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What price Webber?

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News outlets  = rumor chain, each report “validates” the next ....

it was WJ who commented on Barcelona - Wynn Jones joked when asked if Norwich can hold onto Webber: "I think he's got his eyes on Barcelona!"

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There is no shame in wanting to look good. To do this results and club development have to be attributable to you in a meaningful way. To achieve this it requires clear lines corporate structure  and lines of communication.

These things are now clear at Norwich in a way they are not at all at Manchester United (vid multiple Mourinho comments). 

Even if United are ready to meaningfully change, which I personally doubt they can given their structure and underlying economic drivers, Webber would be unlikely to receive too much direct credit for such a change.

Once you have made money, wearing a nice badge becomes notably secondary to seeing clearly the direct effects of your own hand on events. 

As a club Manchester United is in many ways magnificent. In terms of Webber moving however, the job would need to be significantly different to that proposed on the surface thus far.

Parma 

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1 hour ago, Surfer said:

News outlets  = rumor chain, each report “validates” the next ....

it was WJ who commented on Barcelona - Wynn Jones joked when asked if Norwich can hold onto Webber: "I think he's got his eyes on Barcelona!"

This is true, Surfer, but just look at the Transfer Rumour thread, some of those rumours come from one source and no one else picks up on them, it might just be a single French paper. But the Webber thing is going round nearly all of the nationals, TalkSport etc etc - I’m not normally pessimistic but when it’s getting that much attention then you wonder if there’s no smoke without fire.

Or is just because Man Utd rumours are much more newsworthy than that of Norwich transfer rumours, I dunno?!

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3 hours ago, Alex Moss said:

This is true, Surfer, but just look at the Transfer Rumour thread, some of those rumours come from one source and no one else picks up on them, it might just be a single French paper. But the Webber thing is going round nearly all of the nationals, TalkSport etc etc - I’m not normally pessimistic but when it’s getting that much attention then you wonder if there’s no smoke without fire.

Or is just because Man Utd rumours are much more newsworthy than that of Norwich transfer rumours, I dunno?!

It's because it is Man United. It guarantees clicks and even though they have been supposedly looking at this position for months there has been little to go on. Any rumour will soon gather pace true or not. 

I hope it isn't true as I want to see how far he can take us.

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It's brilliant that players and management are being touted around the top echelons of football. It means we have fantastic people at the club and long may that continue.  Does it mean they will move just because it's "Man Utd". No. There is more to football than Man Utd, especially with the current set up and owners. 

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Posted (edited)

There’s no way Webber will stay if Man Utd are interested, he’s an ambitious guy.

Whether we like it or not, whatever major role Man Utd may be interested in offering him is going to be a bigger role than he has currently, people suggesting otherwise are in denial.

It’s fine, we got him the same way. I actually feel fairly confident when he leaves (and it is a question of when) we will maintain the current setup that has worked.

Edited by Monty13

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8 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

It's brilliant that players and management are being touted around the top echelons of football. It means we have fantastic people at the club and long may that continue.  Does it mean they will move just because it's "Man Utd". No. There is more to football than Man Utd, especially with the current set up and owners.

Love you LDC. I bet you'd be shouting " I needed a bath " as  your lifeboat sank.

  • Haha 5

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 Back on topic though, if Webber is being seen as a root and branch overhaul specialist and man u are serious about rebooting their club, then he could be just the man they need, not afraid to be totally objective about the problems in front of him and how to deal with them.

That said, I really don't want him to leave.

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1 hour ago, Monty13 said:

Whether we like it or not, whatever major role Man Utd may be interested in offering him is going to be a bigger role than he has currently, people suggesting otherwise are in denial.

Not necessarily. From what can gather, he has almost total control over what happens in the Norwich set up - would Man Utd offer him that?  I doubt it very much. 

I think that to get Webber interested, a club would have to recognise it is up sh*t creek without a paddle and want him in as a root and branch overhaul merchant, with virtually no restriction. There are few very big clubs who would ever do that, unless they had really fallen from grace and were at the bottom of league or relegated.  The ambition of the guy isn't the question, it't the level of the challenge and the level of control a club would give him that would get him interested.   Man Utd might offer him a lot of money, but that is about all and I don't think money is his main motivator, otherwise he wouldn't have come to Norwich!

