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Crabbycanary3

Penalties in the Prem

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Officials will be much more stringent when it comes to penalty kicks next season as keepers must have at least part of one foot on or in line with the goal-line when the spot kick is taken.

 
In addition to this, keepers will also be prohibited from moving on the goal-line or from touching their goalposts.

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1 minute ago, Tetteys Jig said:

keepers not allowed to move on the line or touch the goalposts.

They must have very long arms.

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It didn't seem to mention it in that article, but rebounds from penalties are to become a thing of the past too.

The referee stops play if the ball rebounds out off the post or is saved by the keeper. Presumably play starts with the defending goalkeeper. So in-game penalties now become like penalty shootout penalties.

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As we have not had a penalty in the Premier League away from Carrow Road since September 1994, I doubt whether this will bother us much. 

I remain convinced if we get awarded one at Old Trafford, Anfield etc, VAR will overturn it.

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I don't see the issue with goalkeepers moving along their line or touching the frame of their goal. I don't see the problem with attackers disrupting a wall, either.

One other rule change that I didn't see in that article is goal kicks. The ball doesn't have to leave the area now before another player touches it.

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8 minutes ago, Year of the tiger said:

As we have not had a penalty in the Premier League away from Carrow Road since September 1994, I doubt whether this will bother us much. 

I remain convinced if we get awarded one at Old Trafford, Anfield etc, VAR will overturn it.

That's got to be up around a hundred away games, if anyone thinks that the Premiership is fair and equal ..........

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By my calculations 113 games ago. Incidentally that wasn't given as a penalty. The lines at Poorman Road had been almost washed out. Ref gave a free kick & only when placing the ball saw the washed out line & changed to a penalty. Previous one to that was at Old Trafford the game before we went to Inter Milan

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A good few years back I'm sure I heard that after the penalty at Old Trafford, which I believe was converted by Ruel Fox though don't quote me on that, an away team did not score (or were even given?) a penalty at Old Trafford for a ridiculous amount of seasons.

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13 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

A good few years back I'm sure I heard that after the penalty at Old Trafford, which I believe was converted by Ruel Fox though don't quote me on that, an away team did not score (or were even given?) a penalty at Old Trafford for a ridiculous amount of seasons.

From memory it was around 10 years, a stat released by a newspaper, interestingly the following week Liverpool won 3-0 at OT, two of which were penalties. 

Just imagine, 10 years or so, League, Cups and Europe and no mistimed tackles or hand balls, seriously?

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26 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

A good few years back I'm sure I heard that after the penalty at Old Trafford, which I believe was converted by Ruel Fox though don't quote me on that, an away team did not score (or were even given?) a penalty at Old Trafford for a ridiculous amount of seasons.

It was 10 years from when Fox scored that another League penalty was scored by an away team at Old Trafford. There had been one awarded in the meantime, but missed. The idea that only one foul had been committed by a Man Utd player in their own penalty area in a whole decade is  plainly absurd.There is no doubt that there is a big-club bias from referees, which VAR may help to mitigate a bit.

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2 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

One other rule change that I didn't see in that article is goal kicks. The ball doesn't have to leave the area now before another player touches it.

Will an opponent be allowed to be in the area as well? I'm assuming not as they're supposed to be a min of 10 yards from the restart of play.

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16 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

It was 10 years from when Fox scored that another League penalty was scored by an away team at Old Trafford. There had been one awarded in the meantime, but missed. The idea that only one foul had been committed by a Man Utd player in their own penalty area in a whole decade is  plainly absurd.There is no doubt that there is a big-club bias from referees, which VAR may help to mitigate a bit.

I'm certain I read an article by Graham Poll shortly after he'd retired where he admitted the existence of a subconscious bias on favour of big clubs.

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It has taken a long time for the UK to sync with Europe over the awarding of penalties. The unwritten, prevalent attitude that a penalty has to somehow be more of a foul than elsewhere on the field was an English sentiment and regularly caught out UK teams in major European club and International competitions.

Parma 

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19 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I'm certain I read an article by Graham Poll shortly after he'd retired where he admitted the existence of a subconscious bias on favour of big clubs.

If it was the same referee, and I think it was, he admitted it was much more than subconscious. He said particularly that when refereeing Man Utd and there was a potential penalty against them his first thought was how he would get roasted alive by Ferguson if he got it wrong, Of course the moment you think that, as opposed to thinking only of reds versus blues, you don't give it.

And this doesn't just apply to Man Utd. From memory last season against Arsenal in one of the cups, 2-1 down right at the end, Hoolahan was throttled to the ground. You could not imagine anything more blatant. The ref. gave a goal kick.

Edited by PurpleCanary

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10 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

It has taken a long time for the UK to sync with Europe over the awarding of penalties. The unwritten, prevalent attitude that a penalty has to somehow be more of a foul than elsewhere on the field was an English sentiment and regularly caught out UK teams in major European club and International competitions.

