For all you ' Worthy Outer's ', I've tried to explain

[Slim 0]

 

Worthy to stay:

Worthington has done so much for this club in the relatively short time that he’s been here. The first sign that things aren’t going right and everyone takes the easy option of – “Worthy Out”.

Last season in the Premiership, was in the end disappointing, but we were still in it come the last day of the season – How many people truly gave us a chance of being in the position at that time?

Don’t think I’m just going to mention the past, let’s think about now:

This season Nigel has bought in some talented players and along with those ones we already had, we DO have a very strong team. Let me just mention some of these players –

Robert Green – Everyone thinks he deserves a place in the England Squad

Gary Doherty – Best player of the season so far? Most would say so.

Calum Davenport – Nobody that I know of would like to see him leave.

Andy Hughes – Taken over role of captain and leads the team.

Youssef Safri – Don’t have to say anything about this man.

Paul McVeigh – Played well all season – More than worth his chance.

Dickson Etuhu – Very promising from what I’ve seen so far.

Darren Huckerby – On his day can change a game.

Dean Ashton – Worthy’s best signing?

Leon McKenzie – As with Hucks, on his day can change a game.

Now there is 10, more than capable players there. And please correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe all but two have been signed by Nigel. This is without mentioning Drury, Colin, Louis-Jean, Shackell, Marney (who I believe will still be a very good player, just not for us), Brennan and Thorne, who can all play decent football at this level.

We’ve also had three players come through the Youth System in recent years.

Now, I’ve heard many people on this board say that it is Worthy’s job to get these players, playing – and it is. But he can train them, coach them and shout at them, but all of the above players are humans and will do what they want to do. It’s that players that need to start standing up for themselves and making themselves count. We all now that they can do a decent job against any team in this league.

Ashton has said in the papers recently that Worthy does give them very strict and precise instructions but the players do what they want to do. A lot of you are saying the reason for this is because they have lost “Faith” and “Trust” in Worthy, but is this the real reason? I personally don’t think that it is.

Nearly everybody, including most of, if not all of the players expected us to walk this league and be winning every game 2 or 3 – nil. After a few games of this not happening (we all remember the first three games), players start to panic, play sloppy football. Unfortunately there’s not a lot any one can do about this. It’s a case of mind over matter for the player.

Next point is the new manager. Who is going to want to come to a club in “Crisis”?

Certainly no manager with any kind of good record.

Just drop everything and come to Norwich for a relegation battle? Don’t think so.

What exactly is a new manager going to do in half a season? I’ve read a lot about these managers with magical powers, amazing, I think!

Let’s also stop all this talk of boycotting games…anybody who thinks this will actually do anything is a complete and utter t**t!

This is the time when the teams needs support, loyalty and commitment, not a bunch of Muppets who only sing when we win.

Now everybody is entitled to there own opinion, which is exactly why I posted this. I know the majority of you are warming up you fingers, ready to reply with some comment about Mrs. Worthington – Well you keep asking for someone to explain why we should give Nigel a chance and I’ve tried to put my view across.

Give the man ‘til the end of the season.

[nolegs 0]

Thankyou for your condesending post,thankyou for calling me a muppet,and for singing when yer winning...you must have a good memory ''cos there ain''t been much of that recently.

[Slim 0]

To be honest with you ''No Legs'', I didn''t expect anything more than a reply like that.

But surely you could have at least tried to oppose my views.

And as for the muppet remark, you fall in to the sing when yer winning crew do you?

[rieg77 0]

Slim

A good post I think!!

I''m not sure the players expected to walk the league and I''m certain the management didn''t but I know that a lot of fans did.

When it didn''t happen their hyper-optimism at the beginning of the season was replaced with hyper-disappointment and a lot, I feel, have lost perspective.

Yes, it seems the club has missed out on a massive opportunity to try and get established in the prem - its very disappointing. But some supporters would dress it up by saying we need to get back where we belong.