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Posted (edited)

 

Flipping that round LDC, Man Utd are about as close to the big club hitting rock bottom as is likely to be. They’re badly run, paying ridiculous wages for average players, haven’t won anything for ages (by their standards) and this season seem to have really reached a point where they’ve realised ‘something must be done’. 

At pretty much any club larger than us (ie an established regular top half prem club) Webber won’t have as much “control” as he will do here - he’ll have to accept that unless he’s happy being the bloke at a yo-yo type club for the next twenty years. Assuming he does accept that and wants a bigger challenge, Man Utd right now is the sort of challenge I think he probably would fancy - similar to us when he joined here in many ways, just a division higher. 

Edit: although I don’t think they will want him.

Edited by Aggy

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On the plus side it’s ManU. The money will be good. On the downside the role seems confused. Heading a team of ex players to select future players? Nonsense. If Webber takes it they’re all fired to start. Who cares what ex players think. They are not professional analysts or scouts. The job seems like a political gambit by Woodward to distance himself from any continued failure by the club to recruit effectively. He’ll still be pulling the strings though. So, this is a non job. If Webber is to take it he’d have to dictate a structure that suits him. Effectively what he’d be signing up for here though is more than likely just going to be a big heap of politics. A job using a rubber stamp to appear approving of whatever transfers the powers that be decide. It would be a big waste of Webber’s talents no matter how lucrative. 

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Agree with that Bonzo, you put it better than I could, it's why I said 'bad fit' Just can't see Webber being attracted by what's on offer. Yes he's ambitious, he can earn more credit achieving something here than putting his reputation on the line in a job where he has no control. 

I just don't see it.

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At first I was a bit concerned about this as if he were offered a sporting director role at man utd, even not as far reaching as here, then he would take it and anyone who thinks not is being blinded by their support of our club. However, if, as it seems, it is essentially just a head of recruitment where he is just chairing a committee of ex-players then o would be surprised... Though obviously the devil is in the detail and this conjecture is based on one report in the sun being regurgitated as nauseam...

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9 hours ago, Bonzo said:

On the plus side it’s ManU. The money will be good. On the downside the role seems confused. Heading a team of ex players to select future players? Nonsense. If Webber takes it they’re all fired to start. Who cares what ex players think. They are not professional analysts or scouts. The job seems like a political gambit by Woodward to distance himself from any continued failure by the club to recruit effectively. He’ll still be pulling the strings though. So, this is a non job. If Webber is to take it he’d have to dictate a structure that suits him. Effectively what he’d be signing up for here though is more than likely just going to be a big heap of politics. A job using a rubber stamp to appear approving of whatever transfers the powers that be decide. It would be a big waste of Webber’s talents no matter how lucrative. 

I suspect you are right here. 

DW is a man hugely confident in his own ability and knows when the time is right for him, he will move on. But right now at ManU it looks risky for DW.

However, a month down the line with a change of strategical thinking there and including some chance of having a relevant role in direction (without the ex-player obstruction), he could be on his way.

My thoughts are that he will be staying here this season as a minimum. For various reasons. Not least there are bigger fish out there for the likes of them.

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You'd have to be wearing the thickest of yellow and green tinted glasses to think Webber (a young, forceful and highly ambitious guy) is turning down Man U for us. Even if the role doesn't have the same scope he will be aware that it could either progress into something bigger or help put him on the radar or other big clubs in a couple of years time.

He mentioned with the Maddison deal he wasn't used to working with such big sums. If he goes to Man U that becomes the norm which helps fill gaps in his CV to make him more attractive for a full sporting director role at a top level club.

