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All, 

honest question. Can Jordan Rhodes buy himeself out of the last year of his contract and become a free agent? If so is this not a way round the transfer fee of £7m

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5 minutes ago, Big O said:

All, 

honest question. Can Jordan Rhodes buy himeself out of the last year of his contract and become a free agent? If so is this not a way round the transfer fee of £7m

I suppose he could, but why would he? To be honest, I think Norwich is in the wrong here. They entered into a loan deal with an agreed price of 7 million quid to buy at the end, and that was agreed when most people would have expected us to be starting next season in the Championship. Now we're saying we'd like him, but not at the price we'd already agreed to? I think it's shameful to be honest. 

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Shameful? They probably set a notional fee knowing if we were in the champ again we wouldnt be able to afford him anyway.

Theres nothing shameful about it and at the end of the day its completely up to Wednesday what they do - I hazard a guess they dont want to keep shelling out 40k a week on him though.

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13 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I suppose he could, but why would he? To be honest, I think Norwich is in the wrong here. They entered into a loan deal with an agreed price of 7 million quid to buy at the end, and that was agreed when most people would have expected us to be starting next season in the Championship. Now we're saying we'd like him, but not at the price we'd already agreed to? I think it's shameful to be honest. 

I assume because he would like to come here. If he bought his final year out for roughly £2m, we would surely pay him that to sign on. I was more just wondering if he was allowed to? 

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14 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I suppose he could, but why would he? To be honest, I think Norwich is in the wrong here. They entered into a loan deal with an agreed price of 7 million quid to buy at the end, and that was agreed when most people would have expected us to be starting next season in the Championship. Now we're saying we'd like him, but not at the price we'd already agreed to? I think it's shameful to be honest. 

What a bunch of nonsense. It's a £7m 'option.'

He came in expected to be our number one striker and ended up a bench warmer.

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13 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I suppose he could, but why would he? To be honest, I think Norwich is in the wrong here. They entered into a loan deal with an agreed price of 7 million quid to buy at the end, and that was agreed when most people would have expected us to be starting next season in the Championship. Now we're saying we'd like him, but not at the price we'd already agreed to? I think it's shameful to be honest. 

I'm not sure that's how it works. The £7 million is a price agreed by both clubs if they wish to buy/sell the player at the end of the loan. Either club can decide against that deal if they so wish. It's not cast in stone as circumstances change, such as the massive success of Pukki and our promotion. Both I would suggest rather unexpected. 

The same would go for Oliveria at Reading. They have a deal agreed with us apparently but my bet is that there could be a reevaluation now that we have gone up. Not least from the player himself.

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Players can’t ‘buy themselves out’ of their contracts. If they could this would be the way the majority of transfers happen. 

If Rhodes and Sheff W agree, they can mutually terminate his contract. But they aren’t likely to do that. 

The £7m was an ‘option’ as King Canary says, Sheff W can’t back out of it - but Norwich and Rhodes himself don’t have to take that option.  If it was an agreed fixed fee, then Norwich wouldn’t be able to get out of it. Pretty common for clubs to haggle on option prices. 

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The £7m fee would have been on the assumption that he was a primary reason for any promotion. The further corollary likelihood would have been that he would have scored lots of goals and played lots of games. 

Ironically we have been promoted and scored lots of goals, though - whilst a good component - his direct contribution has not been as significant as would have been envisaged by either party when arriving at the £7m figure. 

Given these particular circumstances it is entirely reasonable that a revision of the position is undertaken. Discussions will no doubt be as amicable as they ever are, as both sides have a reasonable case and the answer is framed already between £7m and £0m.

Parma

 

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He's only done two years of his Sheffield Wednesday contract, otherwise he could have invoked the Webster Ruling (though given the legal costs around triggering it, probably not the wisest of ideas)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster_ruling

Specifically, it states that any player who signed a contract before the age of 28 can buy himself out of the contract three years after the deal was signed. 

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With Roberts here and Pukki, allowing Rhodes to go back probably tells you all you need to know about any deal, had there been an agreement surely he’d still be here and tied up by now?

 

I don’t think we’ll see him back in a City shirt.

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

What a bunch of nonsense. It's a £7m 'option.'

He came in expected to be our number one striker and ended up a bench warmer.

You have to be the most obnoxious so and so on here, you know that?

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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7 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You have to be the most obnoxious so and so on here, you know that?

I'm very sorry if me calling your nonsense nonsense upset you.

