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Canary Renaissance

Football has kept me connected to the city

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Thanks for this wonderful post.

I have never experienced "coming back" because I have never left. What struck me was how you seamlessly link Norwich past to Norwich present. Although I go back 20 years further than you when out and about I can't always do that and don't easily connect places like the Castle Mall and the Cattle Market.

Carrow Road is so different now yet I can always connect the old with the new there🙃

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13 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Thanks for this wonderful post.

I have never experienced "coming back" because I have never left. What struck me was how you seamlessly link Norwich past to Norwich present. Although I go back 20 years further than you when out and about I can't always do that and don't easily connect places like the Castle Mall and the Cattle Market.

Carrow Road is so different now yet I can always connect the old with the new 

Nutty, much has changed around the area of the football ground since i was a boy. Bolton and Pauls has gone and much of what used to be Lawrence and Scotts has morphed into residential properties. In the fifties the whole district was industrial and the railway yards, now its mostly retail and housing.

My grandparents used to live in King Street so it was very handy for going to the football and it was a very colourful area in those days what with the cattle market just round the corner. It was a common sight to see cows bing driven through the streets on a Saturday.

I was biking down King Street to a match a few weeks ago and i had a flashback of walking down that street on a Saturday afternoon with my uncle and cousin some time in the early sixties. The breweries were still operating then and you always got the smell of the beer and the noise of bottles when you walked past what used to be Youngs Crawshay and Youngs.

The time i was recalling must have been an FA cup match and i can still picture hoards of Sunderland supporters spilling over the pavement outside the Ferry Inn. There must have been eight or nine pubs in King Street in those days. Different times mate but the City seemed a more colourful place in those days and it still does in my memory.

 

 

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Coming back to Norwich for the football is one of the finer things in life for an exile to do.  Childhood leaves indelible footprints in your mind, you never really forget where you were brought up and childhood memories are brought back into focus every time you go back after a long time away from the city.  My family and most of my friends have moved away from Norwich, so the only reason to visit now is the football club - and that is good enough reason. 

Like Ricardo mentions, going to the football years ago meant walking past derelict looking railway sidings and warehouses - it always seemed a long way to walk as a kid, so the way the football club has been brought into a better connection to the city centre is brilliant imo.  It is much more visible than it ever was and the whole area is bustling with people and it is a short walk from the station, rather than a longer walk round by the river as it used to be.  

One of the biggest changes from when I was growing up in the sixties is the spendid victorian landmark that was there before the Nelson Hotel - the Great Eastern Hotel - I remember it being demolished and watched the rather mundane looking building that replaced it emerge.

  image.thumb.png.f9dee5a37102dfbfc39a968d3410a56f.png

To my mind the city looks much better on the whole than it did when I was living there.......shame about Castle Gardens though which seems to have lost it's well cared for look that it had before the shopping centre was built....but the football is just as alive and vibrant as it always was - more so than ever this season - and a fantastic reason to still keep coming back to the city.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Ricardo, you really ought to get this all down on paper for future generations, mate. Your memories shouldn't be lost.

just the thought that I had

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35 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Nutty, much has changed around the area of the football ground since i was a boy. Bolton and Pauls has gone and much of what used to be Lawrence and Scotts has morphed into residential properties. In the fifties the whole district was industrial and the railway yards, now its mostly retail and housing.

My grandparents used to live in King Street so it was very handy for going to the football and it was a very colourful area in those days what with the cattle market just round the corner. It was a common sight to see cows bing driven through the streets on a Saturday.

I was biking down King Street to a match a few weeks ago and i had a flashback of walking down that street on a Saturday afternoon with my uncle and cousin some time in the early sixties. The breweries were still operating then and you always got the smell of the beer and the noise of bottles when you walked past what used to be Youngs Crawshay and Youngs.

The time i was recalling must have been an FA cup match and i can still picture hoards of Sunderland supporters spilling over the pavement outside the Ferry Inn. There must have been eight or nine pubs in King Street in those days. Different times mate but the City seemed a more colourful place in those days and it still does in my memory.

 

 

So many memories Rickyyy. My Nan used to have her barnet done on Thorpe road. If I got to take her with my grandad we'd go down Riverside. Sometimes we'd see the ships unloading timber or coal. Other times the ships would be turning around in the wide corner bit that must have been built for that purpose. If we were really lucky we'd see the bridge go up to let them through.

