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Rhino1

Max Arrons will he or won’t he?

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11 minutes ago, JF said:

In my time watching football, Crystal Palace have never been a ‘bigger’ club than us. It wasn’t that long ago we both got promoted and relegated together. They are no different than any of the other contenders in the lower half of the Premier League and upper half of the championship that rotate to make up the Premier League numbers. They, like us will be a championship team again, sooner than later. You can probably add at least 15 other teams in that category. So no yellow tinted specs here, Aaron’s to Palace is a sideways move at best and won’t happen.

In the grand of scheme of things, you're right: Palace are no bigger than us. I never said they were.

What I said was that they're more established than us, and that at this moment in time they'd be a step forward. This is because next year will be their seventh consecutive year in the Premier League whereas we'll be playing in our first, they have bigger name players than us who are mostly established Premier League players and they have a bigger budget. Also, we are generally regarded to be far more likely to be relegated in the eyes of the experts, pundits, betting companies... Everyone, basically.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

In the grand of scheme of things, you're right: Palace are no bigger than us. I never said they were.

What I said was that they're more established than us, and that at this moment in time they'd be a step forward. This is because next year will be their seventh consecutive year in the Premier League whereas we'll be playing in our first, they have bigger name players than us who are mostly established Premier League players and they have a bigger budget. Also, we are generally regarded to be far more likely to be relegated in the eyes of the experts, pundits, betting companies... Everyone, basically.

But they are not more established, That’s an illusion. Their  6 previous season hold no baring on this coming season any more than West Brom’s or Villas etc many more seasons did when their “established” teams got relegated, They will be starting next season with the same aim as us and every other team from a pool of about 10-12 teams, avoid relegation and reach 40 points. What pundits and betting companies believe will happen holds no relevance whatsoever to what will happen. 

Edited by JF

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Just to put this myth of established Premier League teams to the sword, a quick look at the table shows 7 teams that you could justifiably call established. Man Utd, Man City, (wasn’t always the case but money changed that) Liverpool, Everton, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea. That’s it

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, JF said:

But they are not more established, That’s an illusion. Their  6 previous season hold no baring on this coming season any more than West Brom’s or Villas etc many more seasons did when their “established” teams got relegated, They will be starting next season with the same aim as us and every other team from a pool of about 10-12 teams, avoid relegation and reach 40 points. What pundits and betting companies believe will happen holds no relevance whatsoever to what will happen. 

I couldn't disagree much more with this.

Of course they're more estsblished. They have seven consecutive seasons of Premier League football compared to our one. They have six years of Premier League TV money behind them, six years of building a Premier League squad, six years of being on TV every week in the 'biggest league in the world'. All of this adds up and it makes Crystal Palace a more attractive proposition than us right now. This doesn't mean that they won't get relegated- but it does mean that it's more unlikely for them than it is for us.

Palace's target next season will be higher than ours. Ours, realistically, is to finish 17th, first and foremost. Palace haven't really been involved in a serious relegation scrap for three years now, so their objective will probably be to finish in the top half, or maybe top 12.

And if the betting companies' odds didn't have any bearing on what would happen, then the teams with the shortest prices wouldn't always finish near the top of the table. Aside from Leicester in 2016, the pre-season title odds generally reflect the final table pretty well.

 

Edited by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

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5 minutes ago, JF said:

Just to put this myth of established Premier League teams to the sword, a quick look at the table shows 7 teams that you could justifiably call established. Man Utd, Man City, (wasn’t always the case but money changed that) Liverpool, Everton, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea. That’s it

Depends what you call established. I think your interpretation of the word is just a team who has no possibility of being relegated. I'd say any team who can string four or five consecutive seasons together are established. It doesn't mean they're immune from relegation, but they've certainly established themselves as regulars within the league.

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The argument (from the player’s point of view) against having a season here to see if it works out and then moving if we go down is that (especially as a defender) teams are less likely to be interested in you if you’ve just been part of a relegated side. Or perhaps you’re not up to the standard but you get a chance at/wages from a really big club for a couple of years. 

The argument that Palace aren’t more established than us despite being about to start their seventh successive season in the prem is a difficult one to follow. Being established means you’ve done it for a long time, it doesn’t mean you’re guaranteed to keep doing it. We’ve had a run of 0 seasons in the prem, palace have had a run of 6. Who has been “doing it” for longer? 

In saying that, I don’t think Aarons (or anyone else) will go to Palace. The only way I see us losing anyone we don’t want to lose is if there is a big offer from a top 6 side. 

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Roy Hodgson is a good club manager who sets his teams up effectively and gets results at PL level but is he and his coaches going to work on improving Aarons or any other player individually? I'd say no. For the sake of his career he'd be better off staying here for a season or two working on his game with a good coach then moving to a top 6 club. Makes good financial sense in the short term to move to Palace but I would hope he's taking a longer term view of things.