When has this club ''belonged'' in top flight football. I think a sustained period of 9 seasons is the best we can boast and that was a long time ago. Looking over the last 10 years we are exactly where we belong.

I don''t like it. Its not where I want the club to be but theres no point running round screaming because we haven''t repeated the miracle of 2 years ago. Get some perspective!!

Perhaps there is justification for replacing the management - I would argue some players need to look deep within as well.

I don''t see theres any point doing anything until the summer. I don''t believe we will go down - there are too many other crapper teams below us for that imo. I don''t believe theres time for a new manager to have an impact. He would have 1 month to figure out who he needs and who he needs rid of, somehow get the team talking to one another and all of this with little or no money to spend.

[charlies dad 0]

''At the first sign'' hahahaha thats a laugh... 18 months of total failure. 13 wins in 60 bloody games. ''First sign''? Give me strength.

[We need a Manager 0]

Well if we go by your thoughts that Worthington should stay because of all he has achieved Slim surely Mike Walker or any of the numerous managers we have had all head and shoulders better than Worthington should still be in charge of the club . Face it Worthington is a very very average mnager (and thats being kind to him ) who got lucky one season with his loans , and will never turn this shambles around how ever long he is given . As for his signings , laughable, Andy Hughes i see you say leads our club , just a crying shame hes a pathetic footballer really , but he runs about well so Worthington rates him , Jarrett where is he now ? Robinson , Sunderland reserve player, Thorne , well over the hill , Etuhu , cannot get a game at Preston , Louis Jean and Colin , that good he has to get Wright in on loan .It just goes on and on and will do untill this clown is removed from his job .

[nolegs 0]

Slim, I''m not going to get involved in a slanging match but...

Mc.Veigh,"played well all season"?,think thats pushing the truth a bit,but thats always down to personal opinion.

New manager to a club in crisis...how many clubs do you know who change their managers when everything is ok?

And don''t you sing when we''re winning?...I do(but I also sing when we''re losing)thus a muppet!

This Worthy-in-out-shake it all about campaign has become far too personalised ,I don''t know the bloke ,but I''m sure he''s a lovely fella ,but I  think he''s taken us as far as he can go,time for a change.

[Making Plans 936]

Some good points Slim but I don''t think that you really understand the situation.

It''s not about what has happened in the past or how good the manager and players were or might have been

It''s not even about what might happen in the future and how good the manager and players could be.

It''s about NOW.

And NOW, things are desperate, the Manager has lost control and the players are not performing.

Sure Worthy has done a lot of good for the club, sure some of the players have been great and, sure, on paper, we do have a very strong team. However we are not getting results.

A week in football is a long time - you can''t keep harping back to past glories. By the way, we would have still been in the Premiership on the last day of last season even if we''d lost all our games.

There is absolutely no point in "giving the man until the end of the season" - if he can''t change things in 22 games, what makes you think he can turn things round in another 24 games - there is not one shred of evidence to suggest that this might happen

What exactly is a new manager going to do in half a season? - All I can say is that in the vast majority of cases, new managers have a sudden impact and make a difference almost immediately.

I agree it will not be easy to get another manager to take over now that we''re in "crisis", but it''ll be a lot easier now than it will be when we''re in League One (now that would be a real crisis) and someone has got to pick up the mess left by the previous incumbant.

There''s no point in waiting any longer and we can''t afford to wait any longer.

[ZLF 271]

Cheers Slim - thanks for taking the time to post and explain - much appreciated;  my views are attached in red.

OTBC

 

Worthington has done so much for this club in the relatively short time that he’s been here. The first sign that things aren’t going right and everyone takes the easy option of – “Worthy Out”. Short time here - 5 years is a long stay in football manager when many coaches recognise that 3-4 seasons is the optimum time to have a positive impact

Last season in the Premiership, was in the end disappointing, but we were still in it come the last day of the season – How many people truly gave us a chance of being in the position at that time?  I predicted exactly that - and dont forget the superb support the fans gave who at leas turned up that day when the manager and players did not. 

