£13m for a 20 yr old Championship Defender

[nutty nigel 7,509]

But that misses the point that what goes up comes back down and at a time our income is already decimated we have a stadium that's too big and too expensive for purpose.

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by nutty nigel

[lake district canary 4,531]

2 hours ago, ricardo said:

The opportunity was missed when the old stand burnt down. A little bit more ambition on the rebuild at the time with say an extra 3000 seats would have been ideal but sadly it has now become a very expensive option.

To put a top terrace on the south stand would make the ground look way too lop-sided imo, with such a low stand on the other side.  I hope that any ground expansion will be on the main stand, either by putting a top terrace on it - or even just extending it backwards which seems feasible and could even be done without needing to relocate season ticket holders.

 

[splendidrush 699]

I'm with Broadstairs, with the only Top tier side in East Anglia, we should be looking to expand our support base,there is no better time than now.

How many people do we need to have on a waiting list before we accept that it is costing money not to build. Someone mentioned that ticket sales would not justify the cost as it's only around 9 million for the season. 

But that's every season for the next 30,40,50 years if the marketing is done right. Population will increase over time and then you have merchandising and refreshments to consider. 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

And yet just a few months ago Broady was on about dwindling attendances and expanding the ground would have been out of the question :-

 

 

[splendidrush 699]

I'm agreeing with his comment that expansion 'should always be on the drawing board' not this year, not next year but ultimately the main stand will need to be replaced at some point,  surely an ideal time to add a few thousand seats,  say up to 30,000, would be when development is going to happen anyway. 

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

40 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

And yet just a few months ago Broady was on about dwindling attendances and expanding the ground would have been out of the question :-

 

 

Eh? Are you actually being serious?

You've got the wrong one there buddy ...  the time you clearly wasted on that spurious research has been totally wasted.

Who the **** is/was Mr. Footy anyhow?

Strange.

[Surfer 1,547]

3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

 I hope that any ground expansion will be on the main stand, either by putting a top terrace on it - or even just extending it backwards which seems feasible and could even be done without needing to relocate season ticket holders.

 

Yes, that's what I don't get on the stadium discussion, just put a "back half" on the existing City Stand and put a new cantilever roof over the existing "font half" and "back half". You should be able to do that w/o having to relocate 4,000 ticket holders. 

[CanaryChris 146]

So...about that defender moving from Bristol to Bournemouth?

[dylanisabaddog 4,867]

23 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

We always get this and it is a fundamentally flawed argument in as much as it only concerns it's self only with the now and the immediate future.

With a full, sold out ground every week and with a cap on season ticket sales it is hard for potential and younger supporters to get to see a live game.  

These are the likely attendees of the future, those extra heads that have the bug enough to  fill seats when the club's fortunes eventually dip.

Notwithstanding that the argument minimises current income from seat and other sales ( a mere £9m after all)  it therefore also disregards the importance of  creating a more solid fan base for times ahead.

The main stand pales into the stupid compared to the other parts of the ground by the fact that it is of League One appearance.

For sure, attendance numbers are far from the most important sauce of income at a Premier League club, but City's esteem as a  club that exists at this level, and on a regular if short lived basis, is reduced by the sight of it on the television screens if nothing else.

An extra five thousand on the gate is imperative to my way of thinking, the problem with creating this does not lie in the fact that it will not be financially viable at this moment in time but in the logistics involved by the  complicated problems that will need addressing during the construction period.

A few seasons in the Premier League and I foresee the matter of crowd expansion becoming more and more pertinent.  It must always be on the drawing board even if not for the now, as this would mean 'doing an Ipswich,' but for the long term.

Additionally, we are a "one city club" which is an advantage that needs exploiting via the "shrine" that is Carrow Road. A reported 50,000 people attended the open top bus celebrations, trade for local businesses flourished as never before, club/community relationships were at a peak. Need there be any better indication of the interest in the club and the need to transplant this to the stadium on a regular and future basis?

Think small and you get small.

