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Alex Moss

Where will we finish next season - predictions.

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"Ok, I've put a tenner on finishing top six at 66/1."

When the odds are so favourable then there is little to lose  by having a small wager.

I learned this lesson the hard way in a pub in Birmingham's Hagley Road on a Super Sunday afternoon.

I had, had a week-end in Brum with my Spurs supporting friend, which included a City game at St. Andrews.

Derby County were playing one of the big six and they went behind early on.

In a moment of booze-filled rashness I said to my friend that it's 100-1 against a Derby win.

He said he'd take the bet and handed me a pound.

Derby won with ex-canary Ashley ward hitting the winner. Ouch!

I said to my friend that I didn't expect that in a million years. His reply: "Neither did I, but what's a pound to lose?"

 

So I'll have abet on at 66-1. Not ten pounds though, one pound will suffice. 

 

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1 hour ago, Half Ar5ed Hipster said:
16 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Why should predicting finishing 4th be ridiculous?  I just don't get the way people put the PL up on a pedestal so much.  Apart from the top two, the rest of the PL last season was distinctly average

I do wonder if you post these things just to be controversial sometimes?

No. That is just a cop out kind of reply.  My opinions are always going to be positive in response to rampant negativity or people assuming we are going to struggle when the evidence of how we play and the kind of players we have suggests we will hold our own.  I've watched match of the day and seen every week how certain teams are not working hard enough, not well organised enough, poor decision making, etc etc and we will be better in many areas than some of those teams and have imo plenty of players of premier league calibre. Why the heck shouldn't we do ok?  

4th is a long shot, I'll admit, but it's no more positive than thinking we will be rolling around at the bottom is negative.

Also, contrary to what Fuzzar says, I don't think I did predict us finishing top last season, I predicted play offs. But during last season the mood was so negative after the Ipswich away game that I predicted we would come good and win the next few games....and we won four and drew one, setting us on the way to top.   

People will always rebel against positivity when it is seen as being the opposite of what they think, but sometimes, negativity needs to be faced up to otherwise it can set in.  Thankfully the team/squad/coach seem to be immune from getting negative when things get tough.....another reason why I think we will do ok next season.

 

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Out of interest LDC do you know when the last time a promoted team finished 4th or higher in the PL was?

Blackburn 93-94 and they had to break the British transfer record to do it.

I think that’s why people are saying it’s ridiculous. I’m all for positivity, but the actual likelihood is so remote it’s practically a fantasy. Not too mention the strength of the PL now in comparison is miles tougher.

 

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2 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

No. That is just a cop out kind of reply.  My opinions are always going to be positive in response to rampant negativity or people assuming we are going to struggle when the evidence of how we play and the kind of players we have suggests we will hold our own.  I've watched match of the day and seen every week how certain teams are not working hard enough, not well organised enough, poor decision making, etc etc and we will be better in many areas than some of those teams and have imo plenty of players of premier league calibre. Why the heck shouldn't we do ok?  

4th is a long shot, I'll admit, but it's no more positive than thinking we will be rolling around at the bottom is negative.

Also, contrary to what Fuzzar says, I don't think I did predict us finishing top last season, I predicted play offs. But during last season the mood was so negative after the Ipswich away game that I predicted we would come good and win the next few games....and we won four and drew one, setting us on the way to top.   

People will always rebel against positivity when it is seen as being the opposite of what they think, but sometimes, negativity needs to be faced up to otherwise it can set in.  Thankfully the team/squad/coach seem to be immune from getting negative when things get tough.....another reason why I think we will do ok next season.

 

But there isn't any rampant negativity. Rampant negativity would be everyone predicting relegation ala Big Vince, instead it has mostly been people predicting survival and saying they'd be please with that.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Out of interest LDC do you know when the last time a promoted team finished 4th or higher in the PL was?

Blackburn 93-94 and they had to break the British transfer record to do it.

I think that’s why people are saying it’s ridiculous. I’m all for positivity, but the actual likelihood is so remote it’s practically a fantasy. Not too mention the strength of the PL now in comparison is miles tougher.

 

Yes, it's a fantasy, but imo so is predicting bottom three or 17th or whatever. 

The big danger is that people fall into the trap of thinking we are going to struggle down near the bottom of the table all season, before we even start. The media have us as relegation certainties, all other clubs' fans will think the same. But why would we think that when we have so many players that look to be able to rise to PL standard and a style of playing that many have said is already suited to the PL?

