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Posted (edited)

£20 million?? Suddenly the player from Turkey seems like a bargain.

Gayle would do a job and would seemingly score goals in any environment but the thought of signing him doesn't really excite me, at least not the way it would have done a couple of years ago.

Diagne, although probably more of a risk, does.

Perhaps I am spoiled by the trend that has developed in recent times of us signing relative unknowns from foreign lands, like Buendia and Hernandez and turning them into the success stories the way that we have.

 

Edited by BroadstairsR

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8 minutes ago, Chelm Canary said:

apparently Newcastle want 20 million. https://readnorwich.com/2019/05/29/newcastle-want-20m-for-norwich-target-dwight-gayle/

that's that then.

They can want a moon on a stick, but they aren’t going to get it. 

Considering Newcastle were going to use Gayle as a make weight in the transfer for Rondon, who has a £16.5m release clause, they can’t actually value him at £20m. 

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Did I read somewhere that Newcastle wanted £20 million for him! So not on our budget.

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Just now, Felixfan said:

Did I read somewhere that Newcastle wanted £20 million for him! So not on our budget.

Yep, at the top of this page 😉 

  • Haha 2

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Wow so they want 20 million for a 29 year old championship striker, what does that make Pukki worth as he was top scorer in a team which on paper shouldn’t have been as good as WBA! 25 million?

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The main reservations that persist with this player are his age at 28 which means there is unlikely to be a resale value, his Premiership wages and the fact that on two occasions he has failed to score at more than a goal every 5 games in the Prem. This makes him an 8 goal per season striker in the Prem. Maybe that is why he’s on loan in the champ and not playing for Newcastle. 

I like him as a player and he can play wide too but unless we get him for buttons or on a loan this rumour is unlikely to come to pass. He could suit our style of play as he is a clever player with an acute sense of what is going on around him but he lacks some of the physical attributes of Prem strikers. He’s not big, he’s got reasonable pace but not much more so than most average Prem full backs. So in the Championship he enjoys a lot more time and space and is a prolific goal scorer. 

He’s not worth 10+ million. Not to us. Maybe to someone want promotion from the Championship, he is worth that sort of money. Football wise he has some merits but financially a big transfer fee and several million in wages make him an expensive option.

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Bonzo - The problem with stats is that they can mislead - for instance, how many games has he played as an out-and-out striker in the PL?  Appearances will also include coming on as a sub.  

Grant Holt was the same age and a bit of a ‘journeyman’ who we were told couldn’t cut it in the Champs and then in the PL, both assumptions were wrong.

This time last year plenty told us that Pukki wasn’t much cop, but he won a raft of awards and a golden boot.

The point is Gayle has been regarded as a Champs player for so long but may be worth a go - he has a lot to prove.  If DF/SW think it’s worth it I’ll go along with them!

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Posted (edited)

Gayle would be a good signing...but I’d be very surprised if it materialises as Newcastle will want too much for him. If we are to believe that we have £20mill to spend I can’t see us signing one player for £10mill +....

That said I think we probably have more than the £20mill to spend that Webber has stayed. It wouldn’t exactly be a good buying policy to come out and say ‘We’re going to spend £xx mill’...but what do I know?! 

Edited by zema abbey football genius

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2 minutes ago, zema abbey football genius said:

Gayle would be a good signing...but I’d be very surprised if it materialises as Newcastle will want too much for him. If we are to believe that we have £20mill to spend I can’t see us signing one player for £10mill +....

That said I think we probably have more than the £20mill to spend that Webber has stayed. It wouldn’t exactly be a good buying policy to come out and say ‘We’re going to spend £xx mill’...but what do I know?! 

Webber never said the £20m figure. It was in the Daily Mail (who also say Norwich want Joe Hart), so I wouldn’t believe it for a second. 

As I said earlier Newcastle were prepared to use Gayle as a makeweight for Rondon, who’s price is £16.5m. There was also talk of Newcastle swapping both Murphy abs Gayle, plus some cash for Rondon. 

I suspect Newcastle would actually take quite a low offer for Gayle (£5m/£6m). If Gayle digs in and says he’ll only go to a Premier League club then Newcastle might have to accept even less as realistically only Norwich and Sheff U would consider him an option. 

