Radio 5 podcast

[Branston Pickle 3,654]

I sit next to an ex-pro keeper and he reckons Krul has been given a harder time than he’s deserved.  Friday was a case in point, unsighted, the ball came through (deflected by?) the defender and only just inside the post - it’s tough to blame him when there was no closing down at all.

Re: our defence, it, or rather, the way we currently play, isn’t going to work out at PL level - we’ve let in 50+ goals this season which would surely be 60-70 in the PL.  We’d get caught tonnes of times if we give sides the same opportunities next season.  The thing is, I’m undecided whether it needs different personnel or just a tweaking of what we do with our current guys. It’s a difficult one, but we can’t be as ‘gung ho’ at the higher level...going out to outscore sides is a lot harder.

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

8 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Or we'll score lots of goals........

And let in even more. We won’t win enough games without addressing our defensive issues

[Petriix 2,834]

I find this whole debate completely illogical.

1. We had a shaky start to the season and a bit of a nervy end. In the 34 games we played between 03/09/2018 and 08/04/2019 we only conceded 36 goals; only 3 teams conceded fewer (and only 1 of those has a positive goal difference) while we scored 73 goals at the other end. Our defence has been exceptionally good, especially when you consider how open and attacking our system is.
   
2. Even if we finish 11th in the Premier League, we would not be expected to have a positive goal difference. If we can score 45 then we should stay up, even if we concede 60.
3. We will obviously play a more defensive system against the better teams, but that doesn't mean that we need to change our entire system for every game; we should treat the majority of our games next season like our games against top 6 Championship teams this season, playing with free flowing, creative, attacking purpose.
4. We have some of the most valuable defenders ever seen in the Championship. They are valuable because they are young, already very good, but also rapidly improving. We absolutely do not have the budget to spend the £10m+ it would need to buy anyone who could improve on what we have. Any defender we do sign would be replacement cover if Klose or Hanley leave.

[Making Plans 936]

2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Well, I'm going to disagree with most of the above posts, because I think our defence will be strong enough, with Krul too.

Compared to most teams who get promoted to the PL our defensive record is poor.

That is obviously the weakest link of our team.

Not saying that the Goalie + Back 4 haven't done well but next season will be a completely different ball game and the defence will need to be stronger.

Scoring goals next season will be more difficult too so we need to concede less.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

3 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

This is the dilemma for me. We've been too leaky and could do with strengthening, but the strange thing is, nobody deserves to be dropped. It's a tricky one.

This is, in part, because I feel a lot of the goals we have leaked are as much down to some of the defensive tactics/shape than the players involved. Improving our marking/ditching the zonal marking and having a couple of players closer to the edge of the penalty area (rather than all in our won six yard box) to stop players being allowed unchallenged shots at goal from the edge of the box after headed clearances would I think make a big difference and are things that can be addressed on the training ground rather than needing us to spend lots of money on new players.

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 minute ago, Making Plans said:

Compared to most teams who get promoted to the PL our defensive record is poor.

That is obviously the weakest link of our team.

Not saying that the Goalie + Back 4 haven't done well but next season will be a completely different ball game and the defence will need to be stronger.

Scoring goals next season will be more difficult too so we need to concede less.

We will succeed by playing the same way as this season, it is the Farke way - and yes we let in goals, but the way we play we will give teams all sorts of problems and we WILL score plenty too.  It will make for another exciting season - it may or may not be good enough, but there is NO point imo in going up and changing the way we play by being more defensive or less attacking.  

 

[Jim Smith 2,317]

14 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

We will succeed by playing the same way as this season, it is the Farke way - and yes we let in goals, but the way we play we will give teams all sorts of problems and we WILL score plenty too.  It will make for another exciting season - it may or may not be good enough, but there is NO point imo in going up and changing the way we play by being more defensive or less attacking.  

 

But there are things you can do to tighten up the defence without necessarily sacrificing the attacking intent and if we are going to play with the full backs bombing forward (even though I think we will reign them in a bit) then its even more important that we cut out the soft goals from unmarked headers or failing to close down shots at the top of the box. You don't need to sacrifice attacking intent to do that as most of the time its down to our defensive tactics especially facing set pieces. There was a stat posted on another forum the other day which indicated that we have the worst record in the division for set pieces resulting in an attempt on our goal with 44% of opposition set pieces resulting in an attempt. I would wager that quite a few of those attempts have been from the second phase when the ball has been headed out as we routinely have nobody beyond the penalty spot. Having a couple of players nearer the top of the box when defending corners and free kicks would not effect our general attacking style. 

If we don't do something to address it then I fear premier league players will routinely take advantage, particularly if we keep faith with Krul who is not the most agile. On that front I would not be surprised if we start the season with him as he seems to be important in the dressing room and a great guy but also bring in another more agile, up and coming keeper who can be ready to step in if Krul struggles. 

[Ramrod 258]

We let in some awful goals this season but the good thing is the issues are identifiable. 

I wish there was a breakdown but from memory:

Too many set pieces, especially corners, which point to our marking system. 

Poor goalkeeping early season. 

Losing the ball upfield (we weren't often the victims of sustained pressure) and this is the bread and butter of PL sides. 

Switching off just before half time. 

Letting in the first goal, again crucial in the EPL. 

It did make for exciting games though! 

 

[Ramrod 258]

I would add that our recent away match at Stoke was PLesque in that we appeared to dominate but created few clear cut chances whereas Stoke played a less attractive brand but had more shots on target. 

Basically, in the PL we risk getting picked off. 