Bolton and Paul's had that big crane and sometimes it would be working.

I don't think of any of that when I am in the different place Riverside now. But remember it all fondly.

At reminiscence last month we did 1960s and I included the new cattle market being opened. I wasn't expecting much but it opened up a lovely memory for a lady who remembered having to keep the gate and door shut on market day when the animals walked through the City 🙃

You'd love the reminiscence groups. Especially Still On The Ball. 

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3 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Other times the ships would be turning around in the wide corner bit that must have been built for that purpose.

It was nutty and it was (and still is) called the turning basin. :classic_smile:

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2 minutes ago, lappinitup said:

It was nutty and it was (and still is) called the turning basin. :classic_smile:

Similar to the 'saloon nutty's gran went to

 

..... the Pudding Basin

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13 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

So many memories Rickyyy. My Nan used to have her barnet done on Thorpe road. If I got to take her with my grandad we'd go down Riverside. Sometimes we'd see the ships unloading timber or coal. Other times the ships would be turning around in the wide corner bit that must have been built for that purpose. If we were really lucky we'd see the bridge go up to let them through.

Bolton and Paul's had that big crane and sometimes it would be working.

I don't think of any of that when I am in the different place Riverside now. But remember it all fondly.

At reminiscence last month we did 1960s and I included the new cattle market being opened. I wasn't expecting much but it opened up a lovely memory for a lady who remembered having to keep the gate and door shut on market day when the animals walked through the City 🙃

You'd love the reminiscence groups. Especially Still On The Ball. 

Yes it was a lively old riverside back then. I remember the grain ships that used to come up to Reads Flour Mill and all the blokes standing ouside covered in white flour.😁

The dutch sailors used to drink in my wifes grandmothers pub. One day they pulled the old girls bloomers off the linen line and ran them up the mast.

My grandmother lived at the top of King Street just before you get to Rose Lane. Theres an office building there now. She had a passage that ran down onto Rose Lane and she would often have sheep or cows run up there if someone forgot to fasten the gate.

The young uns who dont remember the old wooden stands missed a real treat and I often wonder if they would still crave for standing areas if they had the experiences we had. The times Ive stood in the packed open river end soaking wet top half and dry below the chest. Ive got a picture in my mind of a rainy afternoon and Laurie Sheffield scoring with a header against Northampton I think, but I wouldnt swear on it.

Football is about so much more than just the game. I remember little instances of games from sixty years ago but its the feel of it that really stays with you. I can link all the stages of my life through football matches. I guess its something we all do really.

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I have mixed feelings about how the area around Riverside and the Carrow Rd look these days, I am all for change and I agree that the area looks better than when I was a kid (for the first 4 years of my life  we lived on King Street opposite what was Reads flour mill), however I do not believe the area looks anything like the developers said it would. In the mid eighties a group of us used to meet in the Rosary Tavern for a pre match beer or three before walking down Riverside Rd to the ground, I remember billboards proclaiming the redevelopment of the area into something akin to a riverside Amsterdam with its narrow tall buildings etc, what we got is starkly different to that. When my parents first moved into King St, the first time there was a home game they found their back garden full of bicycles, and money to pay for the "parking" deposited on the window ledge, word gradually got round that a new family had moved in and despite Dad being happy for people to leave their bikes in the back yard (with no charge) the number of bikes left there dwindled until nobody left their bikes in the back yard, much different times then!.

I love the city of Norwich and in the main I embrace the change, but for those of you who may want to reminisce about the Norwich of old, if you have not come across it before the link below takes you to a very good free resource......

http://www.georgeplunkett.co.uk/Norwich/

Edited by Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB
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17 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

I have mixed feelings about how the area around Riverside and the Carrow Rd look these days, I am all for change and I agree that the area looks better than when I was a kid (for the first 4 years of my life  we lived on King Street opposite what was Reads flour mill), however I do not believe the area looks anything like the developers said it would. In the mid eighties a group of us used to meet in the Rosary Tavern for a pre match beer or three before walking down Riverside Rd to the ground, I remember billboards proclaiming the redevelopment of the area into something akin to a riverside Amsterdam with its narrow tall buildings etc, what we got is starkly different to that. When my parents first moved into King St, the first time there was a home game they found their back garden full of bicycles, and money to pay for the "parking" deposited on the window ledge, word gradually got round that a new family had moved in and despite Dad being happy for people to leave their bikes in the back yard (with no charge) the number of bikes left there dwindled until nobody left their bikes in the back yard, much different times then!.