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Just been a little piece on SSN about Aarons. Apparently Wan-Bissaka is Solskjaer's first choice, but if he can't sign him then he'll go for Aarons. However, if Palace lose Wan-Bissaka, Aarons is their first-choice replacement. They also said that Tottenham and RB Leipzig were interested in him. Either way, I expect we'll have some firm bids to consider in the next few weeks.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Aggy said:

The argument (from the player’s point of view) against having a season here to see if it works out and then moving if we go down is that (especially as a defender) teams are less likely to be interested in you if you’ve just been part of a relegated side. Or perhaps you’re not up to the standard but you get a chance at/wages from a really big club for a couple of years. 

The argument that Palace aren’t more established than us despite being about to start their seventh successive season in the prem is a difficult one to follow. Being established means you’ve done it for a long time, it doesn’t mean you’re guaranteed to keep doing it. We’ve had a run of 0 seasons in the prem, palace have had a run of 6. Who has been “doing it” for longer? 

In saying that, I don’t think Aarons (or anyone else) will go to Palace. The only way I see us losing anyone we don’t want to lose is if there is a big offer from a top 6 side. 

The argument that Palace aren’t more established than us despite being about to start their seventh successive season in the prem is a difficult one to follow.

 

 

That wasn’t the argument. The point I was making is that their  six seasons in the PL doesn’t make them “established” or for a different word, mainstays in the division. A move to Palace for Aaron’s is a sideways one to a team that sooner than later will find themselves relegated again, the same way all clubs of our stature do. Eight seasons being “established” didn’t stop West Brom from dropping. Aston Villa were “established” at 24 seasons! I see Crystal Palace as a relegation rival along with all the others that are just there making up the numbers until inevitably they get relegated. Maybe this season will be their turn to drop just like the established West Brom did. Also for Palace’s six seasons we have also been there for two, the first one being relegated ourselves in out third season, were we “established” then? How I interpret “established” there is no such thing beyond the elite. 

Edited by JF

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It does, in the end, come down to simple economics for us. We don't have to sell him so it will take an astronomical offer to temp us. If not then we get to keep him. Win-win as far as I can see.

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Posted (edited)

Let Palace have Max Arrons  for what ever that are prepared to pay. Never heard of him myself.

Max Aarons on the other hand: they can bloody well sod off.

Edited by CanaryChris
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If we sell for silly money, I trust DF/SW to have organized a replacement good enough to step in, leaving us with a healthy profit. 🙏

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A few smart arses trashing my dyslexia - pity you couldn’t give it a try for even a day, let alone living  with it for 50 years!! Then you may understand and not make smart, ignorant jibes!!!! Pathetic! 

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With all due respect to Crystal Palace, Max is much better than that. He's a top 6 player and he shouldn't be looking at other Premier League teams. I hope the club don't stand in his way if we get an acceptable offer from a top team. Anyone else should be politely refused. 

The same goes for Godfrey, Lewis and Buendia but Aarons is the best of the lot. 

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Unfortunately there comes a point when it makes commercial sense to let him go. If we get an offer that Webber feels allows us to buy someone of a similar standard and pocket a sizable profit then we would probably sell. 

I desperately hope that offer doesn't come as quality as good as Aarons isn't going to be easy to find and would almost certainly have to be someone on the up rather than established in order to fit into our wage structure. It just shows what a remarkable range of talent we have at present.

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Posted (edited)

We all seem to be well acquainted with the scenario we prefer for all of Aarons, Godfrey, Buendia and Lewis.

Keep hold of them all for the entirety of the coming season. Rely upon them to fully contribute to a successful season ie. survival and maybe that little bit more.

See their respective values surge, as they surely will.

Then bow to the inevitable and, willingly or otherwise, cash in.

That's the best we can hope for surely? We can only perform the Canute act for so long.

In the meantime we tell ourselves that a season of further establishment in the comfort of Carrow Road is the best thing for all of them. Rather a regular first team season in the yellow than a bit of bench warming in a red tracksuit after all.This, of course, may or may not be the case, but it suits our bias to the full.Whether the player or his agent thinks the same is a matter for conjecture.

For the next month or two then it's just a question of keeping our fingers crossed and relying upon Webber, Farke and the scouting team to continue to perform miracles whatever happens.

(If we cannot avoid losing any of our youngsters in the coming month or so then a good price accompanied by healthy sell-on clauses is essential.) 

Edited by BroadstairsR
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Webber has already stated that we are not under any pressure to sell players this summer, and to sell one of our crown jewels when we've only just come up from the Championship I think would be crazy. We also haven't even found cover for Aarons yet so I can't see us selling him when we would have no one to fill his position

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21 hours ago, hogesar said:

If Palace got close to the £60m they want for Wan Bissaka then they might see a £30m investment in Aarons as very good and sensible business.