Cardiff were nailed on to go down and they did. Fulham spent millions and played a kind of football with a system that should have worked, but without the work rate/organisation to make it work. We are like neither of those teams. We have the players, we have the system, we have the work rate, the coaches, we have stability, we have built without spending millions.....we are way more set up to do well going up, than perhaps any team of the last few years apart from perhaps Wolves.

Do I really think we will finish 4th?  Probably not, but I certainly think that with the way things are at the club, we are set to do well - and yes, just maybe challenging up towards the top of the table.   Predicting 17th or near is fair enough if that is what you think, but to me it just seems a bit of an easy option to take, like - "Everyone is saying we will struggle so it must be true" or - "The evidence is that promoted teams struggle" etc etc. 

For me that evidence is in the past and the future has not been written.  The real evidence - for me - is based on the progress that we have made and that we look well placed to have a real good go at the PL this time and have the players/coaches/fitness/organisation etc to potentially do brilliantly well.

Edited by lake district canary

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17th would be a terrific season. Fourth quite clearly isn't going to happen and whilst i'm all for positivity it's simply a ludicrous suggestion that isn't worth debate at this moment in time.

Maybe all our young players will excel in the premier league and that might be enough to grant us a top 10 finish if everything goes in our favour. That is still hugely unlikely. 

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30 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

 I've watched match of the day and seen every week how certain teams are not working hard enough, not well organised enough, poor decision making, etc etc

I would suggest that you can't make much of an accurate assessment of the weaknesses and strengths of the other teams from just watching the 2 or 3 minutes that you see from most games, with a bit of analysis on perhaps 3 games each week.

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This side is better than any we've gone up with since 92.

They have shown an ability to adapt to situations throughout last season and will continue to adapt and survive.    The performance at Leeds where we kept the ball so well despite the pressure and atmosphere demonstrates we have the ability.   They have a spirit most other teams can't match and that's priceless.

They are learning and improved on a continual upward curve last season.    Our young defenders will continue to improve and hence our defence will get better.    We will show that we can keep the ball better than most teams in the Prem.   Sorting out set pieces in attack and defence is crucial but just a matter of detail and practice.     That's easier to put right than improving player ability.

Don't understand why the need for some on here to be negative!      The only reason we will struggle is if we don't get another keeper and a quality forward to support Pukki.

Still 12th or above.    OTBC.

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53 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

I'll go 15th. I think we will get absolutely annihilated in the 4 games at Scousers and Man City but we'll be competitive against everyone else.

That's 6 games 😉

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19 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Yes, it's a fantasy, but imo so is predicting bottom three or 17th or whatever. 

No it isn't. As others have shown based on history a finish in the bottom half is infinitely more likely than a top 4 finish. Again, predict you want but it is entirely disingenuous to pretend that predicting 4th and 16th are both as likely as each other.

21 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

The big danger is that people fall into the trap of thinking we are going to struggle down near the bottom of the table all season, before we even start.

This is not a danger. Fans and players are different things. In fact it would be more dangerous if fans all went into this season expecting top 6 and then got on the back of players when they don't achieve this.

 

22 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Predicting 17th or near is fair enough if that is what you think, but to me it just seems a bit of an easy option to take, like - "Everyone is saying we will struggle so it must be true" or - "The evidence is that promoted teams struggle" etc etc. 

It isn't an easy option, it is an informed option. Claiming looking at historical performance and evidence is the 'easy option' is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. 'Hey, I'm going jump out of that window. I know people will say I can't fly but they're just taking the easy option.'

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21 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

 

Do I really think we will finish 4th?  Probably not, 

... but that's what you said, and people on here respected you enough to debate that with you. 

I can only conclude that you don't deserve that respect, that you shouldn't be taken seriously and that, eventually you will be ignored. 

I don't know if it's attention seeking or just that you're compensating for something but you've gone down in my estimation. 

 

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Anything above 18th would be acceptable on a financial level, but I can't in all honesty predict us grovelling around at the bottom of the table.  Imo the PL is overated with two teams dominating, the rest are there to get pioints off - so pushing towards the top for me. Actually, for me anything below 10th would be a disappointment - I think we are going to be better than quite a few clubs, so I'll say 4th, pushing 3rd. 