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Posted (edited)

"Webber never said the £20m figure. It was in the Daily Mail,  so I wouldn’t believe it for a second." 

Yet repeated by Mark Armstrong @ Archant when discussing the viability of a Gayle signing:-

 

"City have a small budget of around £20m this summer but are willing to spend a fair chunk of this on another striker to challenge Teemu Pukki for a starting berth."

Difficult to know what to believe and discover where exactly this figure came from. It wasn't thin air.

One thing is probably for sure, it is not a figure set in stone and it will likely be breached if circumstances dictate.

Edited by BroadstairsR

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Posted (edited)

Gayle, 123 minutes per goal this season. 

Rhodes, 133 minutes per goal this season. 

One knows the club, is cheaper and won't get moany about a lack of minutes. 

Doubt our new shrewd setup will have overlooked this, even if many here have. 

And I thought the £20 million figure was only mentioned when Webber said we wouldn't be spending that on "a player". Could be wrong. 

Edited by canarydan23

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27 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Gayle, 123 minutes per goal this season. 

Rhodes, 133 minutes per goal this season

Whoscored has Rhodes scoring 6 goals in 1017 minutes- a goal every 170 minutes.

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Yeah a hat trick against a League One club slightly warps the numbers but there really is no comparison.

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Goals are goals. 

And Gayle got a hatrick against a team now in League One, too. 

My point is that if we're talking £10 million plus, he'd need to be much, much better than Rhodes than Gayle is. 

For sure, if they both cost the same in fee and wages you'd probably go Gayle, so long as Farke is convinced he won't disrupt things if Pukki keeps his spot. But it's my opinion that Rhodes is the better option, all things considered. 

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5 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Goals are goals. 

And Gayle got a hatrick against a team now in League One, too. 

My point is that if we're talking £10 million plus, he'd need to be much, much better than Rhodes than Gayle is. 

For sure, if they both cost the same in fee and wages you'd probably go Gayle, so long as Farke is convinced he won't disrupt things if Pukki keeps his spot. But it's my opinion that Rhodes is the better option, all things considered. 

Gayle is quite a bit better than Rhodes. He's got 53 league goals in the last three seasons while Rhodes has got 14, despite Gayle spending one of those seasons in the top flight.

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He's played a lot more too. And is unlikely to settle for one of those comfortable seats Premier League clubs have in their dugout. 

We've a severely limited budget; spending a massive chunk of it on someone we hope will be second fiddle to Pukki and who averages a goal every almost seven Premier League games would be remiss, in my humble opinion. 

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

He's played a lot more too. And is unlikely to settle for one of those comfortable seats Premier League clubs have in their dugout. 

Yes, the fact Rhodes hasn't been picked is hardly a ringing endorsement of his abilities. Gayle's played more because he's better. For me Rhodes is a mid level Championship starter/high level Championship back up on the wages of a low level Premier League starter. Gayle is a high level Championship starter/low level Championship squad player.

18 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

We've a severely limited budget; spending a massive chunk of it on someone we hope will be second fiddle to Pukki and who averages a goal every almost seven Premier League games would be remiss, in my humble opinion

Of course the finances have to be right. But I don't doubt if we're serious about adding competition for Pukki then it's going to take up a large % of our budget whoever we sign.

Edited by king canary
typo

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5 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

Bonzo - The problem with stats is that they can mislead - for instance, how many games has he played as an out-and-out striker in the PL?  Appearances will also include coming on as a sub.  

Grant Holt was the same age and a bit of a ‘journeyman’ who we were told couldn’t cut it in the Champs and then in the PL, both assumptions were wrong.

This time last year plenty told us that Pukki wasn’t much cop, but he won a raft of awards and a golden boot.

The point is Gayle has been regarded as a Champs player for so long but may be worth a go - he has a lot to prove.  If DF/SW think it’s worth it I’ll go along with them!

I totally agree Branson, stats do have a context and their context is significant when interpreting them. Gayle is a different prospect to Holt in that he has Prem data available prior to our entry to this league. However for me the difference between Holt and Gayle is more basic. Very basic actually.

