What happened to the Worthy out demo?

[Ken Aries 0]

One or two posters mentioned an anti-Worthy protest after the Southampton game. Did it happen? I can''t imagine more than 10 or 12 people took part if it did  - they would have looked pretty silly after a great result like that

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

It was bloody freezing - anyways he has earned himself a few more weeks - as usual it takes worthy months longer than anyone else to realise a problem and sort it out ie Mcveigh playing

[K Lo 246]

"One or two posters mentioned an anti-Worthy protest after the Southampton game. Did it happen? I can''t imagine more than 10 or 12 people took part if it did  - they would have looked pretty silly after a great result like that "

Was that an attempt to suggest that the Worthy-Outers now look stupid because of 1 result? Of course, that one excellent result and the corresponding 3 points more than off-sets the defeats we''ve had against Southampton (away), Leeds, Stoke, Watford, Reading, Luton, QPR, Sheff Wed, Wolves, Millwall and Derby and the corresponding sum of 0 points, doesn''t it?

Regardless of what anyone else thinks they know about me, I want what''s best for the club.I think that Worthy has, in the past 18 months, shown far too much naivity, bad planning and poor recruitments (Ashton aside) to warrant a long term future at the club. With hind-sight we could have stayed up last season but for decisions such as his insistance on playing Holt until he dropped himself.

[Slim 0]

K Lo - I take it from your post, you were protesting after the game?

If not, this makes you look extremely stupid.

[Ken Aries 0]

You can interpret or misinterpret my words how ever you like K Lo. I was merely suggesting that maybe there isn''t this huge groundswell of opinion against Worthy that some people like to think exists. If there was, then you would have found at least 500 to a thousand would have stayed behind on Saturday, despite the weather and regardless of the result. So how many protested, 0? Or were there a few? You tell me. Did you demonstrate? If not, why not? If things were bad enough then people would protest with a passion, and I would most probably join them. But until then I''m just happy to see my team play well once in a blue moon.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

When the first Saints goal went in there were very large rumblings - a lot of people around me were voicing discontent.  I think a  lot of people have their doubts but are willing to give hiom a chance.

My huge worry is ashton being sold and worthy wasting whatever money becomes available on andy hughes style players......

[Ealing Canary 0]

As you can see from my avatar I''m one of the Worthy Outers and obviously I didn''t go and protest after the game because that would have been stupid for the following reasons:

1. we''d just won convincingly
2. it was freezing
3. see points 1 and 2

But I disagree with your comments Stephen when you say "I was merely suggesting that maybe there isn''t this huge groundswell of opinion against Worthy that some people like to think exists". 

There are an awful lot of people who think that Worthy''s time is up, if it is me that is wrong why hasn''t the "Worthington''s Army" chant been heard for weeks? Why was the atmosphere at the start of the match on Saturday awful? You could practically hear a pin drop! Everyone seemed resigned to defeat and the 1st goal didn''t help matters.

This kind of result just goes to show what a bad job Worthy has done so far this season. The second half showed what this team is capable of doing and it''s taken 24 matches to get it right!

Now don''t get me wrong, I''m not someone that wants us to start losing so that Worthy goes, but I''m still in the WO camp for the time being.

However, a good Xmas run and 7 or more points from the 4 games (ideally 10 or 12 points, but that''s probably a bit unrealistic) AND more importantly similar commitment to what we saw on Saturday and I might move back into the Worthy Doubters camp for the time being.

OTBC!

 

[ZLF 335]

Who would not fail to feel good after that second half performance?   I did not want to spoil the moment so pointless protesting even though he still has a lot to prove to me.

 

OTBC

[Old Boy 0]

[quote user="Islington Canary"]

As you can see from my avatar I''m one of the Worthy Outers and obviously I didn''t go and protest after the game because that would have been stupid for the following reasons:

1. we''d just won convincingly
2. it was freezing
3. see points 1 and 2

[/quote]

It seems that the WO movement shrivels in the cold. Maybe it''s all just balls.

Anyway, I''m sure that warm weather and a defeat will coincide at some point this season, so you''ll all have your chance then, won''t you?