Don’t think I’m just going to mention the past, let’s think about now:

This season Nigel has bought in some talented players and along with those ones we already had, we DO have a very strong team. Let me just mention some of these players –

Robert Green – Everyone thinks he deserves a place in the England Squad

Gary Doherty – Best player of the season so far? Most would say so.

Calum Davenport – Nobody that I know of would like to see him leave.

Andy Hughes – Taken over role of captain and leads the team.

Youssef Safri – Don’t have to say anything about this man.

Paul McVeigh – Played well all season – More than worth his chance.

Dickson Etuhu – Very promising from what I’ve seen so far.

Darren Huckerby – On his day can change a game.

Dean Ashton – Worthy’s best signing?

Leon McKenzie – As with Hucks, on his day can change a game.

Now there is 10, more than capable players there. And please correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe all but two have been signed by Nigel. This is without mentioning Drury, Colin, Louis-Jean, Shackell, Marney (who I believe will still be a very good player, just not for us), Brennan and Thorne, who can all play decent football at this level. Agree the squad has potential and should be doing far better.  Disagree about Capn Clapper and Etuhu though although they are no worse than most champs midfields.   You fail to mention poor planning at entering a season with 4 recognised midfielders when Youssef has predictable absences and Hughes regular suspesions.

We’ve also had three players come through the Youth System in recent years. 3 players in 5 years is nothing to be proud about - and it cancelled out by the systematic ruining of one Dean Ashton. 

Now, I’ve heard many people on this board say that it is Worthy’s job to get these players, playing – and it is. But he can train them, coach them and shout at them, but all of the above players are humans and will do what they want to do. It’s that players that need to start standing up for themselves and making themselves count. We all now that they can do a decent job against any team in this league. Any manager gets his team performing by getting a set of shared values - see our promotion year.  The manager has failed to get a team spirit this season and if the players do not do what the manager asks it is a managerial failure if its not put right through further coaching or discipline.   Every sacked manager is undone by on pitch performances by the players who frequently miraculously improve for a new manager.  Nigels ability to coach and develop players is one of the big questions - which player hasimproved in the last year and how many have left better players than when they arrived. 

Ashton has said in the papers recently that Worthy does give them very strict and precise instructions but the players do what they want to do. A lot of you are saying the reason for this is because they have lost “Faith” and “Trust” in Worthy, but is this the real reason? I personally don’t think that it is.  If its not a break down in discipline or trust/faith what is the reason?

Nearly everybody, including most of, if not all of the players expected us to walk this league and be winning every game 2 or 3 – nil. After a few games of this not happening (we all remember the first three games), players start to panic, play sloppy football. Unfortunately there’s not a lot any one can do about this. It’s a case of mind over matter for the player.  I was under no such illusion and warned frequently as such.  With this squad we should not be 18th and while I expected it to be tough anything out of the top 10 was unacceptable for me.   9th with good performances, committed players and a manager full of ideas week in week out would be OK - we are a million miles away from that.  50% of games defeated this season and over the last 66 games is unacceptable to me.

Next point is the new manager. Who is going to want to come to a club in “Crisis”?

Certainly no manager with any kind of good record.

Just drop everything and come to Norwich for a relegation battle? Don’t think so.  Any manager would like the resources we have - we would be inundated with applications to work with the facilities, players and board who do provide good support to their managers.  

What exactly is a new manager going to do in half a season? I’ve read a lot about these managers with magical powers, amazing, I think! Why is it reasonable to expect Worthy to do a dowie/mcarthy and get use in the play offs but not a new manager?  Worthys position is weaker as he shows no sign of turning it around.  A new manager MAY have a impact but equally may not.