I love the city of Norwich and in the main I embrace the change, but for those of you who may want to reminisce about the Norwich of old, if you have not come across it before the link below takes you to a very good free resource......

http://www.georgeplunkett.co.uk/Norwich/

Yes a lot of people biked to the match back then and several of the terrace house made a few bob looking after bikes on match days.

When I was in my teens we lived near to the Plumstead Rd Library and I always biked to the ground. There used to be a safe place at the Barclay End where you could leave your bike for threepence.  You would get two numbered wooden tokens, one to hang on your handlebars and one to keep in your pocket and had to hand both back to claim your bike.

I used to get right near the back of the Barclay and when the final whistle went, bolt down the steps and get away before the crush. Up over the bridge, along Thorpe Rd, through Wellesley Avenue woods and be home in time for Sports Report.🚴‍♂️😁

Edited by ricardo
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3 minutes ago, ricardo said:

 

I used to get right near the back of the Barclay and when the final whistle went, bolt down the steps and get away before the crush. Up over the bridge, along Thorpe Rd, through Wellesley Avenue woods and be home in time for Sports Report.🚴‍♂️😁

The crush!!

Exactly what it was after big attendances. When everyone flooded out of those huge exit gates Carrow road couldn't really take it. It really felt like if you lifted your feet off the ground you'd be carried along so tightly were we packed 🙃

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Great OP and very much how I feel as an exile of over 30 years now. But my youngest is four years off Uni, so I'm really looking forward to moving back and getting a season ticket!

There's no place like home, especially when it's Norwich! 

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10 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

The crush!!

Exactly what it was after big attendances. When everyone flooded out of those huge exit gates Carrow road couldn't really take it. It really felt like if you lifted your feet off the ground you'd be carried along so tightly were we packed 🙃

Yes, if you had to go down Riverside Rd you had to work your way over to the far side of the road else you'd be swept on over Carrow Bridge before your feet touched the floor. Getting out of the ground is much slower nowadays, back then in a 30k plus crowd most would be standing and old Russell Allison would open those big green gates with about twentyfive minutes left to play. There were always a few who came in and watched the last knockings for free.

When the final whistle went they all flooded down the steps into Carrow Rd. Those who have never experienced it probably won't believe me, but you could literally take your feet off the floor and be carried along.

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Ha! If you wanted to leave early you'd have be positioned to do so. There'd be none of the "leaving early to beat the traffic" malarkey we get now. Imagine standing half way up the middle of a terrace and expecting to get away early.

"Excuse me....." Lol! As if......

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I remember that woman who used to sell seafood near the ground, used to wheel her wheel barrow down Kings Street to the ground shouting out stuff

her daughter took over the business eventually

handy little piece as well

remember getting crabs off her once

Cromer they were

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I used to leave my bike in that place at the back of the Barclay.  Often on Saturday I would play hockey at Pinebanks and then bike down to Carrow Road and get in free for the second half.  Used to be a good fish and chip shop on the corner of Cozens Road.

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10 hours ago, Myra Hawtree said:

I used to leave my bike in that place at the back of the Barclay.  Often on Saturday I would play hockey at Pinebanks and then bike down to Carrow Road and get in free for the second half.  Used to be a good fish and chip shop on the corner of Cozens Road.

They used to do a roaring trade there on match days Myra. Thats another thing thats changed, very few chip shops about now compared to those days. 

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It’s good to read a thread without any animosity or barbed comments!

 

As a youngster (aged 10 and 11) I would walk to the ground with my brother from the Heartsease Estate. We sometimes arrived before the gates were open but as long as we could buy a packet of Munchies from the vendors who carried trays with a strap around their neck and then claim our place sitting with feet through the railings behind the Barclay goal, we were happy to enjoy the build-up.

