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The Great Mass Debater

Additions for next season

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GK

Think Krul should be our number . McGovern given new contract when I thought he'd be released. Dont think we need any more back up, so no changes for me

 

Defence

Happy with the Centre-backs. If we keep Klose and Hanley, I think our 4 are good enough. Know nothing of Heise so cant really comment. Assuming Husband is off, not sure if we have adequate back-up at present for Jamal. With Pinto leaving and Passlack only a loan we will be needing a

NEW RIGHT-BACK

 

Midfield

Think we need a new defensive midfielder. Tettey cant play every game, if we're even keeping him. Trybull needs help. So...

NEW DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER

Think losing Emi in the last few games showed we need to be able to bring in someone who can do his job. I think we need at least a

NEW ATTACKING MIDFIELDER

 

Forward

Srbeny is not a Premier League striker. We wont keep Oliveira. Rhodes is not our player. Which leaves us only Pukki. Id therefore say we need

TWO NEW STRIKERS

 

 

So five additions needed for me

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Five necessities and three hopefullies.

The necessities are a goalkeeper to compete with Krul, a right back to cover for Aarons, a defensive midfielder to take over from Trybull, a winger to compete with (and probably take the place of) Hernandez and a striker to compete with Pukki.

The hopeful ones are a centre back to replace Hanley and possibly take over from Zimmermann (we'll see how he goes in the first month or two next season), another winger to replace Cantwell should we decide to loan him out for more regular football and another striker if Rhodes doesn't stay on. 

We should do our best to bring in the optional three, but if we can't find anyone of the right quality for the right price it wouldn't be a catastrophe like leaving us with just Bennett, Martin and Bassong as our only three centre back options for half a season.

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1 minute ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

I disagree with some of that. I think Onel is going to be dynamite nextseason. Id certainly keep both Hanley and Klose. I think Zimmermann will do wel next season too

Hernandez will be very useful, certainly, but I think we can upgrade and then use Hernandez as an impact sub. I'm not saying that Hernandez hasn't got the quality to start, because he does, however we definitely need a new winger in the squad and it's that if possible, we need to sign the best we possibly can within our budget and ideally that means someone better than we currently have.

Hernandez would then be like Adama Traore at Wolves: starts from time to time, but more often used as a very dangerous weapon from the bench.

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For me a young GK, a defensive midfielder, might be unrealistic but could we attract Peter etebo from Stoke? He's pure class and would fit us perfectly. A young winger on loan, maybe someone like Harry Wilson to compete with Hernandez and a forward who's good in the air to give us another option. Aside from that I would be looking at more Maddison or Buendia type gambles, all it takes is for one to pay off and it'll be worth it, really don't think we need much for the first team

Edited by Christoph Stiepermann

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23 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

For me a young GK, a defensive midfielder, might be unrealistic but could we attract Peter etebo from Stoke? He's pure class and would fit us perfectly. A young winger on loan, maybe someone like Harry Wilson to compete with Hernandez and a forward who's good in the air to give us another option. Aside from that I would be looking at more Maddison or Buendia type gambles, all it takes is for one to pay off and it'll be worth it, really don't think we need much for the first team

You don't think we need cover for Max?..... surprising. 

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I think the first 11 deserve to start next season but some quality cover is needed to strengthen, especially in the wide positions. 

It may have been a different ending if Max / Jamal / Onel / Emi had suffered a spell out with injury, we were very lucky with all 4 in that regard as the balance was clearly effected when Emi was suspended.

Same with cover for Pukki, don't think Srbeny will be the answer, neither Rhodes and we won't see Oliviera again.

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As I see it, this is the current first team, with first choice backup for each position.

image.png.2b474e193a79695bb860b4dc0c36238a.png

With Pinto leaving, we need cover for right back. Obviously some of our midfielders can play in a range of positions but we do seem to be lacking cover on the wing. Anyone else we bring in would be competing with (or replacing) one or more of the names listed. As it is such an important position, you would expect to have more options up front so I definitely expect us to be signing another striker or two.