Let’s also stop all this talk of boycotting games…anybody who thinks this will actually do anything is a complete and utter t**t!  Its a point of view - one I cant see through myself but has worked in the past.

This is the time when the teams needs support, loyalty and commitment, not a bunch of Muppets who only sing when we win. How is the form the fans fault?  If singing wins games we would still bein the prem as even at 6-0 at Craven Cottage the players could not have got more - and the same following and packed house following has been there this season - the fans and board have been superb wth their backings. Just because I have these views I have supported the players at the ground and will not accept a muppet comment. 

Now everybody is entitled to there own opinion, which is exactly why I posted this. I know the majority of you are warming up you fingers, ready to reply with some comment about Mrs. Worthington – Well you keep asking for someone to explain why we should give Nigel a chance and I’ve tried to put my view across.  While I clearly disagree with many of your comments I appreciate you taking your time to explain your views. 

Give the man ‘til the end of the season.   There are three reasons why I want a change now.  Firstly Nigel does not look like he can change the fortunes this year (even more unlikely to do the miracle than a new man)  so another 6 months is time wasted.   Secondly a new manager may be able to galvanise the troops for a dowie like turnaround  even if it is unlikely and finally a new manager can use the rest of the season to assess the players and use the close season to build his own team - changing at the end of the season leaves no time for that crucial activity.  

 

OTBC 

[Making Plans 936]

Slim, I have read and considered your "player ratings". Not only are your ratings somewhat generous, but I would like to know on what basis you use the words "everyone", "most" and "nobody" - I hope you''re not including me in your generalisations. FYI, I''ve added my comments below which I believe give a much more accurate reflection of their performances this season. 

Robert Green – Everyone thinks he deserves a place in the England Squad - Everyone ? - have you not seen the plethera of the goals conceeded from crosses this year - Christ, even Dracular would have come out for some of those.

Gary Doherty – Best player of the season so far? Most would say so. - Best player ? - very debatable and even if so, he hasn''t had much to beat. However, IMO "most" would not say so.

Calum Davenport – Nobody that I know of would like to see him leave. - Probably true but irrelevant - he''ll leave.

Andy Hughes – Taken over role of captain and leads the team. - Leads the team ? - yeah, leads them to defeat (when he''s not taken off for playing crap)

Youssef Safri – Don’t have to say anything about this man. - Agreed - there''s nothing to say about anyone who''s either injured. tired or bunking off somewhere. 

Paul McVeigh – Played well all season – More than worth his chance. - Played well ALL season ? - yeah, if the season was 2 games long. How many more chances does he want ?

Dickson Etuhu – Very promising from what I’ve seen so far. - Very promising ? - All I can say is that (a) you must have seen a lot more in Etuhu than me, the Preston Manager and a hell of a lot more Clubs, or (b) you must have set your expectation levels very low.

Darren Huckerby – On his day can change a game. - Agreed - only trouble is it hasn''t been his day for 20 odd matches this season.

Dean Ashton – Worthy’s best signing? - Agreed but irrelevant - on the basis that Worthy has bought uch an awful lot of rubbish, somebody has to be classed as the best. 

Leon McKenzie – As with Hucks, on his day can change a game. Agreed but irrelevant - very difficult to change a game when you don''t play.

 

 

[Slim 0]

[quote user="Making Plans"]

Slim, I have read and considered your "player ratings". Not only are your ratings somewhat generous, but I would like to know on what basis you use the words "everyone", "most" and "nobody" - I hope you''re not including me in your generalisations. FYI, I''ve added my comments below which I believe give a much more accurate reflection of their performances this season. 

Robert Green – Everyone thinks he deserves a place in the England Squad - Everyone ? - have you not seen the plethera of the goals conceeded from crosses this year - Christ, even Dracular would have come out for some of those.

Gary Doherty – Best player of the season so far? Most would say so. - Best player ? - very debatable and even if so, he hasn''t had much to beat. However, IMO "most" would not say so.

.......................