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13 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Not necessarily. From what can gather, he has almost total control over what happens in the Norwich set up - would Man Utd offer him that?  I doubt it very much

I think that to get Webber interested, a club would have to recognise it is up sh*t creek without a paddle and want him in as a root and branch overhaul merchant, with virtually no restriction. There are few very big clubs who would ever do that, unless they had really fallen from grace and were at the bottom of league or relegated.  The ambition of the guy isn't the question, it't the level of the challenge and the level of control a club would give him that would get him interested.   Man Utd might offer him a lot of money, but that is about all and I don't think money is his main motivator, otherwise he wouldn't have come to Norwich!

Man Utd don’t have to offer him almost total control for it to be a “bigger” job. Our club is a great club, but Man Utd is one of the biggest names in football globally. If Webber moves there and has an effect in turning around their fortunes it will be far more noteworthy than just keeping us in the Prem.

The challenge is there for all to see but a club like United can’t afford to give almost total control to someone like Webber at his current experience and standing. It’s the equivalent of someone running a medium sized business being offered a job at a larger company, it’s very unlikely that’s going to involve full control, that doesn’t stop it being a bigger role.

I don’t think money is his main motivator either, I think climbing the football ladder is. He came to us because despite our relative positions at the time Norwich was a bigger club.

 

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Posted (edited)

A committee of ex-players should be a big, red flag for Webber. Imagine the egos at work there, the internal politics, the infighting when a decision has to be made between competing signings. 

Webber would go there without any backing when compared to the ex-players who all could draw on their Man U reputation to win an argument. 

That situation would be a nest of vipers in my opinion and one that Webber should avoid like the plague. 

Unless he gets the clear lines of management that he gets at Norwich then I think he is making a big mistake to go there. On the other hand I don't see Man U giving him that level of control and authority because he hasn't operated at level before. 

My advice is obviously Norwich-biased but we've seen many occasions in the past where managers have left us for bigger things and it rarely works out for them. 

 

Edited by Rock The Boat

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21 minutes ago, king canary said:

You'd have to be wearing the thickest of yellow and green tinted glasses to think Webber (a young, forceful and highly ambitious guy) is turning down Man U for us. Even if the role doesn't have the same scope he will be aware that it could either progress into something bigger or help put him on the radar or other big clubs in a couple of years time.

He mentioned with the Maddison deal he wasn't used to working with such big sums. If he goes to Man U that becomes the norm which helps fill gaps in his CV to make him more attractive for a full sporting director role at a top level club.

Correct, incredibly naive to think he wouldn't go to Man Utd. As long as it was a role where he could demonstrate his talents he'd be off as quick as the next available flight out of Norwich. He'd be multiplying his salary possibly 10 times over, he'll be at a club who's recruitment etc has been shocking over the past 5 years yet has practically unlimited funds. Even if he done an average job on recruitment by his standards it'd be seen as a massive improvement over what has gone before.

Obviously I don't want him to go but if Man Utd put in a serious offer he ain't turning them down for us..

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, hogesar said:

 incredibly naive to think he wouldn't go to Man Utd. As long as it was a role where he could demonstrate his talents he'd be off as quick as the next available flight out of Norwich. He'd be multiplying his salary possibly 10 times over, he'll be at a club who's recruitment etc has been shocking over the past 5 years yet has practically unlimited funds. Even if he done an average job on recruitment by his standards it'd be seen as a massive improvement over what has gone before.

Obviously I don't want him to go but if Man Utd put in a serious offer he ain't turning them down for us..

Nope, not of the conditions aren't right for him - which imo they won't be. I don't think a head of recruitment job there would be enough for him - he is about changing cultures and Man Utd just do not have the right owners/heirachy or the state of mind to allow someone in who is not about ego but about inclusivility.  They thrive on ego - its the only thing they have (apart from money).  Unless they are willing to change their culture dramatically, even at 100 times the salary, I don't think he would touch them with a bargepole.

Edited by lake district canary

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

You'd have to be wearing the thickest of yellow and green tinted glasses to think Webber (a young, forceful and highly ambitious guy) is turning down Man U for us. Even if the role doesn't have the same scope he will be aware that it could either progress into something bigger or help put him on the radar or other big clubs in a couple of years time.

He mentioned with the Maddison deal he wasn't used to working with such big sums. If he goes to Man U that becomes the norm which helps fill gaps in his CV to make him more attractive for a full sporting director role at a top level club.