I expect only 3 or 4 signings: RB, AMR, S (maybe 2). Unless we move anyone else on...

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I like business done early so players can settle.

But can see us bringing in the list below in a slightly different order.

Defensive midfielder tops my list, we need someone is ready to be physical and a beast in our midfield. Trybull and tettey are capable but I think an upgrade here can be massive in making us more comfortable in the way we want to play against a much higher opposition. They will be covering when Aaron's and Lewis get chances to break forward so we need I think if we can upgrade here we must.

Attacking midfielder, we saw the weakness of the squad of only having Hernandez as a recognised winger. I think we need another.

Right back cover is obvious.

2 strikers, one in pukki mould and 3rd choice to be a slightly different striker to help chase a game. As said previously I believe that 3rd striker role will be Jordan Rhodes.

I do think a good keeper to challenge Krul, possibly from the European leagues. The 2020 season McGovern and Krul are out of contract, if I am right, maybe both have extension options. But a keeper with experience in another league wanting his chance is good to bring in.

I think we will announce Rhodes early in the summer, I think we will then add a winger and right back.

Finally I think we will announce a defensive midfield and second striker later in the summer.

As these last two are key signings I can see negotiations going through over the summer.

but I believe Rhodes, a right back and attacking midfielder will be the early signings.

With big earners leaving it is going to be an exciting summer

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Before you all get too carried away, we will also have to abide by the EPL squad restrictions.  I'm a bit out of touch on this but what are the regulations for squad membership for EPL next season - are they changing from the current one w2hich I have copied below.

What is a Premier League squad list?

Each Premier League club submit a squad list after each transfer window closes.

It can contain no more than 17 players who do not fulfil "Home Grown Player" criteria.

The remainder of the squad, up to a total of 25 players, must be home grown.

Changes to the squad list may be made during the period of a transfer window.

What is a Home-Grown Player?

A "Home-Grown Player" means a player who, irrespective of nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to The Football Association or the Football Association of Wales for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons, or 36 months, before his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21).

Rules on U21 players

Under-21 players are eligible over and above the limit of 25 players per squad. 

Each player is assigned a squad number, which they wear during Premier League matches.

For the 2018/19 campaign Under-21 players will have been born on or after 1 January 1997.

So, if the above still holds true then with the likes of Aarons and Lewis still qualifying as U21's, I think money aside we have some latitude in shifting some of the current squad on and replacing with better quality players.  My analysis of the current squad, which I hope others find useful, is as follows:

Squad member Home / Overseas / U21 In / out Overseas count Home count
Tim Krul Overseas   1 0
Michael McGovern Overseas   1 0
Aston Oxborough U21   0 0
Jon McCracken U21   0 0
Christoph Zimmermann Overseas   1 0
Jamal Lewis U21   0 0
Timm Klose Overseas   1 0
Felix Passlack Overseas Release 0 0
Philip Heise Overseas   1 0
Grant Hanley Home   0 1
Max Aarons U21   0 0
James Husband Home Sell 0 0
Sean Raggett Home Sell 0 0
Marcel Franke Overseas Sell 0 0
Ben Godfrey Home   0 1
Mario Vrancic Overseas   1 0
Moritz Leitner Overseas   1 0
Emiliano Buendia Overseas   1 0
Marco Stiepermann Overseas   1 0
Tom Trybull Overseas   1 0
Kenny McLean Overseas   1 0
Onel Hernandez Overseas   1 0
Alex Tettey Overseas   1 0
Louis Thompson Home   0 1
Todd Cantwell Home   0 1
Ben Marshall Home Sell 0 0
Matt Jarvis Home Release 0 0
Stephen Naismith Overseas Release 0 0
Yanic Wildschut Overseas Release 0 0
Jordan Rhodes Home Release 0 0
Teemu Pukki Overseas   1 0
Carlton Morris Home Sell 0 0
Dennis Srbeny Overseas Sell 0 0
Nelson Oliveira Overseas Release 0 0
      14 4

