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dylanisabaddog

Relegated without Buendia?

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2 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

That's the equivalent of 40 points from 45 games which is relegation form. 

... you tell 1p5wich that ūüėĀ

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Lol This was a squad ( not even a team ) effort. There were many Emi’s in the season when players were injured and many ( myself included ) thought well we gave it a great go but that has probably done us ie injuries to Tettey, Klose, Leightner, Cantwell, Vrancic, Hernandez in the early days to name but a few. However every player coming in meant that only Hernandez and Bundeia long term managed to get their places back.

You can equally argue would we have finished 3rd had McClean not come back in as we went on a run of 8 wins, 4 draws, 1 and possibly 2 wins. Emi does a particular job which because of the type of player he is stands out on the eye. Pukki at times has looked tosh but then from nowhere pops up with a goal, but that’s his role in the team to score goals. They all have a role and those roles were and are coached by Farke.

I honestly think that we have  ( with a couple of additions ) a squad capable of surviving ( and more ) at the higher level. If your post is correct OP then I would have to rethink my thoughts as if one player is that important then a premier league manager with the talents that they have at their disposal would easily be able to nullify one player ( unless you are Messi or similar ).

 

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The one thing we can all agree on, he’s one hell of a player, his all round game, desire and drive is second to none.

 

Farke has definitely got the best out of him, long may it continue.

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This is why I don't rely on stats. They may be useful, an aid, but in the end only a guide. Nobody knew if Teemu was going to have a season like he has had. Nobody knew Max would come in and be awarded Young Player of the Year.

Football is the greatest team game on the planet and it is because of the emotional side of the game. Nothing to do with cold facts.

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Posted (edited)

Emi has been a bit of a talisman for sure. Yet some of our draws without him were (arguably) rather unlucky or a keeper had a blinder or we had shocking refereeing or we couldn't quite find our usual clinical finishing. Overall, the team dynamic was still there.

Edited by sonyc

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1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

This is why I don't rely on stats. They may be useful, an aid, but in the end only a guide. Nobody knew if Teemu was going to have a season like he has had. Nobody knew Max would come in and be awarded Young Player of the Year.

Football is the greatest team game on the planet and it is because of the emotional side of the game. Nothing to do with cold facts.

Good job we rely on stats, these were the reasons that we were attracted to Bundeia and Pukki. 

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

This is why I don't rely on stats. They may be useful, an aid, but in the end only a guide. Nobody knew if Teemu was going to have a season like he has had. Nobody knew Max would come in and be awarded Young Player of the Year.

Football is the greatest team game on the planet and it is because of the emotional side of the game. Nothing to do with cold facts.

Stats are useful when you want to drill into a specific thing. I read that Allardyce used to focus on the percentage of first passes (after regaining possession) which were forward passes - that specific stat went a long way to helping his wider game plan of getting it forward quicker (‚Äúlumping it‚ÄĚ if you want). He would then do drills in training aimed at getting players to make the first pass a forward one more often.¬†

The wider and less specific the stats become, the less useful they are. Unbeaten in ten or top scorers in the division, or best short passing percentage in the league - what does that help you with really? 

You could be all of those things and still sit mid table - and it doesn’t help the manager figure out why his tactics aren’t working or which players aren’t performing how he wants them to.

Edited by Aggy

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4 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

In the 8 games Emi didn't start this season we got 7 points. That's the equivalent of 40 points from 45 games which is relegation form. 

It's very, very rare that a team gets 40 points in EPL and gets relegated.  So, making me feel more confident we'll be okay.

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Regardless of the stats, Buendia is just another level. By a mile the most exciting prospect I've seen at Norwich.

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I love Emi but frankly I thought Vrancic was more of  a miss towards the end when he was on the bench.

 

The Canaries are more than the sum of their parts - it was a team/squad/club effort.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Well b back said:

Lol This was a squad ( not even a team ) effort. There were many Emi’s in the season when players were injured and many ( myself included ) thought well we gave it a great go but that has probably done us ie injuries to Tettey, Klose, Leightner, Cantwell, Vrancic, Hernandez in the early days to name but a few. However every player coming in meant that only Hernandez and Bundeia long term managed to get their places back.

You can equally argue would we have finished 3rd had McClean not come back in as we went on a run of 8 wins, 4 draws, 1 and possibly 2 wins. Emi does a particular job which because of the type of player he is stands out on the eye. Pukki at times has looked tosh but then from nowhere pops up with a goal, but that’s his role in the team to score goals. They all have a role and those roles were and are coached by Farke.

I honestly think that we have  ( with a couple of additions ) a squad capable of surviving ( and more ) at the higher level. If your post is correct OP then I would have to rethink my thoughts as if one player is that important then a premier league manager with the talents that they have at their disposal would easily be able to nullify one player ( unless you are Messi or similar ).

 

Exactly

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Good job we rely on stats, these were the reasons that we were attracted to Bundeia and Pukki. 

I said as an aid. Not to use literally. We used the stats to help us find the players. Good. But the stats didn't tell us that by moving Stieppermann to centre midfield, we would transform our attacking options. That was decided by training and hunches. 

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A massive leap to come to conclusion OP has. Emi's suspension came at a time we were on one hell of a run, the next 3 games without Emi, in my opinion may not have different outcomes if he had played. Reading, had luck on their side, any other given day, 3-0 or better to us. Wigan, not our best display for sure, but had we won 1-0 or 2-1 there would no complaints. Sheffield Wednesday, scored 2, one a worldy, the other illegal, we spurned a hatful of chances that game, should have been a win.