One is a big lump that no centre back no matter how good is ever going to bully and who also happens to be a great finisher with head and both feet. The other is a great finisher with head and both feet.

Excepting Pedro and Salah the preponderance of Prem strikers are physically imposing. So maybe that proves your point. Maybe  Gayle has been typecast as a great Championship striker who is lacking believers at managerial level for striking success in the Prem simply because he doesn’t fit a preconceived model. Perhaps if we ignore his previous  Prem stats maybe he’s the perfect moneyball signing. It’s certainly possible. I don’t have access to the data. The only issue that still remains is a practical one - it is going to cost a kings ransom to find out the answer to that question even if the data says you are likely to be right. 

Get it wrong and he has no resale value at the end of his contract. That makes signing him on a permanent basis into a very large and potentially costly gamble to which there isn’t any sort of player trading upside because of his age. So Gayle isn’t moneyball. He might not even be a good enough Prem striker. Any fee for Gayle will have to be entirely written off. If we go with Gayle it should be loan only. 

I’d prefer we just found a younger big fast scary monster with great finishing skills as competition for  Pukki. There must be one out there. Someone who makes centre backs hate their life.

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15 hours ago, Bonzo said:

I totally agree Branson, stats do have a context and their context is significant when interpreting them. Gayle is a different prospect to Holt in that he has Prem data available prior to our entry to this league. However for me the difference between Holt and Gayle is more basic. Very basic actually.

One is a big lump that no centre back no matter how good is ever going to bully and who also happens to be a great finisher with head and both feet. The other is a great finisher with head and both feet.

Excepting Pedro and Salah the preponderance of Prem strikers are physically imposing. So maybe that proves your point. Maybe  Gayle has been typecast as a great Championship striker who is lacking believers at managerial level for striking success in the Prem simply because he doesn’t fit a preconceived model. Perhaps if we ignore his previous  Prem stats maybe he’s the perfect moneyball signing. It’s certainly possible. I don’t have access to the data. The only issue that still remains is a practical one - it is going to cost a kings ransom to find out the answer to that question even if the data says you are likely to be right. 

Get it wrong and he has no resale value at the end of his contract. That makes signing him on a permanent basis into a very large and potentially costly gamble to which there isn’t any sort of player trading upside because of his age. So Gayle isn’t moneyball. He might not even be a good enough Prem striker. Any fee for Gayle will have to be entirely written off. If we go with Gayle it should be loan only. 

I’d prefer we just found a younger big fast scary monster with great finishing skills as competition for  Pukki. There must be one out there. Someone who makes centre backs hate their life.

Wonder what it would take to prise Che Adams away from Brum..?🤔

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1 minute ago, Drazen Muzinic said:

Wonder what it would take to prise Che Adams away from Brum..?🤔

Birmingham rejected £18m for him in January. They would probably take less than that now, but it will be around £15m at least. 

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On 29/05/2019 at 20:07, Fuzzar said:

Gayle at £5-6m would be a great bit of business.

With a max of 25k per week I agree.

If anyone is after more give it a pass.

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On 29/05/2019 at 12:45, Grant Holts Moustache said:

Top quality Championship striker but not quite able to make the jump to Premier League regular. Very much in the Huckerby zone. 

I'd take issue with claiming Huckerby wasn't a Premier League player!

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2 hours ago, Grando said:

I'd take issue with claiming Huckerby wasn't a Premier League player!

Yeah, 201 Premier League appearances, including 38 goals often from midfield/wing, certainly backs you up.

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1 hour ago, canarydan23 said:

Yeah, 201 Premier League appearances, including 38 goals often from midfield/wing, certainly backs you up.

He was a striker for a fair bit of his career. He was great for us but was always considered to be one of those who never quite cut it at the top level before his one season with us in the Premier League.

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1 hour ago, canarydan23 said:

Yeah, 201 Premier League appearances, including 38 goals often from midfield/wing, certainly backs you up.

For context that's in 10 premier league seasons with over 50 of those appearances being as a sub. I would say that backs up that he didn't quite make the jump to being a Premier league regular. 

Don't get me wrong he was great for us but he only dropped down because he wasn't getting regular starts for sometime at that level. 

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