 

I believe my decisions on which current players to retain aren't that controversial (although I know some feel Rhodes & Morris can do a job I think we need to bite the bullet and try and get in players for the future), which means there are still potentially 3 overseas positions available (maybe 4 if Heise is sold on and could be 5 if Tettey is released) and 4 home players.  This leaves a very busy close season for Webber as that's 12-14 players being moved on and potentially 9 coming in.  And I've no doubt plenty of surprises yet!

 

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I think we need:

1. A Keeper as cover / competing for starter. Krul is good enough to be No.1 next season but McGovern is not good enough to be No.2. We need someone to compete with Krul, not necessarily replace. 

2. Right back cover. We have no natural cover for Aarons.

3. Defensive Midfielder replacement, someone to start. We need an upgrade here. Trybull as cover. Ideally a big unit, who is fast and strong but also with more technical ability than Tettey to suit our passing game. I realise that I have described Yaya Toure and these combinations are very hard to come by within our budget...

4. A winger with pace to compete (and rotate) with Hernandez. Preferably two.

5. A striker as cover for Pukki.

If Klose and or Hanley are not here next season (I have a strong suspicion Hanley will leave and I am not sure about Klose), we need replacements for these too.

I'd consider numbers 3 & 4 as our biggest priority. A good chunk of our alloted transfer cash needs to be on a good defensive midfielder.

Edited by All the Germans

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33 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

What is a Home-Grown Player?

A "Home-Grown Player" means a player who, irrespective of nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to The Football Association or the Football Association of Wales for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons, or 36 months, before his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21).

Squad member Home / Overseas / U21 In / out Overseas count Home count
Tim Krul Overseas   1 0
         

 

I believe Tim Krul counts as homegrown, because he signed for Newcastle when he was 17, and was there for the next 11 years.

https://www.canaries.co.uk/News/2018/july/norwich-city-sign-dutch-goalkeeper-tim-krul/

Head Coach Daniel Farke said: "In general, it’s a pretty smart deal. After Angus [Gunn] left us, we were searching for another goalkeeper and when there’s a chance to sign a guy like Tim Krul you have to try to do this because he’s a very experienced player at this level.

"He’s played over 150 games in the Premier League. He’s 30-years-old has been involved in World Cups and played eight games for the Dutch national team.

"In addition to that, he’s a homegrown player and on a free transfer so there were many, many reasons why we wanted to sign him."

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32 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

I believe my decisions on which current players to retain aren't that controversial (although I know some feel Rhodes & Morris can do a job I think we need to bite the bullet and try and get in players for the future), which means there are still potentially 3 overseas positions available (maybe 4 if Heise is sold on and could be 5 if Tettey is released) and 4 home players.  This leaves a very busy close season for Webber as that's 12-14 players being moved on and potentially 9 coming in.  And I've no doubt plenty of surprises yet!

Krul qualifies as homegrown because he spent three seasons at Newcastle prior to starting a season as a 21-year-old.

So we currently have 13 overseas players we are likely to want to keep, giving us 4 spaces. I don't think you have to register a full 25 players either. I don't think the squad registration rules are going to cause us any hindrance whatsoever. They would not have renewed McGovern's deal if they thought it was going to be an issue.

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A consensus that we need cover for Aarons. We have been linked with Mehdi Zeffane, who is about to be out of contract at Rennes, about to turn 27, and apparently can play right-back or left-back, and even a bit of wide midfield.