 

[/quote]

 

Fair points and everyone is entitled to an opinion.

But maybe if we started pointing out the good a little, rather than the bad all the time the team would react positivly.

Out of interest who''s your player of the season so far?

As for my basis of: "everyone", "most" and "nobody", this is what i''ve heard from other supporters that I have spoken to.

[Beno27 0]

What a hilarious statement, i dont see how you can back up the statement that worthys a good manager with the fact that he has a fantastic squad, your basically saying that none of the players are underachieving, none are bad, and yet worthington is STILL managing to lose matches, its clear what the problem is here.

Its impossible to say that he should stay because of the fact that he got us these players because for every Dean Ashton theres been a Jason Jarrett. Hes also a magician when it comes to turning Dean Ashtons into Jason Jarretts (ruining them) e.g Gary Holt, Phil Mulryne, Paul McVeigh, even new players like Colin.

Also, for every good player he''s got us, hes got rid of a good player, often needlessly. Matt Jackson- While we were losing at Derby he was captaining the team 5th in the Prem, Francis has been good this season but we didnt get much for him. Svennson- just because worthy wouldnt give him an extra year on his contract. And why does he not use people like jarvis? he''ll just become another Paul Hayes or Dean Sinclair(top scorer last season, scored Vs Man U) with great promise but never given a chance.

[Making Plans 936]

Fair points and everyone is entitled to an opinion. - correct, so here goes again.

But maybe if we started pointing out the good a little, rather than the bad all the time the team would react positivly.- Is there any good, I haven''t seen much of it about ? I''m sure that if there had been even a modicum of good then we wouldn''t in the mire that we currently find ourselves in. I very much doubt if the team can react positively under the current Manager.

Out of interest who''s your player of the season so far? - Haven''t got one, no one''s stood out, no one''s been consistant. Any "player of the season", either half way through, or at the end, has to have been exceptional. Nobody comes close to being exceptional this season. I think it''s more a case of picking the worst, but then IMO to some degree they''ve all been as bad as each other.

As for my basis of: "everyone", "most" and "nobody", this is what i''ve heard from other supporters that I have spoken to. - You must lead a very sheltered life - you should get out more

[Northern Canary 0]

Worthy has done well, yes. but i think his style is more over a few seasons, building a hard working squad with good team spirit. That however is limited and will never make it in the premiership.

Worthy has done well but just as bad in the last two seasons, terrible summer transfers probably messing up both seasons.

Yes he has bought well but he has bought terribly too, eg Chartlon, Hughes, Jonson, Colin, Louis-Jean, Thorne, and all of our summer signings this year. He also lets very important and good players leave eg Mackay and Svennson.

Everyone thinks we did well last season but we did awful. A terrible number of points, look at West Ham - we could have done better.

I think that Worthington is terrible at assembling a new team quickly, as we have seeen in the last two seasons.

O yeah and he has no tactics whatsoever.

[Plastic Scouser 0]

[&]Ok - here we go....

 

Last season in the Premiership, was in the end disappointing, but we were still in it come the last day of the season – How many people truly gave us a chance of being in the position at that time?  Disappointing?   We should have stayed up with ease.   There was no excuse for the appalling away form of last season - especially given our decent home form.

 

This season Nigel has bought in some talented players.   Really?  Who?   Jury is out on Etuhu, but I think we can safely say that the votes are in on Hughes, Jarrett & Louis Jean

 

Darren Huckerby – On his day can change a game.   Funnily enough he only seems to be able to manage this when he''s playing in a motivated, fired-up team who playing for something (Premiership wages, the lure of premiership wages....)

