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kirku

LMA Awards

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Wilder won it. Farke, Guardiola and Klopp nominated - what am I missing here? All of the nominees achieved far more than the the winner.

I know we see most things through yellow and green spectacles but I'm really struggling to see a logical argument as to why Wilder has won two awards over Farke. Is it simply lack of media exposure?

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The LMA committee is a bit of an old boys club (including Big Sam, who recently had a rant about ‘German reserve team coaches). 

Wilder has done an excellent job at Sheff U, on tiny resources (less than Norwich’s) and is tactically innovative. 

I don’t begrudge him the win. The real indication that these awards are bias is Harford getting League One award over Stendle. That makes zero sense. 

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5 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

The LMA committee is a bit of an old boys club (including Big Sam, who recently had a rant about ‘German reserve team coaches). 

Wilder has done an excellent job at Sheff U, on tiny resources (less than Norwich’s) and is tactically innovative. 

I don’t begrudge him the win. The real indication that these awards are bias is Harford getting League One award over Stendle. That makes zero sense. 

I was about to say same about Harford. Didn't He only take over in January?

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28 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

The LMA committee is a bit of an old boys club (including Big Sam, who recently had a rant about ‘German reserve team coaches). 

Wilder has done an excellent job at Sheff U, on tiny resources (less than Norwich’s) and is tactically innovative. 

 I don’t begrudge him the win. The real indication that these awards are bias is Harford getting League One award over Stendle. That makes zero sense. 

That could be the part I'm missing then, as I thought they had a bigger budget than us (mainly due to the Egan signing and the number of players they had on loan from big prem teams)

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50 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

on tiny resources (less than Norwich’s)

They spent £4.1m on one player ! 😉

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10 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

They spent £4.1m on one player ! 😉

I'd imagine they have a much smaller wage budget.

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Net spend of minus £6m actually. Don't get me wrong, I'm quite surprised that Wilder won this, and the award could equally have gone to the other nominees, including Farke. I can only guess that the other Managers have taken into account where we were when Wilder took over 3 years ago, 11th in league one. 

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In all walks of life these sort of awards are largely down to who's mates with who, discussions/lobbying in the background & general BS.  Football isn't exactly immune to that sort of thing, let's face it.  You can make good arguments for both Wilder and Farke, in the end who really cares ?

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15 minutes ago, Blademark said:

Net spend of minus £6m actually. Don't get me wrong, I'm quite surprised that Wilder won this, and the award could equally have gone to the other nominees, including Farke. I can only guess that the other Managers have taken into account where we were when Wilder took over 3 years ago, 11th in league one. 

When you frame it like that, it is a very impressive rise

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I don't think it's an issue. It's almost obvious, as there has been a glut of pundits banging on about "British managers" and how "we need them in the Premier League" etc. But a lot of those respected, British managers have very archaic ideas when it comes to playing football. And the younger ones, who are perhaps more influenced by the continental approach, aren't really getting a chance at big clubs just now or haven't proved themselves.

To give Wilder his credit, he has been pretty forward thinking in his approach to the game and brought Sheff Utd up through two leagues to now be in the Prem for the first time in years. That's quite an impressive feat.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Blademark said:

Net spend of minus £6m actually. Don't get me wrong, I'm quite surprised that Wilder won this, and the award could equally have gone to the other nominees, including Farke. I can only guess that the other Managers have taken into account where we were when Wilder took over 3 years ago, 11th in league one. 

Yeh, but that's nothing,  12 months ago we were below Ipswich..........................

Edited by Crabbycanary3
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2 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

You can make good arguments for both Wilder and Farke, in the end who really cares ?

Recognition like these awards can help improve their career prospects, so it may be a factor in leaving the club; if they feel it's due to "little old Norwich"

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1 minute ago, BobLoz3 said:

I don't think it's an issue. It's almost obvious, as there has been a glut of pundits banging on about "British managers" and how "we need them in the Premier League" etc. But a lot of those respected, British managers have very archaic ideas when it comes to playing football. And the younger ones, who are perhaps more influenced by the continental approach, aren't really getting a chance at big clubs just now or haven't proved themselves.

That's an impact of the vast financial disparity between the Prem and the Champs, you almost exclusively have to get a team promoted to manage in the Prem - as clubs see the financial risks as too great.

Case in point, Sean Dyche would never have been given a Prem job if he hadn't got Burnley promoted.

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1 hour ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

The LMA committee is a bit of an old boys club (including Big Sam, who recently had a rant about ‘German reserve team coaches). 

Wilder has done an excellent job at Sheff U, on tiny resources (less than Norwich’s) and is tactically innovative

I don’t begrudge him the win. The real indication that these awards are bias is Harford getting League One award over Stendle. That makes zero sense. 

Do you mean 'tactically innovative for an English manager'?