Yes, it'll be way too optimistic for most people, but no sense in being timid about what is possible imo. The aim should be to win every game, whoever it is against and with a policy of belief in ourselves, we can do very well. Third place in the PL this season was 72 points and that imo is achievable. 

 

55 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Yes, it's a fantasy, but imo so is predicting bottom three or 17th or whatever. 

The big danger is that people fall into the trap of thinking we are going to struggle down near the bottom of the table all season, before we even start. The media have us as relegation certainties, all other clubs' fans will think the same. But why would we think that when we have so many players that look to be able to rise to PL standard and a style of playing that many have said is already suited to the PL?

Cardiff were nailed on to go down and they did. Fulham spent millions and played a kind of football with a system that should have worked, but without the work rate/organisation to make it work. We are like neither of those teams. We have the players, we have the system, we have the work rate, the coaches, we have stability, we have built without spending millions.....we are way more set up to do well going up, than perhaps any team of the last few years apart from perhaps Wolves.

Do I really think we will finish 4th?  Probably not, but I certainly think that with the way things are at the club, we are set to do well - and yes, just maybe challenging up towards the top of the table.   Predicting 17th or near is fair enough if that is what you think, but to me it just seems a bit of an easy option to take, like - "Everyone is saying we will struggle so it must be true" or - "The evidence is that promoted teams struggle" etc etc. 

For me that evidence is in the past and the future has not been written.  The real evidence - for me - is based on the progress that we have made and that we look well placed to have a real good go at the PL this time and have the players/coaches/fitness/organisation etc to potentially do brilliantly well.

Well which is it? Will we finish 4th or not?

That pesky evidence, getting in the way.

Its fantasy to suggest we could come in Top4 (500/1) and same fantasy to suggest we are relegated (Evens)?

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

No. That is just a cop out kind of reply.  My opinions are always going to be positive in response to rampant negativity or people assuming we are going to struggle when the evidence of how we play and the kind of players we have suggests we will hold our own.  I've watched match of the day and seen every week how certain teams are not working hard enough, not well organised enough, poor decision making, etc etc and we will be better in many areas than some of those teams and have imo plenty of players of premier league calibre. Why the heck shouldn't we do ok?  

4th is a long shot, I'll admit, but it's no more positive than thinking we will be rolling around at the bottom is negative.

Also, contrary to what Fuzzar says, I don't think I did predict us finishing top last season, I predicted play offs. But during last season the mood was so negative after the Ipswich away game that I predicted we would come good and win the next few games....and we won four and drew one, setting us on the way to top.   

People will always rebel against positivity when it is seen as being the opposite of what they think, but sometimes, negativity needs to be faced up to otherwise it can set in.  Thankfully the team/squad/coach seem to be immune from getting negative when things get tough.....another reason why I think we will do ok next season.

 

Why would people rebel against your positivity? We want you to be right.

However every single stat, our spending power, our squad and any rationale you use, says that anything above 18th is a fantastic season.

To add,

Had Leeds gone up and one of their Waccoers had been posting that they they'd break the top4, we'd all be in hysterics.

Edited by CDMullins

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

The big danger is that people fall into the trap of thinking we are going to struggle down near the bottom of the table all season, before we even start. The media have us as relegation certainties, all other clubs' fans will think the same. But why would we think that when we have so many players that look to be able to rise to PL standard and a style of playing that many have said is already suited to the PL?

The messageboards of every Premier League club will have had a similar question posted on them. With the exception of fans of Liverpool and Man City, who will be contemplating whether they will finish 1st or 2nd, the rest will have very differing opinions of where they will finish. If you think that negative opinions have an effect on players, then the negative opinions of other fans will have an effect on their players too-which will counteract the negative effect on our players, which will mean that the negative opinions don't actually have an effect!

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13 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

The messageboards of every Premier League club will have had a similar question posted on them. With the exception of fans of Liverpool and Man City, who will be contemplating whether they will finish 1st or 2nd, the rest will have very differing opinions of where they will finish. If you think that negative opinions have an effect on players, then the negative opinions of other fans will have an effect on their players too-which will counteract the negative effect on our players, which will mean that the negative opinions don't actually have an effect!

LDC has intense delusions of grandeur and seems to believe he has some divine purpose to balance out the prevailing mood of this message board in case it somehow affects the players. Basically it's like he's a **** jedi.

But as HHS says he's harmless.

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2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

4th is a long shot, I'll admit, but it's no more positive than thinking we will be rolling around at the bottom is negative.

