Membership scheme talks to be held

[city4eva 207]

Any news

[king canary 7,562]

Some tweets from Robin Sainty last night...

Will get a full report about the meeting with the Club on the website tomorrow but quick précis is that not much will change this season, although we still hope to see some improvements for families/kids, but the Club accept they messed up in consultation and hence could have perhaps produced a better scheme there will be wide consultation (ie not just fan groups) between now and finalisation of next year’s scheme in January. It was generally accepted that no scheme will satisfy everyone but that doesn’t mean that the current one is acceptable as the finished product. It can and must evolve and to do that the widest possible range of opinions must be taken into account.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Well I must say the meeting notes released by the various fans groups are very disappointing. My reading of it is:

1. The Club are sorry for not consulting but don't appear apologetic for exploiting the fans for commercial gain.

2. The message is this is what you are going to get as we are "self funding." The alternative would have been increasing the costs of season tickets (£20 on ST's would have been fairer in my view (plus £35 instead of £30 for casual fans) although I don't accept any increase is justified). Wonder when Norwich City fans will really clock that "self funding" = we foot the bill whilst increasing the value of the owners asset for them, paying to rebuild their academy for them etc. If they meant what they say about being custodians of the club for the fans they would give a large chunk of the considerable (and currently very valuable) equity they have accrued in the club to a supporters trust when the time comes rather than passing it on to Tom. In the meantime we all pay more than other prem fans but will be told we cant compete financially.

3. The club no doubt thinks they have taken the heat out of the situation, banked the cash for this season (£300k if we've sold 6000 as they say) and can now move on and bring in some changes next season when they would have had to change it anyway.

4. The stats from the FtC notes are particularly damning. Show the club knew that they have 4600 fans in the 4-9 away game bracket who would be hit by this and who would undoubtedly buy the away memberships. when you add in the 750 in the 10+ bracket in my view it shows that the club have cynically targeted its 5350 (in the main) most loyal supporters here to make a bit of extra cash which is really a drop in the ocean in premier league terms. 

Its rank hypocrisy. The fact it was signed off by the whole board is damning. I could have been more forgiving if this was someone new on the commercial side of things overstepping the mark trying to make an impression by generating revenues but the fact this was signed off by the whole board is in my view disgusting unless the board members were in some way shielded from some of the details. 

[splendidrush 698]

51 minutes ago, king canary said:

Some tweets from Robin Sainty last night...

Will get a full report about the meeting with the Club on the website tomorrow but quick précis is that not much will change this season, although we still hope to see some improvements for families/kids, but the Club accept they messed up in consultation and hence could have perhaps produced a better scheme there will be wide consultation (ie not just fan groups) between now and finalisation of next year’s scheme in January. It was generally accepted that no scheme will satisfy everyone but that doesn’t mean that the current one is acceptable as the finished product. It can and must evolve and to do that the widest possible range of opinions must be taken into account.

Seems fair....

 

14 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Well I must say the meeting notes released by the various fans groups are very disappointing. My reading of it is:

1. The Club are sorry for not consulting but don't appear apologetic for exploiting the fans for commercial gain.

2. The message is this is what you are going to get as we are "self funding." The alternative would have been increasing the costs of season tickets (£20 on ST's would have been fairer in my view (plus £35 instead of £30 for casual fans) although I don't accept any increase is justified). Wonder when Norwich City fans will really clock that "self funding" = we foot the bill whilst increasing the value of the owners asset for them, paying to rebuild their academy for them etc. If they meant what they say about being custodians of the club for the fans they would give a large chunk of the considerable (and currently very valuable) equity they have accrued in the club to a supporters trust when the time comes rather than passing it on to Tom. In the meantime we all pay more than other prem fans but will be told we cant compete financially.

3. The club no doubt thinks they have taken the heat out of the situation, banked the cash for this season (£300k if we've sold 6000 as they say) and can now move on and bring in some changes next season when they would have had to change it anyway.