 

Now, I’ve heard many people on this board say that it is Worthy’s job to get these players, playing – and it is. But he can train them, coach them and shout at them, but all of the above players are humans and will do what they want to do. It’s that players that need to start standing up for themselves and making themselves count. We all now that they can do a decent job against any team in this league.   Funny, I thought that the role of manager involved motivating staff.   I''m a manager myself and I know that the only way I''ll get anything from my staff is through gaining their respect.   I know that if they respect me and my values, they''ll follow me through thick and thin.   Quite obviously Worthington doesn''t command the respect of his team or they''d be running themselves ragged for the team every Saturday and we wouldn''t be in the position that we''re in today.

Ashton has said in the papers recently that Worthy does give them very strict and precise instructions but the players do what they want to do. A lot of you are saying the reason for this is because they have lost “Faith” and “Trust” in Worthy, but is this the real reason? I personally don’t think that it is.   Didn''t we end up drawing the Palace game last season because the players didn''t do what they were told by the manager (or at least wasn''t that Worthington''s excuse at the time?).    If they were doing it in the Premiership then the rot set in a long time ago - a decent manager worth his salt would have stamped that behaviour out pretty swiftly!

 

 

Slim - I''m not trying to be derogatory here - I don''t think it does any of us any good throwing stupid comments around...but I do think that some of your obviously thorough thought processes are somewhat flawed...

 

He''s had his time, now is the time for a change before things get any worse...

 

[Syteanric 1]

to add my ''2 pence''

Robert Green – Everyone thinks he deserves a place in the England Squad No.. Sven Groan Errikson doesnt, he thinks Robinson, James and (when fit) Kirkland do. Greeno wont be getting in the squad after a rainy night in cheltenham next year. He looks fed up game by game and is waiting for january. i think Gallaghers a better keeper anyway.

Gary Doherty – Best player of the season so far? Most would say so. has he improved or has Davenport taken the heat off him by being head and shoulders a better player? personally i wouldnt say he was the player of the season so far.

Calum Davenport – Nobody that I know of would like to see him leave. true but he is.... Reading want him... would u rather join them or a team who are getting spanked week in - week out? Davenport is shop windowed here, he is waiting for a move to a better club and once he gets one he wont give a jot about us.. he wont join us even if we bid.

Andy Hughes – Taken over role of captain and leads the team. Leads them round clapping at the end. he''s rubbish! My cousins a reading fan and actually laughed when she heard we''d signed him... she said the royals wouldnt miss him and shes right.

Youssef Safri – Don’t have to say anything about this man. Saffers is top Ntoch.. sadly injury prone which isnt his fault. 1 player who IS vital to the team.

Paul McVeigh – Played well all season – More than worth his chance. 1 good game.. has drunk in the last chance saloon once too many and the transfer list will beckon when the new man comes in

Dickson Etuhu – Very promising from what I’ve seen so far. A loan signing.. shop windowed, got no interest in us or Preston... they dont want him, we might.. but he''s no better than whats already here

Darren Huckerby – On his day can change a game. hasnt had his day since Ipswich away (possibly luton at home) if worthy was a good manager he''d of droped this over paid sulker ages ago!

Dean Ashton – Worthy’s best signing? and also the player Worthy has ruined.. needs a new manager and revitalising to become the player we know he is.

Leon McKenzie – As with Hucks, on his day can change a game but is injured long term.. he cant change anything from in teh stands.. except his seating position.

jas :)

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Gosh these posts are long so I will just say....

the proof of the pudding etc.....

[starman 0]

hey slim,are you worthy in disguise??

just exactly when are these quality signings worthy made gonna start producing then.I never expected us to walk this league but,i didnt expect us to continually under achieve and be 18th.what you dont seem to acknowledge is the fact something has seriously happened between worthy and the players.

I agree the players must carry some blame,but you have to ask whats going on at carrow rd.I dont want to knock worthy unfairly but ultimately,the buck stops with him when it comes to the teams performances and results.He has totally lost control and has made a rash of what i consider to be mediocre players with 2 or 3 exceptions and has blown most of the player budgets on  panic loan signings.

Time for a change mate,no room for sentimentality,by then we will be relegated.

bravo,win or die