The optimist has their head held up so high as to focus intently on the sky, the pessimist has their gaze focussed on the ground and cant see ahead whereas the realist stares straight ahead on the path intended.

I don't think it's all that fair to state anyone who thinks we'll finish bottom half if negative. Just a likely outcome.

To dismiss the top 6 as flippantly as you did is just... well... a bit silly. You know deep deep down they're phenomenal teams despite one or two having, in their eyes anyway, a poor season.

I admire your rosy outlook on stuff I really do, I think you're right to be positive on some fronts but to stump up and say we'll break top 6 you either been honking some bone dust or not all your dogs be barking!

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Dear oh dear, you people love getting your knickers in a twist.  So I predict success rather than survival. Yeah, that's a very uncool thing to do, much better to think we will do well to get 17th place than to actually aim for something higher. The bottom line is that 17th would mean a successful season, but not a particularly satisfying one.

I would rather aim higher, try and think that we could actually break into at least the top half of the table. I don't want to approach next season with the idea that survival represents success. It does up to a point, but I want something more.

So the thread asked for predictions, I gave one. It doesn't matter if I said 4th 5th 6th or whatever, it would always bring ridicule, but I will never predict failure or predict or the lowest possible version of success. For me, we are capable of getting quite high up the table and that should be the aim next season.

If you are aiming for near the bottom of the table or think that is where we will end up, then that is up to you, I will happily and if you like, deludedly, go into next season thinking we can challenge the top of the table. 

Good luck with your predictions, I hope you will wish me luck with mine.

OTBC

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7 hours ago, Fiery Zac said:

I would never have predicted we would win the championship so have no clue what will happen next season.

But that’s just how I want it. I can’t wait to see how the young uns continue to develop and look forward to the adulation they get on MoTD they so richly deserve. I can’t wait to see how Pukki copes with the step up but fully expect him to keep scoring with the chances we all know we can create...against anyone. I can’t wait to see our newly crowned midfield magician Buendía light up the PL and have as good an impact as Madders has had this season. I can’t wait for Stiepermann to bamboozle the very top clubs in the game with his awkward ‘I look like I can’t play football (or any sport) but I’m actually really good....look I’ve just gone past you and scored’ style and more importantly, his celebrations. I can’t wait for Krul to continue to prove city fans wrong. I can’t wait for Mayor Kenny to continue to prove me wrong. I can’t wait for Onel to scare full backs s*****ss and then lose the ball. I can’t wait for Mario to get his chance to be an automatic pick in our starting 11. I can’t wait for our new signings to look like they’ve played for us forever and seamlessly slot into our setup. I can’t wait to see the next phase of the Barclay flags and rightly grace the biggest stage. I can’t wait for Farke to say ‘big compliments to the lads’ again.

To sum up....I can’t wait 😊

 

I’m going to enjoy whatever happens and trust in Webber and Farke that we will give it as good a go as possible in the PL.

 

 

 

 

(Fence sitting at its finest)

I’ll have a pint of what he’s drinking!

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5 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Dear oh dear, you people love getting your knickers in a twist.  So I predict success rather than survival. Yeah, that's a very uncool thing to do, much better to think we will do well to get 17th place than to actually aim for something higher. The bottom line is that 17th would mean a successful season, but not a particularly satisfying one.

I would rather aim higher, try and think that we could actually break into at least the top half of the table. I don't want to approach next season with the idea that survival represents success. It does up to a point, but I want something more.

So the thread asked for predictions, I gave one. It doesn't matter if I said 4th 5th 6th or whatever, it would always bring ridicule, but I will never predict failure or predict or the lowest possible version of success. For me, we are capable of getting quite high up the table and that should be the aim next season.

If you are aiming for near the bottom of the table or think that is where we will end up, then that is up to you, I will happily and if you like, deludedly, go into next season thinking we can challenge the top of the table. 

Good luck with your predictions, I hope you will wish me luck with mine.

OTBC

"To predict is usu. to foretell with precision of calculation, knowledge, or shrewd inference from facts or experience".

If the OP had asked "Where do you want us to finish" I'm pretty sure that everyone would say they wanted us to finish top.

But he didn't, he asked us to predict where we think we will finish.

 

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Half Ar5ed Hipster said:

The optimist has their head held up so high as to focus intently on the sky, the pessimist has their gaze focussed on the ground and cant see ahead whereas the realist stares straight ahead on the path intended.