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2 hours ago, Big O said:

All, 

honest question. Can Jordan Rhodes buy himeself out of the last year of his contract and become a free agent? If so is this not a way round the transfer fee of £7m

Two main reasons “buying yourself out” of a football contract won’t work - sporting sanctions and compensation payable to the club the player leaves.

On the first, FIFA can impose sporting sanctions on both the player and any club he moves to afterwards.

This will be a 4 month (6 month if there are “aggravating circumstances”) ban for the player. Any club who signs a player who has terminated his contract will be deemed to have induced that player to terminate and the club could face a two window transfer ban. 

On the second point, the financial part of “buying out” isn’t straightforward. The Webster case (which Icecream Snow mentioned) has been superseded by two more recent cases which have widened the potential compensation payable, so it’s not really clear exactly how much you might have to pay to the club - which means it’s risky!

Webster suggested compensation payable to the club would simply be a matter of calculating the wages left on the contract. However, two cases have changed that somewhat (Matuzalem, Lassana Diarra). Matuzalem even suggested the loss of a transfer fee could be factored in to potential damages payable to the club. Usual breach of contract law for the relevant country could also be factored in, so you could end up in an argument about the value of what the club has lost (ie: image rights, agents fees, shirt sales, performance of that player on the pitch, potential transfer fee etc.). As an example, Matuzalem/his new club were required to pay just under €12million to Shakhtar despite him having two years left on his contract and a salary of less than €1mil per annum.

There isn’t any clear definitive way of calculating the amount you would have to pay to “buy yourself out” of a contract so when mixed with the potential sporting ban as well, most players probably take the view it’s not worth it!

Edited by Aggy

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2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I suppose he could, but why would he? To be honest, I think Norwich is in the wrong here. They entered into a loan deal with an agreed price of 7 million quid to buy at the end, and that was agreed when most people would have expected us to be starting next season in the Championship. Now we're saying we'd like him, but not at the price we'd already agreed to? I think it's shameful to be honest. 

Do you work in the public sector? 😂

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I start with the idea that it would be good to keep Rhodes in the camp if we can at reasonable cost and with comparable wages to the group.

However, whatever we agreed (with Sheff Wed) a year ago has no bearing on where we are now so I don't think we should be bound by what was agreed then.  As has been stated, at that time we expected JR to assume a more prominent role and, in fact, he has been a peripheral (albeit constructive & positive) member to the starting XI.

Therefore a modest fee and a reduced salary are entirely in keeping with where JR stands vis-a-vis the first XI and with the increased demands of the Premier League and his lack of track record in that regard.

 

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9 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Not as sorry as I am about your poor communication skills. 

Being as you called the club attempting to negotiate a transfer fee as 'shameful' I'm not sure you're in a great place to comment.

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7 hours ago, king canary said:

Being as you called the club attempting to negotiate a transfer fee as 'shameful' I'm not sure you're in a great place to comment.

Perfectly appropriate word when you attempt to renegotiate (note the difference in meaning in contrast to 'negotiate', which you have used here) a previously agreed figure. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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6 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Perfectly appropriate word when you attempt to renegotiate (note the difference in meaning in contrast to 'negotiate', which you have used here) a previously agreed figure. 

Only if you don't fundamentally understand the idea of an 'option.' 

We have an 'option' to buy him for £7m. I might agree if we'd agreed that we would sign him and tried to pull out. However that isn't what was agreed.

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Who cares? £7 million is too much for a player who will sit on the bench. I presume the very fact we suggested that we'd buy him was something that helped us secure the loan deal, though. It would have also been something Sheff Weds could tell the media so it didn't look as though they were simply loaning to a competitor without any thought. We're not tied into anything.

Jordan is a great character but Sheff Weds valuation of a 29 year old, in the last year of his contract, is way out of line.

Let's move on. We can likely get better for that sort of money (sorry Jordan)

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£7m is way too much, but at 3m or 3.5m he would be a good value player to have on the books, even if he hardly gets a game. He would be useful if called upon as he was against Villa and other occasions where he made a positive contribution. The way our team plays we create chances and if we do that he will put them away. That it is the PL is irrelevant imo - create good chances and he will score.

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18 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You have to be the most obnoxious so and so on here, you know that?

Bloody hell, i've got off lightly for once.

Unlucky King.

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59 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

£7m is way too much, but at 3m or 3.5m he would be a good value player to have on the books, even if he hardly gets a game. He would be useful if called upon as he was against Villa and other occasions where he made a positive contribution. The way our team plays we create chances and if we do that he will put them away. That it is the PL is irrelevant imo - create good chances and he will score.