Not that i'd want him to go this season, even for that amount.

I would be very disappointed in the club if we let Aarons go for £30m if the market thinks Wan B is worth £60m. That's ludicrous money for a fairly average defender. Battle to keep him another season, he's worth more to us than the money we might accept.

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8 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I would be very disappointed in the club if we let Aarons go for £30m if the market thinks Wan B is worth £60m. That's ludicrous money for a fairly average defender. Battle to keep him another season, he's worth more to us than the money we might accept.

AWB is a very good defender, to say the least.

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Webber has said all along that we do not need to sell, and the players are happy at Norwich. The only thing would be if a big club  offered a figure we could not turn down, and the player wanted to go there. I am confident all our youngsters will want a season with us in the Premiership as they earned it by getting promotion.

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Max our only RB we need badly in PL, one season in Championship means interested parties will offer Championship prices.  We know he is worth £30m but neither Palaca, United or Spurs will offer that and try to get on the cheap, can see their offers being rejected maybe until Max established in PL like Van Bissaka who has 1 season under his belt.  Can't see Max creating if a move to Palace falls through.

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I think that Max and the rest of the "named headhunted" players will  be well advised by both Webber & Farke. They know they are guaranteed football here working to a system that everyone else in the team is adept at. Imagine any of them joining a team that doesn't play "Farkeball" and when the pressure is on given the ultimatum "you need to play hoofball or you won't be picked"!

Although Webber & Farke have said they won't stand in the way of anyone wanting to leave, by the same token they will not allow the team to be decimated and thereby compromising our chances of a decent season in the PL (and I don't consider 17th to be a decent season!). Given that they have also spoken to the youngsters individually along with their agents, then I don't see much outward movement from them.

Going to one of the top 6 clubs does not guarantee them playing regularly - even the best players at the Chelskis and Man Citehs of the world aren't guaranteed that.

The experience of 3 out of the last 4 big money signings away from CR can hardly fill them with inspiration. Except for Maddison - and he was truly exceptional - none of the others have set the world alight. Jacob being loaned out from Newcastle to WBA - who even with Gayle as well- couldn't make the play off final. Josh joining Cardiff and relegated 1st season and as for Alex Pritchard - well he lasted 1 season more at Huddersfield than Josh did at Cardiff. I can't see any of those 3 being under the "most sought after" category.

But to conclude, it is the sheer arrogance from CP  to assume that as a newly promoted club, we would lie back and let the "established" PL clubs take who they wanted - as in "If AWB goes to Man Utd then we will go and get Max from Norwich"! (I also remember the Dwight Gayle incident from CP when we sold Bradders to Derby to get the funds for Gayle only for CP to pull the rug from under our feet).

Rant over - for the time being!

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Wan-Bissaka had an absolute mare for England U21s last night. 

Scored a 95th minute own goal to give the French a 2-1 victory.

From the BBC match report: "But they were sloppy in possession for large periods with Wan-Bissaka, who has been heavily linked with a move to Manchester United, one of the main offenders."

"And it was then a cruel end for England and Wan-Bissaka, who looked shaky throughout, as he miscued a clearance from a corner into his own net in the fifth minute of added time." 

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The Wan-Bissaka OG is not one of those 'He had to get something on it and was unlucky' ones. He absolutely belts the ball into the back of the net.

On the subject of Aarons, if Man Utd are keen and bid over 20m I think he will eventually go after some negotiation. But they must prefer WB as he has had that season proven in the prem. I'm confident Aarons will be here come the start of the season.

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We really ought to persuade him that his long-term career will be better served by a good season with us in the Premier. Bench-warming on more money at United probably won't do him any favours. Now if United want him as first choice and convince his representatives of that then it may be a different matter. But I doubt that's the case after one season in the Championship. 

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He's not for sale nor are we open to offers apparently, according to Nick Ma****er on twitter.

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27 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

He's not for sale nor are we open to offers apparently, according to Nick Ma****er on twitter.

Encouraging. If Aarons wants to stay, I have no doubt that he will - if he'd told us he wanted to leave for United then I'd imagine we'd already be negotiating.

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As other posters have pointed out, its win win for me. If he gets sold it will be for circa 25 million. Providing that was put back into the transfer kitty we'd be able to get a few more quality additions for the XI. Of course if he stays, we have arguably the best quality young RB in the country.

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Problem with huge fees coming in is it compromises the clubs thinking.... if they sign players for big fees, the wages are likely to reflect that and the club have clearly said they will not upset the balance and they won't have players coming in earning more money than the current squad................ on that basis, not sure where the income would go....

Simple solution...... refuse to sell.    How will this philosophy survive if we do start selling and fans want the money reinvested in similar quality players...    

Not easy running a football club successfully is it!

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