I don't think it's all that fair to state anyone who thinks we'll finish bottom half if negative. Just a likely outcome.

To dismiss the top 6 as flippantly as you did is just... well... a bit silly. You know deep deep down they're phenomenal teams despite one or two having, in their eyes anyway, a poor season.

I admire your rosy outlook on stuff I really do, I think you're right to be positive on some fronts but to stump up and say we'll break top 6 you either been honking some bone dust or not all your dogs be barking!

I would agree that a top six finish is somewhat optimistic and even outlandish, were it not for the fact that beyond all comprehension, Leicester actually won the Premiere League. Who saw that coming?

So why should we not believe that we can do something just as amazing - which for me, would be finishing in the top six?

 

I’m still sticking with 13th.

Edited by CirclePoint

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32 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Dear oh dear, you people love getting your knickers in a twist.  So I predict success rather than survival. Yeah, that's a very uncool thing to do, much better to think we will do well to get 17th place than to actually aim for something higher. The bottom line is that 17th would mean a successful season, but not a particularly satisfying one.

I would rather aim higher, try and think that we could actually break into at least the top half of the table. I don't want to approach next season with the idea that survival represents success. It does up to a point, but I want something more.

So the thread asked for predictions, I gave one. It doesn't matter if I said 4th 5th 6th or whatever, it would always bring ridicule, but I will never predict failure or predict or the lowest possible version of success. For me, we are capable of getting quite high up the table and that should be the aim next season.

If you are aiming for near the bottom of the table or think that is where we will end up, then that is up to you, I will happily and if you like, deludedly, go into next season thinking we can challenge the top of the table. 

Good luck with your predictions, I hope you will wish me luck with mine.

OTBC

I'm sometimes slightly scared that you actually believe you're part of the team or in the squad and what you say on here or shout and your TV in Cumbria somehow affects the players.

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39 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm sometimes slightly scared that you actually believe you're part of the team or in the squad and what you say on here or shout and your TV in Cumbria somehow affects the players.

I actually believe that what fans say or do has a direct relevance to what happens within a football club and on the pitch.  Fans talk to each other and on social media and the mood amongst a fanbase can be affected by the bandwagon effect of that. That spills over into games. Also, players and managers (Alex Neil comes to mind) have commented about how fans can change games, how if they are nervous it can affect players etc etc. 

So fans do have an effect and social media is a big part of that these days.  As for being part of the team/squad, my attitude is that we are all in it together, players, staff, fans, the whole lot of us. 

I may have been a bit stupid predicting 4th, but whenever anyone asks me about how I think we'll do next season I say to them I think we are going to do well and surprise people. I may be the only one who thinks that, but whatever......  

Aim high, that is my outlook and as Webber talked about, Everest awaits - and we climbed it once, maybe we can do it again - we certainly caused a stir amongst all the "experts" last season, it would be great to do it again. 

Actually quite looking forwards to seeing messrs Lineker and Shearer eating their predictions - and Ian Wright trying desperately to cover up the fact he doesn't know who any of our players are as we climb the table.

 

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4 hours ago, splendidrush said:
4 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Do I really think we will finish 4th?  Probably not, 

... but that's what you said, and people on here respected you enough to debate that with you. I can only conclude that you don't deserve that respect, that you shouldn't be taken seriously and that, eventually you will be ignored.  I don't know if it's attention seeking or just that you're compensating for something but you've gone down in my estimation. 

I have to reply to this.  The op asked for a prediction and I gave it, but I don't think a prediction has to be cast in stone...why should it?   Yes, I think we can do really well and I've been waiting for years to see a club with lesser resources mixing it in the top six and I really feel we have the kind of players/set up/momentum to have an impact next season. So 4th...why not, but when I said "probably not" to that, I only meant it could be 5th or 6th, or somewhere in that region, so it wasn't as if I wasn't serious about finishing near the top.

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10 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I have to reply to this.  The op asked for a prediction and I gave it, but I don't think a prediction has to be cast in stone...why should it?   Yes, I think we can do really well and I've been waiting for years to see a club with lesser resources mixing it in the top six and I really feel we have the kind of players/set up/momentum to have an impact next season. So 4th...why not, but when I said "probably not" to that, I only meant it could be 5th or 6th, or somewhere in that region, so it wasn't as if I wasn't serious about finishing near the top.

