Bond being repaid - they're looking for ideas!

[shefcanary 2,385]

A bonus for the club in promotion is the opportunity to repay the "successful" Bond that paid for the Colney redevelopment several years early.  

https://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/why-promotion-signalled-canaries-bond-payback-1-6030445

The article quotes Zoe Ward as saying they may repeat the exercise if the right project came along.  It strikes me that the bleedingly obvious one is to use it to part fund expansion of the ground - seeing as the last Bond never went "public" there is a lot of goodwill (and surplus pension funds 😉 ) to invest in a new project - this should surely enable thje overdue expansion of the ground without impacting on squad investment?

[lake district canary 4,531]

Tifosy are trying to increase the size of these bonds to allow much bigger projects to happen so it would be no surprise if we went into it again for a larger amount. 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

I thought exactly the same thing when I saw this Shefcanary. However, the club said a few years back that a new Main (Geoffrey Watling) Stand would cost about £20 million. The club are on the horns of a very sharp dilemma on this. The present ground is just about the perfect size if we are in the Championship, but is clearly too small if we are in the Premier League.  They said before that they wouldn't think about a new stand until we had been in the Premier League for three seasons and that sounds about right to me. (But it really annoys me that the poxy City Stand is what you see on all the TV pictures and it makes our ground look a bit rubbish on the tele). 

[Essjayess 307]

Ya..As it stands, developing Colney first has proved to be the absolute right thing to do. Ground increase has always been one of those "so close but so far away" projects that both the club and its fans have longed for and of course the main stand sticks out like a sore thumb as the place for a restrucuture. One of the commentators on Radio Norfolk at the last home game mentioned he thought a 35-40k stadium would be deserving of this club, but i personally think that would be to much, a 40k stadium...i cant see how the main stand  could increase capacity by up to 13k more without being perhaps a triple tier and looking ugly.

I would love to see a tier added on top of the existing stand, maybe to add another 3-5k, which would increase  the capacity to 30-32k which is actually in line with many new stadia outside the top 6 Prem sides and would be more realistic than 35-40k.

[birchfest 397]

Yeah just read the end section and it certainly seems to be what they might be hinting at. Part of being self sustaining is maximising match day revenue and when we are in a promotion season or top flight we could easily get an extra 2 to 3,000 in on the capacity. I often see the argument of what we could manage to fill and 32,000 as full capacity seems about right in those two scenarios, especially when you factor in the larger away support that top flight clubs (especially the london ones) tend to bring. 24,000 season ticket holders, 2,500 away fans and then 3,500 tickets on member/general sale would still see us in 90% capacity in my opinion at least.  

Getting back on track, I think the bond seems like a great way to limit the risk of debt to a borrower like a bank and as proven with the current one a potentially worthwhile investment. I actually think the success would see a huge demand for bonds and they could certainly get a large chunk for any expansion in the future. However, I highly doubt we will go down that route yet unless we start to get to a Bournemouth/Southampton etc number of years in the top flight. 

[Van wink 2,994]

I'd be happy to buy in again, presumably the 25% bonus would be linked to Champions League participation next time round

[Nuff Said 5,089]

Can I be the first person to mention Tom Cavendish on this thread?

[Woodman 92]

Lots of considerations if they do decide to extend the city stand. I think it would be great to see.

• Are the current foundations strong enough?
• Would it be one big tier or another tier on top?
• Would they have to close the stand? If so, where would those supporters go (not enough room elsewhere!)?
• Portakabin changing rooms like we had when the previous stand was built - the ones Terry Butcher kicked in when they lost (again)?
• Cost - obviously.  Would it be the Buendia Stand (No Reeves, no future...)

Far bigger priorities now - yellow nets being top of my priority list.

 

[shefcanary 2,385]

I don't see a Bond as fully financing the build, but part of a bigger package.   I still don't see why there is any requirement to concern the architects over building on top of the City stand - just take the roof off and build behind and over (as at Anfield and at Hillsborough where the road behind the original stand has also been retained a la Carrow Road).  Indeed, rumours abound in Sheffield that United will be building behind and over their own South Stand, within the next two seasons (the joint owner McCabe is a property developer and could easily finance and make money out of the space behind the seats).