4. The stats from the FtC notes are particularly damning. Show the club knew that they have 4600 fans in the 4-9 away game bracket who would be hit by this and who would undoubtedly buy the away memberships. when you add in the 750 in the 10+ bracket in my view it shows that the club have cynically targeted its 5350 (in the main) most loyal supporters here to make a bit of extra cash which is really a drop in the ocean in premier league terms. 

Its rank hypocrisy. The fact it was signed off by the whole board is damning. I could have been more forgiving if this was someone new on the commercial side of things overstepping the mark trying to make an impression by generating revenues but the fact this was signed off by the whole board is in my view disgusting unless the board members were in some way shielded from some of the details. 

Wow....

[Thirsty Lizard 3,154]

25 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

 

for exploiting the fans for commercial gain.

 

You do realise that Norwich City are a business don't you Jim Smith? Every business 'exploits people for commercial gain' as you put it, because that's what businesses are set up to do. In my opinion the rest of your post is way, way over the top.  

[Thirsty Lizard 3,154]

Oh - and season ticket renewals go out in January and have done for years now. I suspect you'd have been the first one on here bellowing your disapproval if they'd put the season ticket prices up in January when nobody knew whether or not we'd make it to the Premier League. 

[Ren 75]

2 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Oh - and season ticket renewals go out in January and have done for years now. I suspect you'd have been the first one on here bellowing your disapproval if they'd put the season ticket prices up in January when nobody knew whether or not we'd make it to the Premier League. 

A point that has been lost on NCFC over the years.  If they actually did renewals in April or May they would know what they are selling and we would know what we were buying and they could price accordingly.  I had this discussion with David McNally when he was here and all he could say was that it suited the club to have our money 8 months in advance of us actually getting the product we are paying for. 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

4 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Oh - and season ticket renewals go out in January and have done for years now. I suspect you'd have been the first one on here bellowing your disapproval if they'd put the season ticket prices up in January when nobody knew whether or not we'd make it to the Premier League. 

They shouldn't be putting anything up at all in a season where our income has increased by nearly £100m. Certainly not for the sake of raising £300,000. If we are  doing ok and they wanted to put ST's up by £20 or so then yes I would have grumbled because again its a drop in the ocean so seems unnecessary (most comparable prem clubs have cut season ticket prices for fans in recent years or certainly have them available cheaper than ours) but I doubt it would have been much more than a bit of grumbling from us usual suspects.

Football clubs may be a business but we all know they are not like normal businesses and fans are not like normal "customers" as it takes an awful lot for us to walk away. Fine if that's how they want to operate but lay off the hypocritical, community club b**locks and the bleating about the greed of the premier league and bow badly the fans are treated.

Bottom line is they have targeted 5,000 of their most loyal supporters to make a quick buck at a time when they didn't need to. That should open some people's eyes about how things are. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,776]

5 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Football clubs may be a business but we all know they are not like normal businesses and fans are not like normal "customers" as it takes an awful lot for us to walk away. Fine if that's how they want to operate but lay off the hypocritical, community club b**locks and the bleating about the greed of the premier league and bow badly the fans are treated.

Bottom line is they have targeted 5,000 of their most loyal supporters to make a quick buck at a time when they didn't need to. That should open some people's eyes about how things are. 

Modern football, isn't it? Especially in England.

[lake district canary 4,530]

Well to me as one of those who is in the 4-9 away games and 4-9 home games too for that matter, I shan't be complaining so much as long as I can get to the matches I want to, but I shall be angry if I have paid £100 for two memberships and am not able to go to the matches I can get to.

It could all work out fairly in the end, but unfortunately it just looks a bit bad from the club. It looks as if they think that 50 or 100 pounds is no big deal in the scheme of things.......maybe it is, maybe it isn't......but there are ways of doing things and they got it wrong this time. 

