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TwoSheds

Would you sign if you were Jarvis?

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Somehow i dont think i would. Just 2 apearences so far this season in what can only be called a very under performing squad & clueless managerial decisions. If Worthy stays & turns things around ( i dont believe he will ) poor young Jarvis will be left out in the cold for even longer. A lad with his talent should start to be playing week in week out. Another season under Worthless could be very harmfull to the young lad.

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I think he is just looking at how many chances his older brother is (not) getting... 

I mean his brother has scored 1 goal in 4 subs last year and 1 goal in 3 subs this year and he doesnt even feature as a sub reguarly in an injury hit side....

If i were him i would go elsewhere.

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I would do what he is doing - think long and hard.

In favour is the present known situation, living at home, working with his brother.

Against is the unwillingness of the present management to play

youngsters, and possibly even to develop them. With exception of Green

and possibly Shackle, it has been a few years (Bellers, Mills?) since

talent has been finally developed at Norwich. Is he attracted by the

bright lights of London as a place to live?

It depends, - does he want to sit on the bench at C.R. and watch

cloggers trying to play in the midfield, or does he want to go to a

larger club, in terms squad size and Premiership possibility, and sit

on the bench there? The advice from his father and others may decide.

If the feeling is that he has real potential, as shown by the

Premiership clubs sniffing around, he would be better advised to go

elsewhere.

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No I don''t think I would.  Look how many chances his brother has been given?  Jack all.  This must have an influence on Rossi''s decision.  If you look at Worthington''s youth policy in the 5 years he''s been here, how many kids have been given a go?  Shacks (briefly) and Hendo (played out of position!) 2 players in 5 bloody years!  Players like Jarvis senior haven''t been given a go and other players brought through the youth system (Bloomfield, Sinclair, Crow, Hayes) have all been realised.

Rossi must have seen just how awful our midfield has been this season.  Yet he has seen players like Hughes and Jarrett picked ahead of him and players like Robinson and Etuhu brought in on loan.  This must be so dispondent for the guy.  If another club (whether it be in the Premiership or the Championship) offered him a go, I wouldn''t blame him for thinking long and hard

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[quote user="DumbleDelia is Magic"]

No I don''t think I would.  Look how many chances his brother has been given?  Jack all.  This must have an influence on Rossi''s decision.  If you look at Worthington''s youth policy in the 5 years he''s been here, how many kids have been given a go?  Shacks (briefly) and Hendo (played out of position!) 2 players in 5 bloody years!  Players like Jarvis senior haven''t been given a go and other players brought through the youth system (Bloomfield, Sinclair, Crow, Hayes) have all been realised.

Rossi must have seen just how awful our midfield has been this season.  Yet he has seen players like Hughes and Jarrett picked ahead of him and players like Robinson and Etuhu brought in on loan.  This must be so dispondent for the guy.  If another club (whether it be in the Premiership or the Championship) offered him a go, I wouldn''t blame him for thinking long and hard

[/quote]

Lets be honest DDIM, how many of the players you have mentioned have actually been good enough?  Shackell is the only one of the players you mentioned that has come into the side and won himself a place.  In regards to Ryan Jarvis, as someone rightly mentions he has not played even when we have had an injury crisis.  The answer to that though is because he himself has been injured.  Jarvis went on loan to Colchester at the end of last season and did nothing to suggest he should be in our first team.  He played 6 games and did not score.

Quick frankly all this stuff about Worthy''s youth policy is rubbish.  How many youngsters have we brought the ranks and released have gone onto better things in Worthy''s time?  If the youth players are not good enough we can hardly blame Worthy.

Hands up those of you that would rather have Danny Bloomfield as opposed to Dean Ashton. 

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No question, I would definitely go if I were him. It''s clear he will not get a chance here under Worthington. And that''s a bloody shame. The only player we have seen who has been given a fair go, and who Worthington seems to see something in, is Henderson, and who knows why because he is probably the worst of the lot...

As I said, he won''t get a chance, and the line on the official site that made me laugh was when Worthington said, "He''s obviously another Academy boy that''s come through..." Oh yeah because we have so many don''t we Worthy? As DD mentioned, we must have had a handful in the last 5 years. As a club we must have one of, if not the, poorest records of no youth players coming through in the entire country.

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It concerns me that there seems to be a notion in our management team that you never win with kids. The problem is we never give them the right loan deals for them to gain experience, we just chuck em in the deep end, let them have a nightmare and then use that as an excuse not to play them. Even Hendo and Shacks (two most used based upon appearances) were wrongly used when they made debuts (or soon after) Shacks had a terrible games at left back, and Hendo has rarely been given a chance anywhere except out of position.

The thing is if Rossi doesnt sign, then someone somewhere must ask more questions on whether Nigel is the right man. The whole idea of a youth system is that you invest in their abilities for when you need them at first team level. Seems a total waste to bring someone so far, then let them go.

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I would stay because i love Norwich City. But if i was a neutral footballer then i would be running away from any contract they gave me. Shackell didnt get played last season until it was too late, henderson never played in his proper position, jarvis just doesnt play at all and even Rossi is being played in midfield (isnt he a defender?). I think he will sign, he is in no rush

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Bloomfield was not a Norwich accademy product so rule him out for a start.

Shackel was given his chance last season and proved his worth - only injury has ruled out more appearences this season. If people remember Worthingtons last comment/interview regarding Davenport he suggests bringing back the Spurs man very much depends on Shackel which to me says how highly he rates him.

Please don''t refer to Mills as being a good youth team product - his attitude at the time was well reported as being incompatible with the other playes and as a course of this he was sold. Once he settled down and learnt a few lessons under Curbishly at Charlton he became a better player. Right place right time and he reaped the rewards.