As others have highlighted above, like with South Stand, the construction could be funded out of future revenues.  As noted above most Premier League teams would easily fill 3,000 plus seats, so aiming for 32- 35,000 should be aim.  The only real issue is the interim impact on existing season ticket holders - hence the behind and over construction.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

I enjoyed being a bond holder and helping achieve what we have. It's great to be part of our club and a welcome surprise to be paid out so wonderfully and so early.

But I wouldn't invest for a project such as a new stand. Except for the very top clubs that sort of debt can be a millstone dragging clubs further down when they slip down from the PL.

It all sounds good during a successful season but it would be prudent to remember less than a year ago fickle fans were leaving the stadium as it is now. You only have to look at threads on here from earlier this season to see how the days of consistently selling out were a thing of the past. No way will I invest money to enable fickle glory hunters claim a seat in the good times. If increasing capacity makes good business sense then let the business pay for it.

[Van wink 2,994]

A debenture type scheme linking the purchase of a bond to a season ticket in the new stand might be an attractive option for some.

[Ramrod 258]

The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is now. 

The current management are slowly removing the small-mindset which has hampered for so long. 

Use this promotion to grow the stadium or hope to yo-yo lucky.... Again!

 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Of course my post is only what I would or wouldn't do myself. Launching a bond to fund stadium expansion would be a test of whether people really want it. There's nothing speaks louder than the reply when asked to invest in an unsecured bond.

[Van wink 2,994]

Judging by the speed the last one sold out I doubt they will have too many  problems.

Will all depend on the terms of course but presumably a package will be offered that makes it attractive as an investment and as a buy in for fans.

[East Rider 548]

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

A debenture type scheme linking the purchase of a bond to a season ticket in the new stand might be an attractive option for some.

I was thinking something similar, a scheme to encourage new ST holders , perhaps over a two/three year span and to include a season ticket incentive to us with one already.

If there was ever a time to do this it is now. Our footballing style has been praised highly over the season and it is superb to say the least. It has caught the attention of the public and if the last scheme was anything to go by I suspect raising at least 3 x that amount again may be possible.

An extension to the GW stand for me, 5-6000 extra, max. New blood, younger supporters introduced. 

Besides, there is nothing between here and London to compete or compare!

[Woodman 92]

1 hour ago, Ramrod said:

The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is now.

Profound...

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

I don't see a Bond as fully financing the build, but part of a bigger package.   I still don't see why there is any requirement to concern the architects over building on top of the City stand - just take the roof off and build behind and over (as at Anfield and at Hillsborough where the road behind the original stand has also been retained a la Carrow Road).  Indeed, rumours abound in Sheffield that United will be building behind and over their own South Stand, within the next two seasons (the joint owner McCabe is a property developer and could easily finance and make money out of the space behind the seats).

As others have highlighted above, like with South Stand, the construction could be funded out of future revenues.  As noted above most Premier League teams would easily fill 3,000 plus seats, so aiming for 32- 35,000 should be aim.  The only real issue is the interim impact on existing season ticket holders - hence the behind and over construction.

This^^^  The space is there to do it with the road already being there and which could be retained underneath a superstructure.  No brainer really....if the money can be found - and a bond scheme could well be the way to do it.

[Surfer 1,547]

3 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

But it really annoys me that the poxy City Stand is what you see on all the TV pictures and it makes our ground look a bit rubbish on the tele.

The least expensive answer to that is to move the camera positions over to the City Stand. 

Other projects we could throw our money at to feel better - remove the current floodlight pylons (and replace the fuse boxes while we are at it) - build a multistory carpark behind the South Stand - release an NCFC themed video game - replace LeoVegas as club sponsor with NCFC Supporters Bonds - wrap local transport company coaches in NCFC branded skins and offer discounted travel to all away games. 

[Van wink 2,994]

Surfer

"The least expensive answer to that is to move the camera positions over to the City Stand"

 

Strap a chair to the roof of the City Stand and stick Martin Tyler on there, he'd love it. 

[Woodman 92]

20 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

This^^^  The space is there to do it with the road already being there and which could be retained underneath a superstructure.  No brainer really....if the money can be found - and a bond scheme could well be the way to do it.