[Fat Barman 0]

I respect the right of the WO''s to hold their opinions, although I''ve been disputing their claims to hold the majority view.

If we''re to continue to swallow this argument, then some time soon a visible protest must take place.

C''mon guys, maybe the AGM was strictly controlled (although you don''t

have to be a shareholder to protest outside the event), but numerous

fans forums have come and gone with nary a voice raised in anger. Derby

was the only audible calls for Worthy out, so far. It just seems like

there''s an excuse every time you could protest, that it''s not feasible

to do so ''this time''.

I''m not trying to get you to change your views, a lot of thought and

soul-searching has led you to your conclusions, but if you can''t come

up with a bums-on-pavement protest soon you are going to start looking just a bit silly.

[Ealing Canary 0]

The tide turns again, now it''s the WO''s turn to get shouted down!

So when are we going to see some support for Worthy from the KTFers then?

Like I said above, I haven''t heard any chanting supporting him of late..... [;)]

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

When the first Saints goal went in there were very large rumblings - a lot of people around me were voicing discontent.  I think all its gonna take is another humiliationg home defeat to a rubbish side.

Lets hope it doesnt happen...

[ZLF 335]

It is noticeable that no songs have worthy/worthington in them all replaced by delia(s green and yellow army for example)

The support for worthy is not there but neither will there ever be a vocal push for a manager who has just got two consecutive wins under their belts for the first time this season.  WO group like the KTFers have the clubs best interest at heart.

As you say - a truce has broken out as people wait to see what happens. 

OTBC

[Meeky 0]

[quote user="stephen nobbs"]One or two posters mentioned an anti-Worthy protest after the Southampton game. Did it happen? I can''t imagine more than 10 or 12 people took part if it did  - they would have looked pretty silly after a great result like that[/quote]

 

No protests after the game, but there was plenty of the WO faction in the pubs before and after handing out stickers and flyers, and this will carry on in the forseeable future. Two swallows doesn''t make a summer (might make a marriage though!).

We now have a quite difficult run of games coming up in a short space of time, it will be interesting come 5pm on January 2nd and seeing where we are then.

[LinkNR9 0]

"...numerous fans forums have come and gone with nary a voice raised in anger."

I think that this is because, like me, Worthy Outers know that this will make not one scrap of difference to our intransigent Board of Directors. Worthy will be in power until we''re relegated, I''m afraid.

[Syteanric 1]

through rain, sleet, snow or blow.. i would of been there... if you believe in something enough then you do whatever it takes

jas :)

[kennyfoggo 0]

I don''t think that many have gone quiet I still see people posting on varying forums that they still want him out. I for one still do... even if he does guide to the play offs and promotion. I haven''t got any confidence that he can take us on to the next level required.

I am a supporter first and foremost and was delighted to see My team win.. but two wins don''t make a season..we have been here before

[macdougalls perm 0]

Always good to see a positive outlook. [:)]

[0Amarillo<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>ddMMyyyy0Falseen-US<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>True 0]

There are probably 3 types of supporters.

1. The Worthy Outers - who will probably still be calling for his head even if we are promoted. They are permanently and irreversibly set against him for idealogical reasons, and in some cases always have been. In short, they don''t like his management style. They think the board are ''stubborn and intransigent'' for not sacking him, rather than just disagreeing with their point of view.

2. The Keep the Faithers - who will still keep him even if we are relegated. They would argue that given his record over 5 years, and the circumstances the club finds itself in, he is still the best bet in the long run. They do like his management style. They think the board are strong and courageous to stick to their principles and ride out the storm.

3. The Waverers - who may fluctuate with each poor and then brilliant performance. They''ll support him if results carry on improving, but would probably vote against him if they take a turn for the worse again.

None of these groups are as big or as representative as they like to think they are. They all believe they have Norwich''s best interests at heart, but disagree on how to realise success.

Today''s Guardian article about Sunderland makes interesting reading - how a majority of fans there are in favour of McCarthy staying in a recent poll. Interesting that the Pink ''Un are trying again to stoke up the debate by polling on who should replace Worthy.