Bellamy was quality - every now and then teams churn out a Bellamy/Rooney esque player. They are not the sort of player that you can churn hundreds out of. They have the "magic" that you simply can not coach into a player.

Both Ryan and Rossi have the ability to become good players. Wherever Rossi chooses to go he will end up in a similar position. If I were him I would sign the two year deal and think about it again when he is 19. No team at the moment will sign him as a first team player - unless it is a team in a lower league and or with a small squad.

He is better off sticking with City for now and keep going the way he is. If he puts pressure on the players in the first team then I think he will continue to pick up more admirers and may even get that starting berth.

I think Worthington does hold both of them in high regards - they have served well when they have been called upon and bled green and yellow. He knows how good they are and I have a feeling is just waiting for the right moment to unleash them. Ryan has had niggling injuries the last couple of seasons which has affected his availability. How unlucky has he been recently having had an injury at the same time as Thorne and McKenzie? He surely would have started had it not been for the ankle injury.

Henderson is also a good player. He has played well when played upfront - a good battler. He is in a similar boat to Ryan in that he has represented and scored for England. I think he deserves a good chance up front before any real conclusions are drawn on him.

There are plenty of good players coming through the accedemy now - I am sure that there are plenty of people who post on here who have seen them for themselves in reserve matches and will support this. We have to remember that the youth system suffered for a few years before the new accademy was set up.

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Personally, if I was Rossi Jarvis, I would sign the contract. If he seriously thinks he''d be better off going to a Premiership club, he''s a fool. As there is a much slimmer chance of him breaking into the first team there, than there is here! Premiership manager''s are under so much pressure to win every game, unless Rossi Jarvis is a top talent (i.e. Rooney/Bellamy - which I''m not convinced he is) then he will have to be patient.

Many posters on here are being far too pessimistic - and it smacks of them trying to twist this situation into another argument for sacking Worthington. However, using this argument (that Worthington doesn''t progress young players and therefore he should be sacked) just makes those people using it appear to be uninformed and lacking in knowledge on the workings of football - potentially making their arguments in other posts weaker.

As a former youth player of a professional club, may I point out to some of you, that Worthington does give young players a chance. The fact is, young players only break into the first team in one of four circumstances:

1) Injuries / suspensions / sale of first team players

2) Young player is an obvious top talent (i.e. Rooney / Bellamy / Eadie)

3) Meaningless fixture (i.e. end of season game, 1st round of Coca Cola Cup)

4) A poorly performing team (but the worst time to make your debut as chances are you''ll struggle to impress in a poor team).

Now, given this, when a young player gets his chance, he must deliver the goods, to make the manager realise - "I can''t drop this guy". That''s what you''ve got to do. It is the only way to succeed. Some youth players only get one chance to succeed at clubs - 1 appearance. Worthington has given Ryan Jarvis 3 years to perform at this club. He had a golden chance to make himself ''undroppable'' in the Coca Cola Cup game 1st Round this season. But sadly - he let himself down badly. He did nothing that night to show he should be a first team player. And it is is chances like that you have to take.

Now take Ian Henderson. He broke into the team during our Promotion season. He even nailed a first team place and made himself undroppable for a while, scoring goals. Then, he has a couple of poor games, the crowd get on top of him, his confidence is shot. He drops back to being a squad player. But he still had a chance - and for a while - he had taken it.

Now take Jason Shackle. This guy has had a looooong wait to get into the first team. Why did he wait so long? Simply because Malky and Fleming never got injured, and never got suspended - and Kenton could cover there when they did. Those three were all at the top of their game a couple of years ago. At other clubs or if he was a little bit older, Shackle would''ve been moved on, simply because he needed first team football. This is no reflection on his ability. It''s simply that first team players barred his way. And that happens to youngsters every season, at every big club - and maybe even smaller clubs. Eventually Shackle got his chance - and for a while he made himself undroppable - he took his chance. And that''s the point - when young players finally get a chance - they must take it - because you might not get another one - and no player deserves endless time with a tag of ''potential'' to live off.

Finally - young players get realesed.  Crow, Hayes, Sinclair, Batt, Way have all been mentioned. The fact is, these guys were released because a) first team players blocked their chances, b) they weren''t good enough for this level. The fact that Crow and Hayes are scoring in the lower leagues doesn''t mean they can cut it at this level. Chris Greenacre scored for fun at Mansfield but couldn''t score at Championship level at all for Stoke. Hayes was available for a move from Scunthorpe - did a big club move for him? No, only Barnsley did. The point is, they are likely to be no better, but quite likely worse, than the players in our first team. How anyone can say, for definite, that we shouldn''t have released them, is assuming way too much!

 

 

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Well reasoned argument CP, but I would beg to differ in a couple of ways.

Every good side is made up of a blend. Youth and experience, bruisers and skill players and academy boys and non-local boys.

Without a balance the team loses identity, the other young players realise that they will never get a chance, their confidence drops and their game suffers. How do you think Jarvis felt when Crow was given the boot and Thorne was signed? He knows it''s another season twiddling his thumbs.

It is a ridiculous notion to think that young players do not have their eye on the future. If they can see they will not get a game until they are 22, or until they have "filled out" a bit, they will move on for the sake of their careers.

Alex Ferguson took a huge gamble on a crop of youth players he had almost personally groomed to perfection. He played them whether they won or not. And after a 20 game season or so, they had all gained the necessary skills to cope with big-match action. From small acorns etc etc ...

If Nigel Worthington truly believes he has young talent, they MUST be integrated into the first team, win lose or draw, otherwise they will not develop, they will stagnate and then they will be playing for colchester age 22.

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