We do not need to create half the chances we do but we need a better conversion rate. In other words we have plenty of scope to tighten up and trust in the likes of Buendia to create chances in tighter games. 

 

[king canary 7,603]

13 minutes ago, Ramrod said:

We let in some awful goals this season but the good thing is the issues are identifiable. 

I wish there was a breakdown but from memory:

Too many set pieces, especially corners, which point to our marking system. 

Poor goalkeeping early season. 

Losing the ball upfield (we weren't often the victims of sustained pressure) and this is the bread and butter of PL sides. 

Switching off just before half time. 

Letting in the first goal, again crucial in the EPL. 

It did make for exciting games though! 

 

I'd add 'switching off just after we scored' and 'vulnerability to long balls into the channels' to this list.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

3 minutes ago, Ramrod said:

I would add that our recent away match at Stoke was PLesque in that we appeared to dominate but created few clear cut chances whereas Stoke played a less attractive brand but had more shots on target. 

Basically, in the PL we risk getting picked off. 

We do not need to create half the chances we do but we need a better conversion rate. In other words we have plenty of scope to tighten up and trust in the likes of Buendia to create chances in tighter games. 

 

I believe Norwich have the highest or 2nd highest shot conversion rate. There is no issue that end.

The problem is Norwich are 10th in ‘shots against league’ (1st place having allowed the least shots against). Norwich also tend to allow the opposition to take fairly good quality shots against them i.e. in the box, from central positions. 

Set pieces will always be an issue as the team are generally quite short and not physical players. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

5 minutes ago, Ramrod said:

I would add that our recent away match at Stoke was PLesque in that we appeared to dominate but created few clear cut chances whereas Stoke played a less attractive brand but had more shots on target. 

Basically, in the PL we risk getting picked off. 

We do not need to create half the chances we do but we need a better conversion rate. In other words we have plenty of scope to tighten up and trust in the likes of Buendia to create chances in tighter games. 

 

I disagree. Our whole game is made up of making chances and to tighten up and create less chances with the hope of scoring more from less chances is a recipe for immediate relegation.  We need to do what we are doing now, but do it better - and that will happen as the players adjust to the higher level.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

Yeah I'd be interested if anyone knows how many of our goals were conceded just after scoring, just before halftime or just after halftime ?  It feels unusually high to me and if so, is about a collective loss of concentration which the team can work on.

 

Ditto with set pieces, there is an issue with height of players but a lot of the goals have been a failure to mark rather than players being out jumped.

 

Work on those and we could improve significantly.

 

Plus of course our defence is unusually young and therefore will improve just by virtue of getting more experience.

[hogesar 9,657]

I wouldnt see replacing Krul as a priority.

Certainly, after years of not playing consistently he has improved throughout the season. After a full season of playing and a full pre season with a team hes familiar with there is every chance he could reach levels near-ish his best.

However, a younger GK who is capable of offering genuine competition would be welcome.

[Making Plans 936]

2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

We will succeed by playing the same way as this season, it is the Farke way - and yes we let in goals, but the way we play we will give teams all sorts of problems and we WILL score plenty too.  It will make for another exciting season - it may or may not be good enough, but there is NO point imo in going up and changing the way we play by being more defensive or less attacking.  

 

Where did I say anything about changing the way we play.

Surely we can try to eliminate some of our weaknesses without fundamentally changing the way we play.

Fact is, there is huge scope to tighten up at the back and I'm sure the shrewd Mr Farke will have identified this as an area of our game that needs improving.

[Aggy 754]

I don’t think it’s a case of the individual defenders not being “good enough”. It’s simply that, if we are going to try and improve the side (as most teams would think about doing when they get promoted) the obvious area to improve is the defence, as we have conceded a lot of goals. 

The difference in the prem though is that sides are more clinical and have more individuals who can punish you when you make sloppy mistakes. The defence has made sloppy mistakes this season - yes some of that is to do with their inexperience but that doesn’t help you when you’re conceding shed loads in the prem. 

I do think we might see Klose play more next season. I think he would add significant defensive nous to the back line and might mean we can get away without any additions at centre half. He is probably a bit slow, but him and Zimmerman playing deep when we need to shut up shop might work (possibly as a three with Godfrey as well).

The way we set up is likely to mean we concede anyway though. A quality holding midfielder would be near the top of my list for next season. Krul I’m happy enough with - he isn’t going to be the best in the prem but he’ll probably do as much of a job as anyone else we can/should spend money on.

If Farke decides (as I expect he will) to play largely the same way next season, I actually think a second attacker and/or creative midfielder will be the most important buy. We’ll concede anyway, so may as well try and make sure we can outscore sides. If Pukki is having a bad day, we don’t look the same side. There will be times he needs some help next season. Likewise we do do sometimes struggle to break sides down when Buendia is out. Stiepermann for me is the obvious candidate for potential upgrading - yes he adds some physicality (and that alone will see him get games next year I’d imagine) but he also gives the ball away a lot and can be extremely inconsistent. A real creative, tricky player who can play behind Pukki (and if possible fill in as a striker if Pukki is out) would be the one area I think would really improve us. They’re expensive though. 

[Bradwell canary 109]

Fact is, our goalkeeper will be the hardest working member of the team in thePL next season.

such a great shame we could not have got Angus for this past season on loan, then bought him now.

If we had him this season I would have been far more confident along the way of us going up.

Tim, seems so slow in releasing the ball, it make many of the crowd nervous.  He will get caught out if he does this in the PL.