This. 

If Webber is offered a job by Manchester United, virtually any job, he's going to take it. He isn't a Norwich fan, has no connection to the club other than the fact he's an employee, so if Man Utd make him an offer then he'll be gone in a heartbeat, and who could blame him?

If any of us were working as the sporting director for, let's say, Sheffield United: a club in a similar position to ours, and Man Utd (or any of the big six) offered us a job on more money, with the potential to progress our careers either at that club or elsewhere, would we really turn it down in order to keep working for Sheffield United?

Anyone who thinks Webber would turn down a role at Man Utd to stay at Norwich is kidding themselves.

Luckily, my gut instinct says there's nothing in it. It just doesn't seem the sort of appointment Man Utd would make at this time.

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11 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Anyone who thinks Webber would turn down a role at Man Utd to stay at Norwich is kidding themselves.

No they aren't - they are crediting Webber with a bit more nous than to chase a big club because it is big or chasing money because its money.  He will go when the right opportunity presents itself and the timing is right. People underestimate him if they think he will go to ManUtd just because it is ManUtd.

Hopefully he will think there is plenty to do here for the foreseeable future - we are still progressing and while we are moving forwards and on the up, who knows where that could end up?  Ambition is one thing, but not all ambition means moving somewhere that is bigger and has more money.  

 

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55 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

No they aren't - they are crediting Webber with a bit more nous than to chase a big club because it is big or chasing money because its money.  He will go when the right opportunity presents itself and the timing is right. People underestimate him if they think he will go to ManUtd just because it is ManUtd.

Hopefully he will think there is plenty to do here for the foreseeable future - we are still progressing and while we are moving forwards and on the up, who knows where that could end up?  Ambition is one thing, but not all ambition means moving somewhere that is bigger and has more money.  

 

I disagree entirely. His stock won't rise much higher here than it is now, so to progress his career then he'll have to go to a bigger club. Why would he turn down Man Utd at this point? I just don't see why.

As King Canary said, it's just yellow and green tinted glasses. We think being the sporting director Norwich is wonderful because we're Norwich fans, but for Webber it's just a job with a company far smaller than the one that's allegedly offering him a position.

I say 'allegedly' because I doubt Man Utd would target him. 

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I can,t see him going to sit under Woodward, for many of the autonomy reasons mentioned.  Let's be honest though Woodward's stock is as low as hell. Would he go INSTEAD of Woodward? Or at least alongside?  I think it would be a huge draw. It would need a sea change in approach by the Glazers to appoint a football man at that level rather than an ex Investment Banker. Or would it?

The suggestion on here the Man Utd are not bigger than us is , of course, nonsense. The right job offer at MU , and Webber (and Mrs W) would be on the M62 like a flash.

Not sure how Compensation works with a SD? Depends on the notice periods ? Webber did a bit of Gardening before he came to us didn't he?

 

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I personally think it is still work in progress for Webber, and he will relish the challenge of keeping Norwich in the Premiership.

He has made it clear to the club that he would like to work abroad eventually. It will only enhance his CV if once again he finds good players, at the right price, to add to our current squad and keep us up.

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

I can,t see him going to sit under Woodward, for many of the autonomy reasons mentioned.  Let's be honest though Woodward's stock is as low as hell. Would he go INSTEAD of Woodward? Or at least alongside?  I think it would be a huge draw. It would need a sea change in approach by the Glazers to appoint a football man at that level rather than an ex Investment Banker. Or would it?

The suggestion on here the Man Utd are not bigger than us is , of course, nonsense. The right job offer at MU , and Webber (and Mrs W) would be on the M62 like a flash.

Not sure how Compensation works with a SD? Depends on the notice periods ? Webber did a bit of Gardening before he came to us didn't he?

 

Woodward is a financial man, so he'll stay in that role. They're looking for a football man to act as the bridge between Woodward and Solskjaer. But it seems to me like they'll go for either a big name or an ex-player because both options are 'sexier' than some bloke who got promotion with little ol' Norwich.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Not necessarily. From what can gather, he has almost total control over what happens in the Norwich set up - would Man Utd offer him that?  I doubt it very much. 