 

[SwindonCanary 455]

On 26/06/2019 at 08:45, SwindonCanary said:

I can't see it changing much this season, what are they going to do ? Refund every £50 and go back to how it used to be ?

Well, I got that right !

[nutty nigel 7,506]

It wouldn't be a close season if Jimbo wasn't having a meltdown rant about something.🙃

[lake district canary 4,530]

 

[Matt Juler 148]

I'd still like to know how many people have bought each of the memberships, and whether the club plan any sort of cap.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

7 minutes ago, Matt Juler said:

I'd still like to know how many people have bought each of the memberships, and whether the club plan any sort of cap.

The notes from the meeting say that he said they've sold 6,000 memberships. I took that to mean away memberships but perhaps someone from one of the fans groups can confirm if any of them post on here.

That video above just wound me up even more really. Membership is about belonging or being a part of something not just about jumping the queue for tickets. that's exactly what it was for my son last season with his junior canary membership but not any more. It is the club that has made membership about jumping the queue for tickets Benny boy but then you know that as that's why its a money maker!

[lake district canary 4,530]

Apologies from BK from the way it was implemented and the lack of consultation....two of the most obvious things that should have been considered.   You see it all the time in business and government - people in power or management coming up with schemes and ideas that they think are great and they ignore the very people that their schemes will affect.  Then say they will learn from this and consult more......pity they didn't do that in the first place!!

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by lake district canary

[Jim Smith 2,314]

3 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Apologies from BK from the way it was implemented and the lack of consultation....two of the most obvious things that should have been considered.   You see it all the time in business and government - people in power or management coming up with schemes and ideas that they think are great and they ignore the very people that their schemes will affect.  Ben say they will learn from this and consult more......pity they didn't do that in the first place!!

 

Its also a classic tactic for forcing through something unpopular. Apologise about the bits that are peripheral or everything apart from the thing people are most upset about. Turn all the attention to the "consultation" meanwhile the cash is banked and the scheme is in place. They will tweak it next year but then they were always going to have to anyway as if we stay up demand will be much lower and if we go down it will be as well. Job done for Ben!

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,735]

Thats it then .....roughly 6000 of us will be fighting for 2250 tickets the very minute they become available , in a game of who's fastest on the button ....be it online,phone or in the que at the ticket office.

......unless this figure of 6000 means total number of memerships both home and away?

[lappinitup 629]

30 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Apologise about the bits that are peripheral or everything apart from the thing people are most upset about. Turn all the attention to the "consultation" .....

Did those fan's groups consult all their members for their views before attending? 👨‍👨‍👧

No-one asked me what I thought. 🙄

[Matt Juler 148]

From a personal and very selfish perspective I'm just pleased that this decision has happened now, and not 10 years ago when I was going to a large number of away games.  

My biggest gripe isn't the cost, for most people who travel away regularly I don't believe £50 would break the bank (if it does, then maybe priorities need to change), it's the complete lottery and need to be able to buy tickets exactly when they go on sale.  With the old scheme, if you were in the top couple of point categories you had a very good chance of getting a ticket and there wasn't the rush as long as you bought within your window.  A teacher from Dereham, a doctor from Acle, a bus driver on the A47, they could all get their tickets later in the day with no issue, as long as they bought within the window.

The new scheme massively favours those, like me, who have a desk job and can sneak online at 8.59am, refreshing the ticket website until tickets go on sale.  I can picture now the calamity of the ticket system crashing at 9.01am on Tuesday 23rd July when the tickets for Liverpool go on sale.

How anyone can argue that membership open to all like this is better than points is clearly living in cloud cuckoo land as far as I'm concerned.  Maybe the points system needed an overall, but with points you can control priority and reward those who are at the top of the list.  Football is a simple game and the winner of the league is the team with the most points.  Maybe, just because Ipswich paid their membership fee, we should let them be promoted next season instead of us?