[ZLF 335]

I agree with your analysis amarillo and suspect that by nature most are in the wavering camp and are swayed by current form more than most... and as usual the most vocal elements are those on the extremes who are still currently a minority no matter what they think.

Like Kennyfoggo I have publically stated that I no longer feel worthy is the man to achieve what I think should be the objective of this club for the next 5 years - sustained premiership football.   He may be able to take us back there but I do not see enough learning from mistakes to convince me that he can keep us there.  More worryingly is the evidence of repeated mistakes and a down turn in performance.

As far as the current poll is concerned it will support a keep worthy vote as the ''worthy put'' vote will be split amongst the numerous candidates and the KTFers will vote for keep worthy.  The timing means most waverers will also vote for the latter.

In doing this poll the pu are only delivering what they agreed - a poll on suggested replacements from this very board, sadly it has been done in such a way that the result is even more irrelevant than the previous two as it answers a question that is not being asked...  If you are going to do the poll exclude worthy as we already know the fans are split on worthy in or out, this is a different and purely hypothetical vote on who the best replacement for worthy should be - you would ever replace a manager with one you have just dismissed?????  That is the current question.

OTBC 

 

 

[Old Boy 0]

There''s a fourth group, Amarillo, numbering at least one (me), who unwaveringly believe that dumping a manager who has been a part of a transformation at the Club, and bringing in someone else who may or may not be better (it will always be a gamble), is not a sensible way forward. This group (me) sees, and has seen for years, that there are flaws within the man-management, coaching and scouting set-ups, some of which are mainly attributable to the manager (just as others are attributable to individual players), but can see the wood despite the trees. It believes that the better way is for the supporters to keep up the pressure on those responsible to improve all aspects of the Club, but in a constructive and supportive way.  But it totally rejects the targeting of one individual, to the point where every single decision he makes is spun to give an adverse interpetation, where rumours are elaborated and exploited to keep the hysteria fuelled, and where "supporters" want the team to lose and players to fail in order to prove them right. The lowest point was when NW was accused of letting the team drift and hanging on to collect a pay-off. Contemptible.

The trees are some poor performances, some bad signings and some holes in the squad, but the wood is a Club that is viable, that won''t be relegated, and that is controlled by people with the long-term interests of the Club at heart. The only Faith worth Keeping is in the Club, not any individual currently within it or outside it.

[Ken Aries 0]

Very well written, Old Boy, I couldn''t have put it better myself. OTBC

[LinkNR9 0]

"...rumours are elaborated and exploited to keep the hysteria fuelled." That is an hysterical statement in itself, Old Boy.

I would be delirious, again, if we got promoted. Sadly, I can''t see it happening with Worthy. The reasons for my opinion are:

1. His transfer dealings over the past 18 months have been awful (with the exception of a handful of players such as Ashton - but even I could have spotted that one!), resulting in very little towards the team''s progress.

2. He will not give youth or flair an opportunity. His players must, on the whole, be "experienced" journeymen or cross country runners.

3. He is tactically poor. He doesn''t have a Plan B when things go wrong and his substitutions are beyond belief at times.

Worthington is a good man who has worked wonders for this Club. However, I can''t see him taking it forward to where the team / our supporters / our facilities deserve to be.   

 

[Trent Canary 0]

Here Here Old boy, couldnt have put it any better.

[ZLF 335]

[quote user="Old Boy"]

There''s a fourth group, Amarillo, numbering at least one (me), who unwaveringly believe that dumping a manager who has been a part of a transformation at the Club, and bringing in someone else who may or may not be better (it will always be a gamble), is not a sensible way forward. This group (me) sees, and has seen for years, that there are flaws within the man-management, coaching and scouting set-ups, some of which are mainly attributable to the manager (just as others are attributable to individual players), but can see the wood despite the trees. It believes that the better way is for the supporters to keep up the pressure on those responsible to improve all aspects of the Club, but in a constructive and supportive way.  But it totally rejects the targeting of one individual, to the point where every single decision he makes is spun to give an adverse interpetation, where rumours are elaborated and exploited to keep the hysteria fuelled, and where "supporters" want the team to lose and players to fail in order to prove them right. The lowest point was when NW was accused of letting the team drift and hanging on to collect a pay-off. Contemptible.