I absolutely agree with you and I think as a Premier League team we could probably average 35,000 attendances. But financing a new City Stand is a huge problem. After what happened at Ipswich the financial institutions are a bit reticent about lending money to clubs of our size. If we did borrow the money we would have to sell 90% of the seats for 20 years to pay the money back. That is a huge leap of faith for a club of our size. 

That leaves paying for the improvement out of income which means spending less on buying players and on wages which makes relegation more likely. 

There are huge and obvious benefits to building a new stand but without a sugar daddy to pay it's hard to see how it can be achieved. The current management team at the club are the best ever. If they can't do it then no one can. 

I'm old enough to remember standing in crowds of 37,000 at Carrow Road and it created an extraordinary atmosphere. It would be brilliant to see that again but quite how do we achieve that? I suggest that we all buy Euromillions tickets the next time the jackpot reaches £150m.

The easy answer to increasing the capacity is safe standing in the lower tiers at both ends. That requires a Minister of Sport with the foresight to change the law. Whatever political party you support I don't see that happening for years. It requires someone to make a decision........ 

[splendidrush 699]

27 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I absolutely agree with you and I think as a Premier League team we could probably average 35,000 attendances. But financing a new City Stand is a huge problem. After what happened at Ipswich the financial institutions are a bit reticent about lending money to clubs of our size. If we did borrow the money we would have to sell 90% of the seats for 20 years to pay the money back. That is a huge leap of faith for a club of our size. 

 

We are not the same size as 1p5wich, not even close, besides, they don't own the land they built on. As I said before, we are going to have to build a new stand eventually anyway, regardless of cost, so we may as well factor in some expansion. 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

8 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

Eh? Are you actually being serious?

You've got the wrong one there buddy ...  the time you clearly wasted on that spurious research has been totally wasted.

Who the **** is/was Mr. Footy anyhow?

Strange.

What time Broady? Do you not have a memory? I'm pretty sure that's the right one...

I don't know who Mr Footy is but he started the thread.

There's nowt so strange as folk🙃

How many of you who advocate we take on this debt would go more often if the stadium was bigger?

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

6 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

What time Broady? Do you not have a memory? I'm pretty sure that's the right one...

I don't know who Mr Footy is but he started the thread.

There's nowt so strange as folk🙃

How many of you who advocate we take on this debt would go more often if the stadium was bigger?

Then I don't understand your posting NN.

 

You pre-fixed the quote by Mr. Footy with the following statement:

"And yet just a few months ago Broady was on about dwindling attendances and expanding the ground would have been out of the question :-"

I have always been broadly in favour of stadium expansion, whilst being aware of the problems and dangers.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,777]

If we survive this season, we'll have Premier League riches next year plus a windfall from Aarons/Godfrey/Lewis: one or two of them will likely be snapped up by a top club for big money. Could that be a perfect opportunity? A little bit of short-term pain for long-term gain: as has been said, the population of the city and surrounding areas should increase in time. The problem is that it would cost a lot of money for even a small increase. Molineux cost £18m for three thousand extra seats, if I'm not mistaken.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

[splendidrush 699]

Missing the point nigel, it's not about those who regularly attend, it's about allowing for growth over a period of time. I remember when we had several thousand on a waiting list for season tickets, how much has that cost the Club? not just at the time but for every season since and going forward, for the next 10,20, 30 years. 

....and it's only a debt if you have to fund it from existing budgets, if the cost of the build is funded by the extra ticket sales, you could call it an investment. 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Broady, if you actually clicked the link it would all become clear.

I know you have broadly been in favour buddy. But only during the up turns. During the down turns you worry about dwindling attendances like the rest of us.

Think about a dog being not just for Christmas 🐩

Edited May 20, 2019 by nutty nigel

[nutty nigel 7,509]

3 minutes ago, splendidrush said:

Missing the point nigel, it's not about those who regularly attend, it's about allowing for growth over a period of time. I remember when we had several thousand on a waiting list for season tickets, how much has that cost the Club? not just at the time but for every season since and going forward, for the next 10,20, 30 years. 

....and it's only a debt if you have to fund it from existing budgets, if the cost of the build is funded by the extra ticket sales, you could call it an investment. 