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,776]

56 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Thats it then .....roughly 6000 of us will be fighting for 2250 tickets the very minute they become available , in a game of who's fastest on the button ....be it online,phone or in the que at the ticket office.

......unless this figure of 6000 means total number of memerships both home and away?

Not all of those 6,000 will want tickets for every game though. I'm only able to go to two all season...

[city4eva 207]

It sucks, I have a season ticket and I have been going to 1 or 2 away games every season so I had a few away points. I wont be going to any this season unless they go on sale to season ticket holders as i wont pay £50 on the off chance I can get a couple of away tickets..thanks Ben.

 

As has been said by Jim, this isnt about a fair system its about exploiting loyal fans

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,421]

Where has the 6000 membership figure come from? 

 

(You can still buy them btw. )

Edited June 28, 2019 by Graham Paddons Beard

[Mind the gap 12]

1 hour ago, Matt Juler said:

From a personal and very selfish perspective I'm just pleased that this decision has happened now, and not 10 years ago when I was going to a large number of away games.  

My biggest gripe isn't the cost, for most people who travel away regularly I don't believe £50 would break the bank (if it does, then maybe priorities need to change), it's the complete lottery and need to be able to buy tickets exactly when they go on sale.  With the old scheme, if you were in the top couple of point categories you had a very good chance of getting a ticket and there wasn't the rush as long as you bought within your window.  A teacher from Dereham, a doctor from Acle, a bus driver on the A47, they could all get their tickets later in the day with no issue, as long as they bought within the window.

The new scheme massively favours those, like me, who have a desk job and can sneak online at 8.59am, refreshing the ticket website until tickets go on sale.  I can picture now the calamity of the ticket system crashing at 9.01am on Tuesday 23rd July when the tickets for Liverpool go on sale.

How anyone can argue that membership open to all like this is better than points is clearly living in cloud cuckoo land as far as I'm concerned.  Maybe the points system needed an overall, but with points you can control priority and reward those who are at the top of the list.  Football is a simple game and the winner of the league is the team with the most points.  Maybe, just because Ipswich paid their membership fee, we should let them be promoted next season instead of us?

Not sure that the first game, in scouseland on a friday night on the telly, will cause a protest blockage of tractors and combine harvesters around Carra Rud. But the next away game at the Olympic Stadium could well do.

[Badger 2,405]

Not normally "a moaner," but I am disappointed with the club over this. 

[ricardo 7,328]

7 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

 

2. The message is this is what you are going to get as we are "self funding." The alternative would have been increasing the costs of season tickets (£20 on ST's would have been fairer in my view (plus £35 instead of £30 for casual fans) 

So to be clear Jim, you think its ok that season ticket holders should pay more in order to subsidise away supporters and casuals.

Or have I got that wrong.

[Mr Angry 1,542]

1 hour ago, Mind the gap said:

Not sure that the first game, in scouseland on a friday night on the telly, will cause a protest blockage of tractors and combine harvesters around Carra Rud. But the next away game at the Olympic Stadium could well do.

Good-it’s a 20 minute car journey to Anfield for me, I’d hate to miss out!

[Jim Smith 2,314]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

So to be clear Jim, you think its ok that season ticket holders should pay more in order to subsidise away supporters and casuals.

Or have I got that wrong.

I don’t think anyone should be paying more Ricardo. I really don’t. And I think the fairest thing would just have been to charge more for casual home tickets if they are that desperate for cash. But yes since it guarantees a seat I also think it would have been better/fairer to add a small amount to the STs than to charge people £50 to enter a lottery for away tickets. 

[Mind the gap 12]

30 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

Good-it’s a 20 minute car journey to Anfield for me, I’d hate to miss out!

Make sure yer hubcaps are locked.

[A Load of Squit 5,111]

3 hours ago, lappinitup said:

Did those fan's groups consult all their members for their views before attending? 👨‍👨‍👧

No-one asked me what I thought. 🙄

You should raise this with the group that you are a member of.