Well that paragraph cleared everything up....

Nurse! 🤪

OTBC

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58 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I actually believe that what fans say or do has a direct relevance to what happens within a football club and on the pitch.  Fans talk to each other and on social media and the mood amongst a fanbase can be affected by the bandwagon effect of that. That spills over into games. Also, players and managers (Alex Neil comes to mind) have commented about how fans can change games, how if they are nervous it can affect players etc etc. 

So fans do have an effect and social media is a big part of that these days.  As for being part of the team/squad, my attitude is that we are all in it together, players, staff, fans, the whole lot of us. 

I may have been a bit stupid predicting 4th, but whenever anyone asks me about how I think we'll do next season I say to them I think we are going to do well and surprise people. I may be the only one who thinks that, but whatever......  

Aim high, that is my outlook and as Webber talked about, Everest awaits - and we climbed it once, maybe we can do it again - we certainly caused a stir amongst all the "experts" last season, it would be great to do it again. 

Actually quite looking forwards to seeing messrs Lineker and Shearer eating their predictions - and Ian Wright trying desperately to cover up the fact he doesn't know who any of our players are as we climb the table.

 

To be honest I think the main place you've gone wrong on this thread is accusing people of being negative.

In my opinion a prediction of 16th is a pretty positive few on a team with one of the lowest budgets in the league.

I think most people would take a look at this thread and take the overwhelming view of our fanbase as positive ahead of the season.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

I actually believe that what fans say or do has a direct relevance to what happens within a football club and on the pitch.  Fans talk to each other and on social media and the mood amongst a fanbase can be affected by the bandwagon effect of that. That spills over into games. Also, players and managers (Alex Neil comes to mind) have commented about how fans can change games, how if they are nervous it can affect players etc etc. 

So fans do have an effect and social media is a big part of that these days.  As for being part of the team/squad, my attitude is that we are all in it together, players, staff, fans, the whole lot of us. 

I may have been a bit stupid predicting 4th, but whenever anyone asks me about how I think we'll do next season I say to them I think we are going to do well and surprise people. I may be the only one who thinks that, but whatever......  

Aim high, that is my outlook and as Webber talked about, Everest awaits - and we climbed it once, maybe we can do it again - we certainly caused a stir amongst all the "experts" last season, it would be great to do it again. 

Actually quite looking forwards to seeing messrs Lineker and Shearer eating their predictions - and Ian Wright trying desperately to cover up the fact he doesn't know who any of our players are as we climb the table.

 

As I said before-some fans of other clubs will also be predicting that they will struggle, so unless you think that only our players will be affected by this, it makes no difference.

And have you noticed how dangerous mountain climbing is these days? 😝

Agree about Wrighty too-his lack of knowledge about players outside of the top 6 clubs is embarrassing .

Edited by Mr Angry
Added comments about **** Ian Wright

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1 minute ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

Why do so many threads become revolve around the same person? 😴😐😴

I remember when it was two people 😳😳😳

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25 minutes ago, king canary said:

To be honest I think the main place you've gone wrong on this thread is accusing people of being negative. 

In my opinion a prediction of 16th is a pretty positive few on a team with one of the lowest budgets in the league.

I think most people would take a look at this thread and take the overwhelming view of our fanbase as positive ahead of the season.

I can agree that predicting us staying up is positive in itself, but the majority view seems to be we will only just stay up, but if you look at the PL table during the season the distance between 8th and bottom is often quite close, meaning that you only need a small good run to put you near the top of that group.  My feeling is that we will put a good run together at some point which will lift us up in that group. If we are near the top of the group behind the top eight, then the next stage is obviously to challenge those above.

What do people think will happen? Probably a relegation fight all season, well if that is the case, so be it - it is plainly going to be another rollercoaster season, however it turns out, but I'll be a bit disappointed if we finish low down in 15th/16th/17th and obviously even more disappointed if it is lower than that.

We should aim high, we should attack every game as if we can win it - even to Man City and Liverpool.  We will imo play to win - and that will be enough to put the cat among the pigeons, even at the top clubs. 4th may look a long shot - and it is - but I could have gone further and said we will be so good that we can win the PL.....now I wonder how that prediction would have looked at Leicester at the start of their PL winning season.....

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Have to agree with the op, i think we will do better than the pundits predict for us, around 12th place is a reasonable target for me, if we get the signings that Webber goes after hard to argue against us being the surprise package.

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