That is the point though. If it's funded by extra ticket sales we only sell the the extra tickets when we are in the PL. At the time we are relegated and have our income decimated we still have to find the money from the ticket sales which aren't happening.

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

4 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Broady, if you actually clicked the link it would all become clear.

I know you have broadly been in favour buddy. But only during the up turns. During the down turns you worry about dwindling attendances like the rest of us.

Think about a dog being not just for Christmas 🐩

Oh. I get it.

The confusion is my fault as I neglected to use quote marks for the first sentence, which was another's remark. My own view re: Ipswich fans was the sentence after that.

Hence:

"In the meantime losses/debt will pile up and crowds will dwindle."

I never like that kind of talk and it is entirely reminiscent of the kind of stuff coming from those down the road on a consistent basis.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

3 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Oh. I get it.

The confusion is my fault as I neglected to use quote marks for the first sentence, which was another's remark. My own view re: Ipswich fans was the sentence after that.

Hence:

"In the meantime losses/debt will pile up and crowds will dwindle."

I never like that kind of talk and it is entirely reminiscent of the kind of stuff coming from those down the road on a consistent basis.

Fair enough Broady. I got that wrong. I remembered the thread for the pantwetting about dwindling attendances. Your pants remained dry throughout🙃👍

[splendidrush 699]

11 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

That is the point though. If it's funded by extra ticket sales we only sell the the extra tickets when we are in the PL. At the time we are relegated and have our income decimated we still have to find the money from the ticket sales which aren't happening.

As I've already mentioned, we're going to have to renew our facilities at some stage. Are you advocating that we rebuild the main stand as is, or would you accept that it would be the ideal opportunity to add another 3,000 on the gate?

[nutty nigel 7,509]

3 minutes ago, splendidrush said:

As I've already mentioned, we're going to have to renew our facilities at some stage. Are you advocating that we rebuild the main stand as is, or would you accept that it would be the ideal opportunity to add another 3,000 on the gate?

I'd consider it if we needed the extra capacity in the downturns. Success in football is cyclical. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,777]

31 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I'd consider it if we needed the extra capacity in the downturns. Success in football is cyclical. 

Success in football is cyclical, but population growth is constant, as is the regeneration of stadia by other clubs- we don't want to be left behind.

It will need to be done at some point in the future, regardless of whether we're in the Premier League or the Championship. The only situation in which it may not pay off is if we 'do an Ipswich'.

[splendidrush 699]

Agree with you Wacky, it seems that every time I put a point forward to negate concerns regarding expansion, there's a counter argument fraught with conditions that only exist if we're in 1p5wich's position. Sure football is cyclical but on average we're an upper Championship lower Premiership Club, have been for almost 50 years. If we're going to maintain that position we have to invest in infrastructure. 

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

I suggest that we all go around grasping our half-empty glasses, wallowing in our permanent little 'Ol Norwich' perspective on things and continue to be the shrinking violets of the football world on the basis that we are bound to get relegated eventually, the population of the city will lose all interest in NCFC and it is therefore destined to eventually  join all the others in being a debt laden football club that is eventually doomed to financial suicide.

On the other hand we could be positive about things and consider our propensity for getting promoted ( compare that with our 'stuck in the mud' rivals,) to the point of being the No.1 yo-yo club (not entirely bad from many angles,) our consistently healthy level of support, our lack of indebtedness, our Academy One status, the fact that we are on the cusp of reaping a fortune, our apparently stable governing set-up (for now)  and, like many a business look to expand when things are going well. 

Like everything there is a need for balance and this would suggest that, with a few successful seasons at the top table  expansion and expenditure on the infrastructure would be viable and necessary.

Even if we go down yet again at the first try then we will surely be among the favourites to go back up in any case. Or do the shrinking violets even deny this?

 

Joke, joke, joke.

Edited May 20, 2019 by BroadstairsR

[nutty nigel 7,509]

In the last 10 years we have changed division 7 times? We are hardly Ipswich.

I honestly don't care what the stadium looks like on TV either🙃