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Okay have adjusted my records accordingly - the table now reads:

Squad member Home / Overseas / U21 In / out Overseas count Home count
Tim Krul Home   0 1
Michael McGovern Overseas   1 0
Aston Oxborough U21   0 0
Jon McCracken U21   0 0
Christoph Zimmermann Overseas   1 0
Jamal Lewis U21   0 0
Timm Klose Overseas   1 0
Felix Passlack Overseas Release 0 0
Philip Heise Overseas   1 0
Grant Hanley Home   0 1
Max Aarons U21   0 0
James Husband Home Sell 0 0
Sean Raggett Home Sell 0 0
Marcel Franke Overseas Sell 0 0
Ben Godfrey Home   0 1
Mario Vrancic Overseas   1 0
Moritz Leitner Overseas   1 0
Emiliano Buendia Overseas   1 0
Marco Stiepermann Overseas   1 0
Tom Trybull Overseas   1 0
Kenny McLean Overseas   1 0
Onel Hernandez Overseas   1 0
Alex Tettey Overseas   1 0
Louis Thompson Home   0 1
Todd Cantwell Home   0 1
Ben Marshall Home Sell 0 0
Matt Jarvis Home Release 0 0
Stephen Naismith Overseas Release 0 0
Yanic Wildschut Overseas Release 0 0
Jordan Rhodes Home Release 0 0
Teemu Pukki Overseas   1 0
Carlton Morris Home Sell 0 0
Dennis Srbeny Overseas Sell 0 0
Nelson Oliveira Overseas Release 0 0
      13 5

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I'm not as concerend with the idea of new signings upsetting squad harmony as others for a couple of reasons.

1- Webber and Farke have proven to be excellent judges of character so far.

2- The current squad will be well aware that professional football is ruthless and they'll have to earn their right to start in the Premier League just as they did in the Championship no matter who comes in.

A couple of moves that feel obvious to me...

1- Loan out Cantwell to a Championship team for the season. Think he needs a run of game time.

2- Selling Ben Marshall to a Championship team- he won't lack suitors.

In terms of incoming the priority for me is a defensive midfielder then a goalkeeper, then a striker. If this £20m budget is actually the case then Webber will have to make strategic use of the loan and free transfer market but I trust he knows what he's doing.

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I'm not too worried about the effect of the home-grown rules.

The PL seems a little more relaxed than the EFL, as I don't believe there to be any restrictions for match squads (I could be wrong here?). This means we are more than able to bring in some youngsters into the squad to make up the numbers.

Therefore we could feasibly sign 5 or 6 more foreign players, assuming the expected players (Oliveira etc) are shipped out. I do not think we will bring in more than 5 first team players anyway.

In addition to strengthening the areas that others have mentioned - I would love to see us carry on signing young prospects who might not be in the frame for the first xi straight away (Godfrey and Maddison etc). These signings have paid off more for us in the last few years, than the bigger transfers.

 

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2 minutes ago, HertsCanary93 said:

I'm not too worried about the effect of the home-grown rules.

The PL seems a little more relaxed than the EFL, as I don't believe there to be any restrictions for match squads (I could be wrong here?). This means we are more than able to bring in some youngsters into the squad to make up the numbers.

Therefore we could feasibly sign 5 or 6 more foreign players, assuming the expected players (Oliveira etc) are shipped out. I do not think we will bring in more than 5 first team players anyway.

In addition to strengthening the areas that others have mentioned - I would love to see us carry on signing young prospects who might not be in the frame for the first xi straight away (Godfrey and Maddison etc). These signings have paid off more for us in the last few years, than the bigger transfers.

 

My thought is that while we've got a bit of cash we should be be looking to stock up on some home grown players for if we go back down.

If we do get relegated I'd expect we'd lose Aarons and Godfrey at least which would harm our regularly playing home grown quota at Championship level. So unless we're super confident of having two or three younger players breaking through then it might be sensible to boost our quota while we can.