Parma 

Although not if the foul was committed by Beckenbauer, I seem to recall... :classic_ninja:

 

In England I think it's pretty simple.  Lower league refs are reluctant to give a penalty because giving nothing will attract less scrutiny than giving a penalty, so they'll tend to give one only if they're pretty sure.  That's my experience of watching a lot of 2nd tier football over the last 25 years (and one season of 3rd tier football :classic_biggrin:).

 

In the Prem, refs don't mind being in the spotlight, they are famous in their own right and are more confident giving big decisions (and some will even relish it, to a degree).  But they know that giving a penalty against a big team, especially at home, will attract a shedload of scrutiny and flak.  Man U under SAF was the extreme example of this but Wenger at Ars*nal would also whinge endlessly about decisions.  Whereas giving it against a smaller team is an easier option, so it happens more often.  It's human nature.

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4 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

If it was the same referee, and I think it was, he admitted it was much more than subconscious. He said particularly that when refereeing Man Utd and there was a potential penalty against them his first thought was how he would get roasted alive by Ferguson if he got it wrong, Of course the moment you think that, as opposed to thinking only of reds versus blues, you don't give it.

And this doesn't just apply to Man Utd. From memory last season against Arsenal in one of the cups, 2-1 down right at the end, Hoolahan was throttled to the ground. You could not imagine anything more blatant. The ref. gave a goal kick.

Yeah I remember the Hoolahan incident, it was just embarrassing. 

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3 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

If it was the same referee, and I think it was, he admitted it was much more than subconscious. He said particularly that when refereeing Man Utd and there was a potential penalty against them his first thought was how he would get roasted alive by Ferguson if he got it wrong, Of course the moment you think that, as opposed to thinking only of reds versus blues, you don't give it.

And this doesn't just apply to Man Utd.

I found the article, it was about Norwich which explains why it stuck in my mind (and why I was reading a Daily Mail article!)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2036381/Graham-Poll-Do-referees-favour-big-clubs-Yes-dont-know-theyre-doing-it.html

He refers to the fallout, but still maintains it is on a subconscious level.

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Do they not also need to clarify the rules around the penalty-taker’s behaviour?

I’ve seen a few in video compilations where they suddenly pause during their run-up or even pretend to fall, to make the keeper commit then they go the other way. I always thought there was an existing rule about this, might be wrong. Something about stopping the run, but might be a myth/my misunderstanding . 

Certainly the scorers of these are held up as being some kind of geniuses on YouTube, which I’d disagree with.

So, if there’s now a crackdown on goalie mind games and movements, surely it’s only fair that funny business by the shooter is addressed.

 

I realise I may be in a minority, but the above types of action don’t come across as fair play.

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1 minute ago, GenerationA47 said:

Do they not also need to clarify the rules around the penalty-taker’s behaviour?

I’ve seen a few in video compilations where they suddenly pause during their run-up or even pretend to fall, to make the keeper commit then they go the other way. I always thought there was an existing rule about this, might be wrong. Something about stopping the run, but might be a myth/my misunderstanding . 

Certainly the scorers of these are held up as being some kind of geniuses on YouTube, which I’d disagree with.

So, if there’s now a crackdown on goalie mind games and movements, surely it’s only fair that funny business by the shooter is addressed.

 

I realise I may be in a minority, but the above types of action don’t come across as fair play.

There is already a rule that a penalty-taker can't stop during his run-up. He can slow down but can't come to a complete stop.

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Just now, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

There is already a rule that a penalty-taker can't stop during his run-up. He can slow down but can't come to a complete stop.

Thanks, thought there was something. Strange kind of rule in its nature, but presumably intended to prevent what I was complaining about. Surely related antics with the same purpose but no full-stop should also be sanctioned. A pause in the run often has the same effect

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I realise I've said it already in this thread, but will VAR help/hinder refs in these penalty taking changes (i.e. retake if the keeper moves, retake if striker stops their run...)?

I hope I'm wrong, but I have a feeling that VAR is going to be talked about endlessly next season.

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Quote from Graham Poll :

"Let me guarantee you this: none of the penalties given to Wigan Athletic, Stoke City or West Bromwich would have been awarded against Manchester United and yet they were against Norwich City. So are match officials really biased, do they deliberately favour the big teams? "

Are there any city supporters who really didn't believe that the majority of big decisions go the way of the big teams, and have done since probably the game was invented?

VAR will be a friend to Norwich next season in the main and the ONLY teams it will be seen to 'punish' will be the traditional top 6. 

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10 minutes ago, East Rider said:

Quote from Graham Poll :

"Let me guarantee you this: none of the penalties given to Wigan Athletic, Stoke City or West Bromwich would have been awarded against Manchester United and yet they were against Norwich City. So are match officials really biased, do they deliberately favour the big teams? "

Are there any city supporters who really didn't believe that the majority of big decisions go the way of the big teams, and have done since probably the game was invented?

VAR will be a friend to Norwich next season in the main and the ONLY teams it will be seen to 'punish' will be the traditional top 6. 

I wish !!!

 

I am optimistic that VAR will help to reduce the bias in decisions, to a degree.  But we've already seen enough bizarre VAR decisions to know that it's not going to work solely against the big teams.

Edited by It's Character Forming
underlining relevant bit

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