That road doesn't really serve any public highway purpose now.  It could be permanently closed and made pedestrian/cycle only (like so much of Norwich but let's not start on that one!).

 

20 minutes ago, Surfer said:

remove the current floodlight pylons

I suspect there may be engineering problems to overcome there, holding the roofs in place.  I do agree it would improve the view from those areas though.

[Surfer 1,547]

11 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Surfer

"The least expensive answer to that is to move the camera positions over to the City Stand"

 

Strap a chair to the roof of the City Stand and stick Martin Tyler on there, he'd love it. 

Yes! My original mental image was scaffolding on top of the stand - like the good old days of FA Cup coverage, 😎 but in practice no people need to move , the commentators can stay where they are, and they also invented remote controlled broadcast camera and fiber optic cables over 20 years ago... those camera can now be 8 x HDTV resolution, and you can pan scan inside that image to extract an HD video. They just need to put the camera operators and commentators into the virtual location of the camera they are controlling / viewing - so if there is a will there is a way.

[lake district canary 4,531]

3 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

it really annoys me that the poxy City Stand is what you see on all the TV pictures and it makes our ground look a bit rubbish on the tele). 

Rubbishy? Really?  Not that I would be against extending the stand, but I don't think there is anything wrong with it as it is and to me it looks great, in real life or on TV.

 

[Surfer 1,547]

Well with the current arrangement we do get a nice visual of the clock and Cathedral, it’s true.

[FenwayFrank 2,456]

The increase in capacity would only work for certain games in my opinion. If we stay up next season, then the following season when we’re at home to Burnley on a cold February night would struggle to sell out the current 27k. We would be funding a huge amount of money to sell extra tickets for six games a season.

[Bill 1,788]

7 hours ago, shefcanary said:

A bonus for the club in promotion is the opportunity to repay the "successful" Bond that paid for the Colney redevelopment several years early.  

https://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/why-promotion-signalled-canaries-bond-payback-1-6030445

The article quotes Zoe Ward as saying they may repeat the exercise if the right project came along.  It strikes me that the bleedingly obvious one is to use it to part fund expansion of the ground - seeing as the last Bond never went "public" there is a lot of goodwill (and surplus pension funds 😉 ) to invest in a new project - this should surely enable thje overdue expansion of the ground without impacting on squad investment?

Aside from the cost you would need to rehouse 4000 ST holders

so where and for how long ?

[Drazen Muzinic 1,444]

3 hours ago, Woodman said:

That road doesn't really serve any public highway purpose now.  It could be permanently closed and made pedestrian/cycle only (like so much of Norwich but let's not start on that one!)

Old Trafford has a set up like this - works well.

[Bill 1,788]

3 hours ago, Surfer said:

The least expensive answer to that is to move the camera positions over to the City Stand. 

Other projects we could throw our money at to feel better - remove the current floodlight pylons (and replace the fuse boxes while we are at it) - build a multistory carpark behind the South Stand - release an NCFC themed video game - replace LeoVegas as club sponsor with NCFC Supporters Bonds - wrap local transport company coaches in NCFC branded skins and offer discounted travel to all away games. 

fund the purchase of a sausage roll warming machine

build more ladies loos, always long queues

buy an industrial size aerator to use at half time so to save the cost of those blokes poking the pitch with forks

tie up a deal with Morrisons so fans don't have to go there to get food for the game

bring back the man selling 'sweets' on the touchline

[Yellow Fever 3,747]

I seem to recall that the 'new' city stand (for me .. I often played as a child when watching the reserves in the 60s clambering up and down the old wooden benches) when rebuilt after the fire had foundations suitable for an eventual 2nd tier.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

30 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I seem to recall that the 'new' city stand (for me .. I often played as a child when watching the reserves in the 60s clambering up and down the old wooden benches) when rebuilt after the fire had foundations suitable for an eventual 2nd tier.

It does Yellow Fever (at least Robert Chase personally told me it does - and he never lied about anything). 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

bring back the man selling 'sweets' on the touchline

Now you're talking, the sweetest Toffos i ever bought.