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50 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

I don´t want to bring the whole Brexit debate into this thread, but I believe there is a chance of overseas players being limited after Brexit comes into effect...if it ever does

FA pushing to limit numbers of overseas players

Indeed, a full Brexit is very unlikely.  So is getting any sort of Brexit through by the opening of the transfer window.  Very unlikely if not impossible to change the rules half way through a process like a transfer window, especially something relying on the window as income and tax generative as the EPL - that really would cut your nose off to spite your face.  And to upset a substantial part of the electorate.  I think the current rules will be what is worked to.

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1 hour ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

I don´t want to bring the whole Brexit debate into this thread, but I believe there is a chance of overseas players being limited after Brexit comes into effect...if it ever does

FA pushing to limit numbers of overseas players

Nothing will change for the upcoming season (although if the UK crashes out without a deal in October the winter window could see EU players requiring a work permit, depending on how the UK manages immigration). 

Scrapping work permits in return for less non-homegrown players would probably massively benefit a club like Norwich. Imports from non-European leagues would be even more cost effective. If this FA plan is implemented then it would be phased in over several seasons. 

The EFL’s rules are significantly worse for Norwich and are getting stricter again next season.  

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23 hours ago, splendidrush said:

You don't think we need cover for Max?..... surprising. 

 

I would say that would fall under the bracket of young, unproven players. I was mainly talking about first team additions I'd like to see. I don't like the practice of signing backup or cover for a club like ours who don't have money to spare. Any purchase should either be a first teamer or one for the future. If Max Aarons is fit next season he will start, any senior right back we bring in who's happy to potentially sit on the bench or play u23's all year will 99% likely not be good enough for us in the PL, I don't think we really want or need a right sided james Husband.

 

Pretty sure Godfrey and maybe Heise could play there if we were desperate, Hernandez could too in a back 5 formantion, or if we sign a young player as cover he could as well. To be honest with ourcurrent attractive position I'd like to see a lot of our squad made up of these types of players. I know they're hard to find but I trust our recruitment team to find us a few more gems. We'll need them when our current young stars inevitably depart

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5 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

 

I would say that would fall under the bracket of young, unproven players. I was mainly talking about first team additions I'd like to see. I don't like the practice of signing backup or cover for a club like ours who don't have money to spare. Any purchase should either be a first teamer or one for the future. If Max Aarons is fit next season he will start, any senior right back we bring in who's happy to potentially sit on the bench or play u23's all year will 99% likely not be good enough for us in the PL, I don't think we really want or need a right sided james Husband.

 

Pretty sure Godfrey and maybe Heise could play there if we were desperate, Hernandez could too in a back 5 formantion, or if we sign a young player as cover he could as well. To be honest with ourcurrent attractive position I'd like to see a lot of our squad made up of these types of players. I know they're hard to find but I trust our recruitment team to find us a few more gems. We'll need them when our current young stars inevitably depart

Cover for Aarons is an absolute priority for me. Imagine he gets injured in September: what happens? We have to play for four months with either Godfrey (not a right back and needed at centre back), Heise (not a right back and not even first choice in his main position)  or Hernandez as wing back (not his main position, he can't defend, and we'd have to play an entirely different formation).

There is no way any of the above situations are preferable to not signing a specialist right back to cover Aarons- even if it's a cheap option who is not quite Premier League standard.

Edited by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

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10 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Cover for Aarons is an absolute priority for me. Imagine he gets injured in September: what happens? We have to play for four months with either Godfrey (not a right back and needed at centre back), Heise (not a right back and not even first choice in his main position)  or Hernandez as wing back (not his main position, he can't defend, and we'd have to play an entirely different formation).

There is no way any of the above situations are preferable to not signing a specialist right back to cover Aarons- even if it's a cheap option who is not quite Premier League standard.

I realise that it's a big 'if' for many reasons - but Louis Thompson played at right back earlier in his career and has done so for us on a couple of occasions I think. Heisse is all left foot and I think it would be  difficult for him to play at right back (hope I'm wrong though 😉 ). 