I think that to get Webber interested, a club would have to recognise it is up sh*t creek without a paddle and want him in as a root and branch overhaul merchant, with virtually no restriction. There are few very big clubs who would ever do that, unless they had really fallen from grace and were at the bottom of league or relegated.  The ambition of the guy isn't the question, it't the level of the challenge and the level of control a club would give him that would get him interested.   Man Utd might offer him a lot of money, but that is about all and I don't think money is his main motivator, otherwise he wouldn't have come to Norwich!

This.

Put yourself in the Manchester united owners shoes.

You need immediate success and top level players to get that.

Webber is good but ....

I would hazard recruiting and managing multi million £ superstars is a different skillset to players that can make a difference in the championship.

Why hire a guy from Norwich when you can hire a top level equivalent with champions league experience from Italy or Spain etc?

I just do not see it happening at this moment in time or at Manchester United a more dangerous link would be with a team like LDC mentions a Newcastle/Villa/Everton sized club who can use transfer savvy and youth to complete with the superstar recruiters.

Manchester United fans are not like us they are not going to endure a season or hardship whilst Webber shifts pogba on.

Nor are they going to accept a Farke type coach unless he hits the ground running... The local rivals have Pep Guardiola Webber is either going to be rolling the dice on a Farke type (who may not be able to deal with prima donna superstars) or hiring a big name manager.

I think its actually better for Webber to be here at Norwich and being middle of the premiership.

1)  He has total control here

2)  from this https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/941383/Premier-League-money-directors-salary-every-club-sportgalleries I see that Directors earn between hundreds of thousands to 2-4 million for the best paid.

Why can he not earn this kind of money with Norwich 10-20k pw?  less than Naismith.

3)  Norwich can sign players for x million and sell them for xx million ie they should always look to make a profit from transfers.

Maybe he does already but I would probably give my sporting director a bonus % on transfer profit and imho it will be much more attractive at Norwich as players will generally want to go for the higher money.

The best young players will want to come as they know they will play and then get sold for the big bucks.

When you sign a 50-100m player you only have a few clubs to sell to and the clubs run at a loss to win things.

Edited by Fromage Frais

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4 hours ago, Fromage Frais said:

This.

Put yourself in the Manchester united owners shoes.

You need immediate success and top level players to get that.

Webber is good but ....

I would hazard recruiting and managing multi million £ superstars is a different skillset to players that can make a difference in the championship.

Why hire a guy from Norwich when you can hire a top level equivalent with champions league experience from Italy or Spain etc?

I just do not see it happening at this moment in time or at Manchester United a more dangerous link would be with a team like LDC mentions a Newcastle/Villa/Everton sized club who can use transfer savvy and youth to complete with the superstar recruiters.

Manchester United fans are not like us they are not going to endure a season or hardship whilst Webber shifts pogba on.

Nor are they going to accept a Farke type coach unless he hits the ground running... The local rivals have Pep Guardiola Webber is either going to be rolling the dice on a Farke type (who may not be able to deal with prima donna superstars) or hiring a big name manager.

I think its actually better for Webber to be here at Norwich and being middle of the premiership.

1)  He has total control here

2)  from this https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/941383/Premier-League-money-directors-salary-every-club-sportgalleries I see that Directors earn between hundreds of thousands to 2-4 million for the best paid.

Why can he not earn this kind of money with Norwich 10-20k pw?  less than Naismith.

3)  Norwich can sign players for x million and sell them for xx million ie they should always look to make a profit from transfers.

Maybe he does already but I would probably give my sporting director a bonus % on transfer profit and imho it will be much more attractive at Norwich as players will generally want to go for the higher money.

The best young players will want to come as they know they will play and then get sold for the big bucks.

When you sign a 50-100m player you only have a few clubs to sell to and the clubs run at a loss to win things.

From memory most years accounts showed that McNally got nearer £1m . It was made up in different ways - bonuses for various reasons , pension payments as well as salary . I would expect Webber to have a Success based package - will be very interesting when we see this years accounts 

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