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A Load of Squit

£13m for a 20 yr old Championship Defender

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I think Godfrey Aarons and Lewis are priceless to us, being first team regulars in a premier league standard team. If you had to value any of them they would surely be in the £20m + bracket. 

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Makes you realise how much Maddison probably should have gone for! Not a dig at the board btw, I don’t do that, just you can’t help but feel he was £30mil kid even then.

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However Maddison was injured in our last game at Sheff We’d, so a real possibility we couldn’t have sold him until just passed Jan window. Only Leicester made a bid for him if reports are accurate. Like a lot of things timing a trade is everything, the money we did get financed this season, just glad we saw him play in yellow.

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Absolutely Surfer, I understand completely the reasons, and how well it’s ultimately turned out for both parties, it’s a good point about the injury perhaps affecting the size of the fee.

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Ceased to be a sport once a certain Rupert Murdoch turned his steely gaze thisaways. Obscene, ludicrous, incredible, crooked and lots of other similar adjectives aptly describe the financial world into which the plucky Canaries are poised to re-enter!

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It’s ridiculous that a club like Bournemouth with a ground that holds only 12,000 can spend that much

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7 hours ago, CANARYKING said:

It’s ridiculous that a club like Bournemouth with a ground that holds only 12,000 can spend that much

We'll average around 26,000 next season but those extra 14,000 people will only bring in £9m which is a drop in the ocean compared to the money from tv. Sadly it means that extending Carrow Road is unlikely to happen. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

We'll average around 26,000 next season but those extra 14,000 people will only bring in £9m which is a drop in the ocean compared to the money from tv. Sadly it means that extending Carrow Road is unlikely to happen. 

We always get this and it is a fundamentally flawed argument in as much as it only concerns it's self only with the now and the immediate future.

With a full, sold out ground every week and with a cap on season ticket sales it is hard for potential and younger supporters to get to see a live game.  

These are the likely attendees of the future, those extra heads that have the bug enough to  fill seats when the club's fortunes eventually dip.

Notwithstanding that the argument minimises current income from seat and other sales ( a mere £9m after all)  it therefore also disregards the importance of  creating a more solid fan base for times ahead.

The main stand pales into the stupid compared to the other parts of the ground by the fact that it is of League One appearance.

For sure, attendance numbers are far from the most important sauce of income at a Premier League club, but City's esteem as a  club that exists at this level, and on a regular if short lived basis, is reduced by the sight of it on the television screens if nothing else.

An extra five thousand on the gate is imperative to my way of thinking, the problem with creating this does not lie in the fact that it will not be financially viable at this moment in time but in the logistics involved by the  complicated problems that will need addressing during the construction period.

A few seasons in the Premier League and I foresee the matter of crowd expansion becoming more and more pertinent.  It must always be on the drawing board even if not for the now, as this would mean 'doing an Ipswich,' but for the long term.

Additionally, we are a "one city club" which is an advantage that needs exploiting via the "shrine" that is Carrow Road. A reported 50,000 people attended the open top bus celebrations, trade for local businesses flourished as never before, club/community relationships were at a peak. Need there be any better indication of the interest in the club and the need to transplant this to the stadium on a regular and future basis?

Think small and you get small.

Edited by BroadstairsR
  • Like 2

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1 hour ago, BroadstairsR said:

Think small and you get small.

The binners thought big and have had ten thousand empty seats every week. Let’s say we stay up and then have Burnley here on a February evening, we would struggle to sell that out with our current capacity.

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1 minute ago, FenwayFrank said:

The binners thought big and have had ten thousand empty seats every week. Let’s say we stay up and then have Burnley here on a February evening, we would struggle to sell that out with our current capacity.

It wasn't quite my point though was it?

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"With a full, sold out ground every week and with a cap on season ticket sales it is hard for potential and younger supporters to get to see a live game.  

These are the likely attendees of the future, those extra heads that have the bug enough to  fill seats when the club's fortunes eventually dip."

If you look around Carrow Rd. on match days you'll always see loads of young supporters, next year will be my Great Nephews first season as a season ticket holder and he's only 7.

Over the last few years the fortunes of the club have dipped (and peaked) but that hasn't dramatically changed the number of season tickets or attendances.

 

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But your overall point was that we should expand the ground, and Frank is giving one reason why it might not work. 

 

I’m not entirely sure what your point is - that we need to build up our younger fan base, which is an argument that has merit IMHO, or that we look a bit ‘small club’ on TV?

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Posted (edited)

My response was to the following remark:-

"Sadly it means that extending Carrow Road is unlikely to happen." 

 

I merely stated that expansion plans must always be on the drawing board and gave valid reasons why.,

I even quoted the mistaken Ipswich model and never, ever said that that a fair amount of younger supporters were excluded entirely from attending. That they are not is patently obvious.

Distort as you wish but, whether it be for the future fan base, current income or television image, is there any body who wishes to deny that a larger capacity at Carrow Road would be beneficial for the club, for the now and the future?

Edited by BroadstairsR

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4 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

We always get this and it is a fundamentally flawed argument in as much as it only concerns it's self only with the now and the immediate future.

With a full, sold out ground every week and with a cap on season ticket sales it is hard for potential and younger supporters to get to see a live game.  

These are the likely attendees of the future, those extra heads that have the bug enough to  fill seats when the club's fortunes eventually dip.

