight.

And Duncan, I can remember the games he has played well for us. But i can also remember games like Liverpool at home where his lack of touch cost us possession a great many times, and when young Crow was brought on his control and first-touch completely changed the game for us.

Just because I may be suggesting something you''s don''t like, doesn''t mean I haven''t thought it through.

Once again, I will state this: it''s merely my opinion, based on his performances and my impression of his ability. If you don''t like it, you could always try intelligently arguing your point and prove me wrong rather than throwing your toys.

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disagree with some of whats been said...

we are a different team without Leon and that has been proven this season... he is fast, strong and a good finisher and also takes some of the heat off hucks and Ashton, also, with Leon in the team it encourages us to pass it around a bit more, thus alleiviating the Hoof to deano.

Im a huge McKenzie fan and am pleased he''s back... he will do the biz for us again!

jas :)

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Leon is probably the most frustrating of City players.   He finds himself in good positions so often because of his power, strength, pace and ability to turn left and right on a sixpence to waste his effort by failing to deliver a good cross, pass or shot.  He does the hard bit, for which we love him,  then the easy bit is fluffed far too often, which is where the effort over quality debate hits home true..

 

OTBC

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Like most players at NCFC, its between the ears that the prob. A confident Leon is a bonus. He learnt a lot in the prem and also from working with players like Hucks and Deano. He needs time but fans are impatient, aren''t we.

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Monk

Sorry I was not aiming those volleys at you in particular just making the point that for no good reason Leon Mckenzie is being put down, for many weeks people have been slagging off Dean Ashton when the team has been crap around him and Paul McVeigh gets it when he has not had a run of games for 2 years.

1) yes i agree earlier on in the season when he obviously was not mentally right he was rubbish - he still got a couple of goals somehow.

2) yes, he is not a 20 goal a season Premiership striker - but when partnered with Ashton did an exemplary job last season.

   people forget he did not start for about 10 matches due to NW not picking a similar formation to that which we did so well in the first division.

3) he is proven at this level and was a MAJOR factor in our promotion.  His damage from the right side along with edworthy almost made up for the fact we dont have players out there.

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in my opinion mckensie isn''t one of our top 2 strikers. He should be below Ashton, Mveigh, Huckerby, henderson and Jarvis. The youngsters need to be given chances. if there are injuries, he''s better than thorne but can be a headless chicken.

Saying simply he isn''t premiersship quality is unfair though because none of the others bar ashton are premiership quality either.

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I agree with Canary W... Ashton and Mckenzie as a partnership and individualy were on fire towards the end of last season. They gave Silvestre and R.Ferdinand all sorts of trouble when we brillantly beat ManUtd 2-0. Along with Huckerby, almost everytime we went forwards we either looked like scoring or just creating a (very) good chance. 

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[quote user="Matt Hudson"]

in my opinion mckensie isn''t one of our top 2 strikers. He should be below Ashton, Mveigh, Huckerby, henderson and Jarvis. The youngsters need to be given chances. if there are injuries, he''s better than thorne but can be a headless chicken.

Saying simply he isn''t premiersship quality is unfair though because none of the others bar ashton are premiership quality either.

[/quote]

I am sorry but you cant just put a proven goalscorer below Jarvis and henderson just like that. Mckenzies 9 goals helped us get promoted his 6 with ashton almost kept us in the premiership and if the defense had not been so shocking against the likes of Palace and saints would have (its a damn shame he got about 100 mins of football in the first 10 matches of the prem season due to NW.

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I thought McKensie had shot his bolt and this might be consistent with the fact he has flattered to deceive in his career (we rescued him from the lower leagues). But I felt I saw something in his brief comeback game and am prepared to give him more time. He does use the right flank as Huckerby uses the left and this is interesting in our team of wingless Canaries when played as a front 3. It also creates competition for places which we desperately need.

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