 

At the end of the game we would pop over the road (literally) to the British Rail engineering shop where my father would be working hands full of grease and diesel oil. I think the repair shop for the rail engines and coaches was on the site now occupied by Yellow Storage Unit and a tyre replacement bay?

 

We would then walk home, a much tougher walk up the Harvey Lane hill, especially if we had lost!
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Changing the subject slightly, but I love Jon McGregor’s writing. I’ve bought all his books on the strength of Even the Dogs. Not a light-hearted read though, but powerful and moving. 

 

Didn’t know he was a fellow Canary!

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25 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Changing the subject slightly, but I love Jon McGregor’s writing. I’ve bought all his books on the strength of Even the Dogs. Not a light-hearted read though, but powerful and moving. 

 

Didn’t know he was a fellow Canary!

I must admit that I hadn’t heard of him until I read the Guardian article.

 

He has also written this a few days ago...............

 

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2019/may/20/radicalism-rebellion-and-robert-kett-a-walk-through-norwichs-history

 

There are some great photos in the article as well.

 

For those of you wanting to take up Nuff Said’s recommendation to read some of his works, here is a list.

 

·         2002 Sunday Times Young Writer of the Year Award, If Nobody Speaks of Remarkable Things

·         2002 Commonwealth Writers Prize (Eurasia Region, Best First Book), shortlist, If Nobody Speaks of Remarkable Things

·         2003 Booker Prize, longlist, If Nobody Speaks of Remarkable Things

·         2003 Somerset Maugham Award, winner, If Nobody Speaks of Remarkable Things

·         2003 British Book Awards, shortlist, If Nobody Speaks of Remarkable Things

·         2003 Betty Trask Prize, winner, If Nobody Speaks of Remarkable Things

·         2006 Booker Prize, longlist, So Many Ways to Begin

·         2010 BBC National Short Story Competition, runner-up

·         2010 University of Nottingham, honorary doctorate

·         2011 BBC National Short Story Competition, runner-up

·         2012 International IMPAC Dublin Literary Award, winner, Even the Dogs

·         2017 Costa Book Award, Novel, Reservoir

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Its fine you all banging on remembering this and that but how many of you remembered my birthday?

Seriously though, I would imagine its us ex pats who notice the change more than those of you rooted. Riverside for instance, is very functional, useful and as Norwich always is, very tidy. But to be honest I have seen similar in Bristol, Bracknell, Staines, Maidstone etc.

It leaves me with mixed emotions when I visit. Yes it is clearly up to date whereas when I left in 1974, there were plenty of pubs and that was it. If you didn't like the London Steak House you settled for a Chinese meal. And Purdy's (where Mrs KG worked) and the Golden Egg were it.

Now Norwich truly is a fine city but I do hope it manages to keep the things that make it unique. And referencing the article, then it really is football that keeps the link so strong. Sad to admit it but apart from one niece and cousins etc I have little family link with Norwich anymore but so much of my life down here in Cornwall which unlike the author, truly is my home, still involves NCFC.

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You could dine at Littlewoods restaurant if you had the wherewithal - unlike our sort who had f*** all.

Much of trade, business and industry was ver localised so you were well aware of what was going on around you industry wise. With much based around the river. it was not all located on some distant industrial estate.

People shopped at the local corner shop, as with no fridges food did not keep - hence he milkman. And people seemed to drink far more. Not just binging, but having a pint or two at lunch. People also worked pretty much close to where they lived. Folk knew each other and recognised what needed ding as you were far more inter connected and reliant upon others.

Not growing up in the City I still think that Norwich was much more a huge number of 'villages' rather than one unified City. We seem to have become far more insular and detached from what goes on around us - more's the pity.

 

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When I come home, I'm still struck by how far we are from any other City, we seem to be so far removed from the rest of the Country that we almost seem to have our own economy. Yes roading has improved, the Thetford by pass is a step in the right direction, having driven from London numerous times I wondered why the M11 wasn't extended. That said, most upgrades in the region are 30 years too late. 

I was over last September (International break, bu66er) went to see an aunt who lives in Susted, do you think I could find it? I was asking people who lived 4 miles away who couldn't tell me where it was. Apparently, during the War, with the Germans threatening invasion, all the road signs were removed, after the war they were never replaced. 

Edited by splendidrush

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