If they're using that as a reason, then i would say that Farke has a stronger case, for innovation, when it comes to the Championship, with a brand of football that hasn't been used before.

It'll be really interesting to see how innovative Wilder gets in the Prem 

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Would I rather Farke have won the LMA award and come second in the league, or won the Championship and not won the award? Ummm, I wonder...

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1 minute ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

Do you mean 'tactically innovative for an English manager'?

If they're using that as a reason, then i would say that Farke has a stronger case, for innovation, when it comes to the Championship, with a brand of football that hasn't been used before.

It'll be really interesting to see how innovative Wilder gets in the Prem 

Wilder’s overlapping centre-backs is seen as globally innovative. Coaches from across Europe have been to watch Sheff U play to study it. 

Norwich play great football, but it is grounded in the Pep’s style (which is influenced by Cruyff and Bielsa) and is a variation on what several other Premier League and Championship clubs attempt to play. Farke has been the most successful in implementing it in the Championship. 

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5 minutes ago, Grando said:

Would I rather Farke have won the LMA award and come second in the league, or won the Championship and not won the award? Ummm, I wonder...

Hello Strawman, my old friend

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Personally I would say that watching Farke/Pep/Cruyff/Bielsa (not a bad list by anyone's imagination) type football is much better than Wilder's style. I would also say that WIlder needs to offer more than overlapping centre backs in the Prem (Like I said, time will tell) Up front he needs to be more than 'effective' which the general opinion last season, was that was what he achieved with Sheff Utd. Cannot take away anything he has achieved, with a 'limited' budget/team, but I would rather watch us all day long than Sheff Utd.

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It's hard to complain too much about this. Wilder has had a great season and so has Farke - both have been recognised among the likes of Klopp and Pep.

Obviously there can only be one winner with vote the fairest way to decide. The LMA know a lot more about the trials, tribulations and struggles a manager needs to overcome in football management than I do.

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7 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Wilder’s overlapping centre-backs is seen as globally innovative. Coaches from across Europe have been to watch Sheff U play to study it. 

Norwich play great football, but it is grounded in the Pep’s style (which is influenced by Cruyff and Bielsa) and is a variation on what several other Premier League and Championship clubs attempt to play. Farke has been the most successful in implementing it in the Championship. 

Thanks, was completely unaware of this. Found this article which goes into in a bit and found it really interesting: https://medium.com/@Mase159/sheffield-uniteds-3-5-2-the-art-of-the-overlapping-centre-back-aed8c1110fe0

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As it stands, if both us and Sheff Utd played a few games against Premiership opposition right now, I would be more than confident that we would offer far more problems to the opposition than Sheff Utd could.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, kirku said:

Hello Strawman, my old friend

I didn't realise I needed to hit the irony emoji!

Edited by Grando

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I've learnt it's best not to take the LMA guys too seriously. If you're not english and a bit rough around the edges, you ain't getting the award.

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Personally i am pleased for Wilder, he has done a superb job for Sheff Utd. That Daniel Farke was in the frame for an award has to be a very positive thing and I am just so happy that we not only got promoted, we also won the league title. I know we see Sheff Utd as our "rivals" in terms of Premiership survival and because of that spat between us (both managers appeared to have moved on from that), but personally i think it would be great if both Norwich City and Sheff Utd stay up next season.........

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6 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I've learnt it's best not to take the LMA guys too seriously. If you're not english and a bit rough around the edges, you ain't getting the award.

You do realise it's the actual managers who vote, including the foreign ones? 

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1 hour ago, Grando said:

Would I rather Farke have won the LMA award and come second in the league, or won the Championship and not won the award? Ummm, I wonder...

This. 

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22 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

Personally i am pleased for Wilder, he has done a superb job for Sheff Utd. That Daniel Farke was in the frame for an award has to be a very positive thing and I am just so happy that we not only got promoted, we also won the league title. I know we see Sheff Utd as our "rivals" in terms of Premiership survival and because of that spat between us (both managers appeared to have moved on from that), but personally i think it would be great if both Norwich City and Sheff Utd stay up next season......…

This. And yes, the point is nothing to do with Old Men in suits (surprising for a Football Committee it must be said) because the league managers association members (ie the managers) vote for this.

Seems to me that that the two managers have got over the bus being late at Bramall Lane ,  and have since been  complimentary about each others success. SUFC and us have done amazingly well. You only have to see West Brom and Villa last night, with very expensive loan players , battling it out to finish 4th and 5th. The salaries of Mings and Abrahams alone would knock a hole in our wage budget.

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1 hour ago, Blademark said:

You do realise it's the actual managers who vote, including the foreign ones? 

I know what you're saying but there is also a hierachy in place... Such as a CEO etc.

In fact, that very same CEO dismissed Malky and his mate's horrid homophobic and racist tweets as 'banter' as they felt the need to protect that.

So, Hogesar makes a good point. The LMA (from the functional business side) are clowns.

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