Emi comes back, so does us winning. Coincidence? Maybe, but we might easily have won that game 3-0 or 4-1, or drew it 1-1. 

As said in the beginning of this post, a massive leap by the OP. If we had not have had Emi from the start, we would have had someone else, and who knows what they may have contributed. It's perfectly plausible that Todd might have been that man and developed his game to go on and be the local hero. 

That said, I love Emi, he's exciting to watch, he has skill and tenacity and will go on to be a Carrow Road great if he stays.

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13 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Good job we rely on stats, these were the reasons that we were attracted to Bundeia and Pukki. 

I said as an aid. Not to use literally. We used the stats to help us find the players. Good. But the stats didn't tell us that by moving Stieppermann to centre midfield, we would transform our attacking options. That was decided by training and hunches. 

I think moving Stiepermann into an attacking midfield was far more than a 'hunch'. That's where he has played basically his whole career- the only reason he was wedged in at left back last year was because Lewis was injured and Husband wasn't good enough.

He wasn't in anyone's first choice XI at the start of the season and I'm sure a few would've been happy to let him go, but I was always of the belief that it would've been senseless to let Stiepermann leave the club before he was at least tried in his proper position. However, I wasn't expecting him to be this good, I'll admit!

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6 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

In the 8 games Emi didn't start this season we got 7 points. That's the equivalent of 40 points from 45 games which is relegation form. 

In the 5 games Max didn't start this season we got 4 points. That's the equivalent of 36 points from 45 games which is bottom of the table / Ipswich form. Following the  nonsense logic of the OP, Paul Lambert was that close (1 player) to getting  in the top two.

 

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2 hours ago, Daz Sparks said:

A massive leap to come to conclusion OP has. Emi's suspension came at a time we were on one hell of a run, the next 3 games without Emi, in my opinion may not have different outcomes if he had played. Reading, had luck on their side, any other given day, 3-0 or better to us. Wigan, not our best display for sure, but had we won 1-0 or 2-1 there would no complaints. Sheffield Wednesday, scored 2, one a worldy, the other illegal, we spurned a hatful of chances that game, should have been a win.

Emi comes back, so does us winning. Coincidence? Maybe, but we might easily have won that game 3-0 or 4-1, or drew it 1-1. 

As said in the beginning of this post, a massive leap by the OP. If we had not have had Emi from the start, we would have had someone else, and who knows what they may have contributed. It's perfectly plausible that Todd might have been that man and developed his game to go on and be the local hero. 

That said, I love Emi, he's exciting to watch, he has skill and tenacity and will go on to be a Carrow Road great if he stays.

Pretty much agree (other than that we started winning when Emi¬†came back in, as we drew at Stokeūüôā!)

This thing about Emi is a bit daft - but I guess a follow-on from that random/annoying stat that we’ve not won a game he’s not played in.  My problem with this is that it includes games where he came on as sub when the game was already won (Forest) and also games where he went off while we weren’t winning (Wigan, Blackburn).  I think we can all agree he’s grown into the side this season and been a great signing to be one several important players, but imo we shouldn’t overstate it.

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Well if we don't win the Championship, all that can be said is we can lay the fault at the feet of Daniel Farke. An unbelievably incompetent management performance, starting with not picking Emi for any of the first five games, not making Emi our penalty taker, and effectively causing Emi to miss 3 games and the team to drop 6 critical points at the business end of the season by getting him sent off as he didn't substitute him. Clearly our tin pot club (and if we don't win the Championship tin pot on Sunday, we won't even be that) don't appreciate or deserve Emi and he should be released from his contract so he can play somewhere where he will be appreciated. Leeds would be an appropriate platform to show off his talent. 

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I believe the OP is using statistics in much the same way a drunk uses a lampost. For support rather than illumination...

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9 hours ago, norfolkbroadslim said:

Who'da thunk it.  The only difference between us and Ipswich is Buendia!

Thanks to Buendia that gap is 63 points and a sack load of cash will be coming to our DS boys and girls ūüôÉ

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8 hours ago, GJP said:

Regardless of the stats, Buendia is just another level. By a mile the most exciting prospect I've seen at Norwich.

Watching some of the highlights of Messi against Liverpool my first reaction was, yeah he's pretty good but he's no Buendia :classic_unsure:

I also think Todd has suffered a little with the inevitable comparison with Buendia when he came in for him during his suspension. Re-watching some of the games earlier in the season Todd looked a real talent, Forest away as an example.

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1 hour ago, Tetteys Jig said:

we once went a year and a half without winning a game without ivo pinto playing...

We managed it for about 114 years before he even joined... ūüėČ

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19 hours ago, makham said:

In the 5 games Max didn't start this season we got 4 points. That's the equivalent of 36 points from 45 games which is bottom of the table / Ipswich form. Following the  nonsense logic of the OP, Paul Lambert was that close (1 player) to getting  in the top two.

 

You have a point but the 3 games when Emi was suspended were what convinced me. We are a beautiful team to watch and since November I've gone into every game thinking we would win. But although we looked good in parts in those 3 games I didn't at any point think we were going to win them. 

Emi is the heartbeat of the team and sets the pace at which we play. Without him we were a bit like a very good watch without a battery. The only other players I can recall over the last 50 years having the same impact on the team are Martin Peters and Hucks. And Martin O'Neill came in as a player and dragged us to promotion. 

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