Notwithstanding that the argument minimises current income from seat and other sales ( a mere £9m after all)  it therefore also disregards the importance of  creating a more solid fan base for times ahead.

The main stand pales into the stupid compared to the other parts of the ground by the fact that it is of League One appearance.

For sure, attendance numbers are far from the most important sauce of income at a Premier League club, but City's esteem as a  club that exists at this level, and on a regular if short lived basis, is reduced by the sight of it on the television screens if nothing else.

An extra five thousand on the gate is imperative to my way of thinking, the problem with creating this does not lie in the fact that it will not be financially viable at this moment in time but in the logistics involved by the  complicated problems that will need addressing during the construction period.

A few seasons in the Premier League and I foresee the matter of crowd expansion becoming more and more pertinent.  It must always be on the drawing board even if not for the now, as this would mean 'doing an Ipswich,' but for the long term.

Additionally, we are a "one city club" which is an advantage that needs exploiting via the "shrine" that is Carrow Road. A reported 50,000 people attended the open top bus celebrations, trade for local businesses flourished as never before, club/community relationships were at a peak. Need there be any better indication of the interest in the club and the need to transplant this to the stadium on a regular and future basis?

Think small and you get small.

Where were all these people for all but 3 of our games last season ie the last 2 home games and the Ipswich game ?. The season before I could not even give my season ticket away and likewise the club were desperately trying to sell vastly discounted tickets. Even gates in the premier league drop off if you stay up long enough to see games where winning just merely gets you to safety.

 

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Posted (edited)

Why should we expand the ground when just 8 months ago there was no appetite to do it and many threads on here were about the drop in attendances and non renewal of season tickets. That proved beyond doubt that we'd only be increasing capacity for the glory boys. 

Edited by nutty nigel

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Posted (edited)

Be Jesus!

 

I only stated that expansion plans must always be on the drawing board, and added the proviso that it would need a prolonged period at the top table, and all the old anti-expansion agenda and anecdotal stuff comes out in force.

I also feel that potentialising support in the future is important.

Therefore, if/when it becomes, viable adding a few more thousand onto the attendance capacity should always be considered.

Making hay while the suns shines and all that.

Our attendance next season will be way below the average for the League we are in. Nothing can be done about it now or for the immediate future, but now is not forever.

The main stand is has also become dated and somewhat inadequate .... or at least it was four/five years ago when I last attended it.It will surely need upgrading sooner rather than later.

 

Edited by BroadstairsR

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The average age of a football supporter attending a game is 45.8 years old. 

The idea that football is in crisis  is mistaken but 18- 24 year olds as a demographic do not attend in the numbers as grandads and their grandchildren. I presume that the former pay for the tickets.

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So do these 18-24 year olds attend other live sports in greater numbers or is this just a football issue?

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If we want to improve our image we can use Virtual set technology, which can replace the City Stand roofline with a new image. The same broadcast technology used to insert real time graphics into sports events coverage.

Or we could move the broadcast cameras from the South Stand over to the City Stand. 

So the argument Is really about the economics, we’re better off in the Championship if the goal is total attendance over a season. We’re better off in the Premier League if the goal is revenue.

If we can make our new player acquisition and development model work, then there should be some money available to enhance Carrow Road without a major effect on team building and  the other core facilities. But no chance right now.

(Yes I’d like to see a new City Stand too, btw) 

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The Stadium development paradox. When you have the Premier revenues the extra ticket sales are an irrelevance vs the TV money and the future liabilities, when you are in the Championship the extra seat revenues are priceless and contribute to the self-sustaining model, but the demand is less and the repayments risk critically undermine the self-sustaining stability model (notwithstanding this remarkable season, planning to repeat it economically would be a Pollyanna economic forecast).

Furthermore there would appear to be good evidence that 27,000 is quite a sweet spot for us. When you  like do it, you don’t need it. When you need it financially, you don’t want to be paying for it and probably then aren’t able to fill it often enough. 

Parma

 

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The opportunity was missed when the old stand burnt down. A little bit more ambition on the rebuild at the time with say an extra 3000 seats would have been ideal but sadly it has now become a very expensive option.

In any event gates of over 30k, even in the era of standing terraces were a relative rarity. I doubt if we will ever see gates of that size in any foreseeable future.

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If we had mega-rich owners then it would already be done, but instead we are being managed sensibly and within our financial constraints and with that in mind it's VERY tough to justify that level of spending on extra seating, particular when we have no idea what league we'll be in the year after next (here's to hoping it's still the Prem), or if in fact we'd even consistently fill those seats either.

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Question: Do we have to allocate away seats if your ground is under redevelopment? 

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30,000 plus gates are definitely realistic. I like the stadium and would even more if they rebuilt the City stand (and knocked down the hotel ) 

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The fact that this is only ever discussed on here when we are in the PL suggests that people want the ground extended in order to watch other teams...

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6 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

The fact that this is only ever discussed on here when we are in the PL suggests that people want the ground extended in order to watch other teams...

To watch City play other teams you mean... and much higher quality teams at that.

I doubt that there's not a club in the land which wouldn't attract bigger crowds from being in the Premier League as opposed to the Chumps. City are no exception.

Better quality excites more interest which leads to more support, but what does that prove? 

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