Whilst I like Jordan and concur with general sentiment the reality is the fact it's the PL is entirely relevant - everything is more difficult. Even if we continue to create chances Jordans movement will be better tracked by better defenders. And so on and so on.

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6 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Bloody hell, i've got off lightly for once.

Unlucky King.

I'm OK with it.

Might use it as an excuse to go all Ipswich and put a star on my shirt.

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Just now, hogesar said:

Whilst I like Jordan and concur with general sentiment the reality is the fact it's the PL is entirely relevant - everything is more difficult. Even if we continue to create chances Jordans movement will be better tracked by better defenders. And so on and so on.

What is the alternative?  We need probably four strikers, so how do we keep a player happy who will maybe not get any games, but we know would not be overawed if he was called upon?  I've just been reading about Rob green and his role as a goalkeeper who never got any games - he said he knew the score when he went to Chelsea, knew what his role was in helping the other players, knew that if called upon he could do a job, etc etc. That seems to me to be what Jordan Rhodes could do if needed and if he was willing to come to Norwich and not be first choice, which he would not be.

I see a scenario where we get another striker in to compete with Pukki, get a young 3rd striker in - maybe Idah to step up - and a fourth striker.  That fourth could be Srbeny I suppose, he is already on our books and he does offer something a bit different, but on balance, I would think Jordan Rhodes would be a useful player to have in reserve...not at 7m obviously, but around £3m doesn't seem excessive.

The one thing that is sure - we will need at least four strikers on our books - but we will not have four premier league standard strikers. At least one if not two will have to be lesser lights who may be able to step up if injury/suspension calls for it.  On those grounds, Rhodes, given he fits all the other criteria of buying intio the club etc, seems to be a sensible idea at the right price.

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All well and good but Wednesday aren't going to sell for £3 million are they?

I would like him to be here, the reasons mentioned are my thoughts too. I just can't see it happening now.

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3 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

What is the alternative?  We need probably four strikers, so how do we keep a player happy who will maybe not get any games, but we know would not be overawed if he was called upon?  I've just been reading about Rob green and his role as a goalkeeper who never got any games - he said he knew the score when he went to Chelsea, knew what his role was in helping the other players, knew that if called upon he could do a job, etc etc. That seems to me to be what Jordan Rhodes could do if needed and if he was willing to come to Norwich and not be first choice, which he would not be.

I see a scenario where we get another striker in to compete with Pukki, get a young 3rd striker in - maybe Idah to step up - and a fourth striker.  That fourth could be Srbeny I suppose, he is already on our books and he does offer something a bit different, but on balance, I would think Jordan Rhodes would be a useful player to have in reserve...not at 7m obviously, but around £3m doesn't seem excessive.

The one thing that is sure - we will need at least four strikers on our books - but we will not have four premier league standard strikers. At least one if not two will have to be lesser lights who may be able to step up if injury/suspension calls for it.  On those grounds, Rhodes, given he fits all the other criteria of buying intio the club etc, seems to be a sensible idea at the right price.

Really don’t need 4 strikers. Norwich play with one striker, so 3 is the maximum the squad needs. Could even get away with 2 dedicated strikers and a 3rd who covers other positions. 

If you are saying Rhodes is only good enough for 4th choice than £3m is way too much - especially when you have to start negotiations with him on getting him down from £40k a week. 

It makes no footballing or economic sense to spend £3m on a player who is around to be a good guy but will never get minutes on the pitch (which a 4th choice striker wouldn’t). There is just about an argument for having him 3rd choice, if they can get the price right down. But I just don’t think Rhodes playing style and abilities will mean he can add a lot in the Premier League. 

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23 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Really don’t need 4 strikers. Norwich play with one striker, so 3 is the maximum the squad needs.

That seems a bit unrealistic to me.  We have had Pukki and Rhodes on the pitch at the same time at various times this season, usually when chasing a game - and we are quite likely to have to do that more next season. So with two strikers more often going to be needed on the pitch, to have just one other striker looks a bit thin, with possible injuries/suspensions.

Would you go into a season with just three centre backs in the squad when two are needed each match?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

That seems a bit unrealistic to me.  We have had Pukki and Rhodes on the pitch at the same time at various times this season, usually when chasing a game - and we are quite likely to have to do that more next season. So with two strikers more often going to be needed on the pitch, to have just one other striker looks a bit thin, with possible injuries/suspensions.

Would you go into a season with just three centre backs in the squad when two are needed each match?

 

 

We literally just won the title with 3 strikers.

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