The trees are some poor performances, some bad signings and some holes in the squad, but the wood is a Club that is viable, that won''t be relegated, and that is controlled by people with the long-term interests of the Club at heart. The only Faith worth Keeping is in the Club, not any individual currently within it or outside it.

[/quote]

Excellent post Old Boy and a view I held until October. 

At some stage though there must come a point when results and performances mean a change in manager is unavoidable  - for me that point has been reached - your tolerance level is commendably higher than my own.  

 

OTBC

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Old Boy"]

There''s a fourth group, Amarillo, numbering at least one (me), who unwaveringly believe that dumping a manager who has been a part of a transformation at the Club, and bringing in someone else who may or may not be better (it will always be a gamble), is not a sensible way forward. This group (me) sees, and has seen for years, that there are flaws within the man-management, coaching and scouting set-ups, some of which are mainly attributable to the manager (just as others are attributable to individual players), but can see the wood despite the trees. It believes that the better way is for the supporters to keep up the pressure on those responsible to improve all aspects of the Club, but in a constructive and supportive way.  But it totally rejects the targeting of one individual, to the point where every single decision he makes is spun to give an adverse interpetation, where rumours are elaborated and exploited to keep the hysteria fuelled, and where "supporters" want the team to lose and players to fail in order to prove them right. The lowest point was when NW was accused of letting the team drift and hanging on to collect a pay-off. Contemptible.

The trees are some poor performances, some bad signings and some holes in the squad, but the wood is a Club that is viable, that won''t be relegated, and that is controlled by people with the long-term interests of the Club at heart. The only Faith worth Keeping is in the Club, not any individual currently within it or outside it.

[/quote]

I was of this group until about a month ago - the performances at Wolves, Millwall, Derby, Luton, QPR and many many times at home this season have seen me change my tune.  The signings over the past 18 months - bar Ashton have been on the whole awful.  Decisions like selling Malky and then trying to replace him with Charlton and Primus left me flaberghasted at the time and in hindsight look even worse.  The complete lack of flair added to the squad and just plain weird substitutions this season have just reeked of a manager who does not seem to no what he is doing.  The complete lack of a right midfielder for many a year reeks of inespt management and when we did get sort of one in (Marney) he was just another worthy clogger (and seemed happier in the center).

Also what really buigs me is it takes him longer than anybody else to realise a problem....  And he has favorites (the cloggers) and this season this has SERIOUSLY contributed to the lack of success of the team.. Doubtless he would drop huckerby if he could

Hopefully we will win a few matches and progress up the table - 6 points off the play offs shows how poor this division is and we cant afford to wait otherwise we will do an ipswich and have no talent left.

[Syteanric 1]

i agree with all thats been said, but we have to look at the long term future for Norwich city...

 Nigel Worthington has taken us as far as he can... promotion was the pinnacle and he should of walked away then.. although we can understand why he didnt....

 However, it is becoming more and more painful to accept that every game that passes Worthys stubborness is costing him respect and ultimately a good reception on any future return to Carrow Road.

 as has been said his reluctance to use youth, to sit back instead of keep the team shape, to not motivate, to use the same formation week in week out regardless has proven that he is not a long term manager.

 He does have the potential and the capability to spot talent and bring it into the club.. but this isnt alwyas the way.. the players he has signed before now exclusively nearly all play in Leagues 1 and 2.. and some with good effect.

 I personally feel Worthy is a lower league manager.. who could manage for years in leagues 1 or 2 and win countless promotions or cups at that level... when it comes to bigger fish however he is out of his depth.

Its a shame as Worthington is a nice guy who genuinly wants to be a success, but as i said its painful to see him failing and he must be sick at times.... the nice guy always comes last and in business the nice guy, quite alot of the time, gets swallowed up... I think this is happening to Worthy...

 id love to see him drop down a league now he has had experiance with us and he could be superb!. if he does leave then i hope he gets another job quickly... he deserves it for his past efforts, but his time at Norwich is certainly up

jas :)