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13 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Cover for Aarons is an absolute priority for me. Imagine he gets injured in September: what happens? We have to play for four months with either Godfrey (not a right back and needed at centre back), Heise (not a right back and not even first choice in his main position)  or Hernandez as wing back (not his main position, he can't defend, and we'd have to play an entirely different formation).

There is no way any of the above situations are preferable to not signing a specialist right back to cover Aarons- even if it's a cheap option who is not quite Premier League standard.

 

We have a ridiculously small budget for next season by Premier League standards and any player good enough to step into our first team is going to likely eat up a lot of that. I personally wouldn't waste any money on a squad player. A teenager with potential? Sure. But I can't see any cheap, backup brought in being remotely close to PL level, the Max Aarons getting injured in September scenario would be equally as disastrous whether we had Ben Godfrey or a mediocre Championship player as cover, no matter what our survival chances would take a sharp downturn. An option I perhaps didn't consider is a loan from a top club, like Passlack, but again a player like this wouldn't come close to replicating what Aarons does for us.

 

So yeah, I'll add that to my wishlist as well, because that scenario does worry me, it could even be Passlack himself if he's happy to potentially not play again for a year, but I seriously doubt we'd sign a senior player as cover because we might has well have just kept Pinto in that case. 

Edited by Christoph Stiepermann

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40 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

 

We have a ridiculously small budget for next season by Premier League standards and any player good enough to step into our first team is going to likely eat up a lot of that. I personally wouldn't waste any money on a squad player. A teenager with potential? Sure. But I can't see any cheap, backup brought in being remotely close to PL level, the Max Aarons getting injured in September scenario would be equally as disastrous whether we had Ben Godfrey or a mediocre Championship player as cover, no matter what our survival chances would take a sharp downturn. An option I perhaps didn't consider is a loan from a top club, like Passlack, but again a player like this wouldn't come close to replicating what Aarons does for us.

 

So yeah, I'll add that to my wishlist as well, because that scenario does worry me, it could even be Passlack himself if he's happy to potentially not play again for a year, but I seriously doubt we'd sign a senior player as cover because we might has well have just kept Pinto in that case. 

 

40 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

 

We have a ridiculously small budget for next season by Premier League standards and any player good enough to step into our first team is going to likely eat up a lot of that. I personally wouldn't waste any money on a squad player. A teenager with potential? Sure. But I can't see any cheap, backup brought in being remotely close to PL level, the Max Aarons getting injured in September scenario would be equally as disastrous whether we had Ben Godfrey or a mediocre Championship player as cover, no matter what our survival chances would take a sharp downturn. An option I perhaps didn't consider is a loan from a top club, like Passlack, but again a player like this wouldn't come close to replicating what Aarons does for us.

 

So yeah, I'll add that to my wishlist as well, because that scenario does worry me, it could even be Passlack himself if he's happy to potentially not play again for a year, but I seriously doubt we'd sign a senior player as cover because we might has well have just kept Pinto in that case. 

Small budget or not, we can't just spend everything on two or three stars and hope no first team players get injured. We have to have two players for every position and that means using our available funds to plug every hole. Sticking round pegs in square holes isn't good enough.

43 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

I realise that it's a big 'if' for many reasons - but Louis Thompson played at right back earlier in his career and has done so for us on a couple of occasions I think. Heisse is all left foot and I think it would be  difficult for him to play at right back (hope I'm wrong though 😉 ). 

Thompson? He probably wouldn't have been part of our plans for next season in his main position had we stayed in the Championship, never mind moving up to Premier League level and then playing out of position.

Regarding Pinto, we're only allowed 17 non-homegrown players, so maybe that's why he's been released. A cheap, experienced right back on a free who is happy to be a backup player would suffice, and a homegrown one would be ideal. Examples would be someone like Danny Simpson, Carl Jenkinson or Phil Bardsley. Would they be good enough and would they fit into our style? I'm not convinced, but at least they're actual right backs.

Edited by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

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