Vrancic

[king canary 7,559]

Surprised by those saying Marco had a poor game. He has a habit of running into blind alleys and his decision making isn't always the best but he's very good at finding those pockets of space between defence and midfield and putting the opposition defenders on the back foot. Sometimes we can struggle to move the ball through the levels and he is one of the best at turning and bringing the ball forward. I'd argue McLean is probably also best suited to that role but Stiepermann has more physicality.

[kingsway 94]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

Surprised by those saying Marco had a poor game. He has a habit of running into blind alleys and his decision making isn't always the best but he's very good at finding those pockets of space between defence and midfield and putting the opposition defenders on the back foot. Sometimes we can struggle to move the ball through the levels and he is one of the best at turning and bringing the ball forward. I'd argue McLean is probably also best suited to that role but Stiepermann has more physicality.

Steiperman wasn't at his best last night for certain but the qualities you go over are why hes integral to the team. Certainly has more impact on the game and Norwich Citys success than what "gods gift" Leitner does!

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

8 minutes ago, kingsway said:

Just don't get all this Leitner love in from fans who make out he's something like Martin Peters!!

 

I agree that Leitner in the right position would likely be more effective in the top flight!

Fair enough. It’s not a love in, just an appreciation from me for what he contributed early in the season and the part he played in getting us to the top of the league. He was the heartbeat of the team, always looking for the ball and started the majority of attacks.

However the dilemma now is whether Vrancic is more effective (though different style players) or can they play together? That’s also doing a disservice to McLean who’s played well and made some vital contributions in the latest winning run. Good problems to have and endless debate as to which is the best way to go

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

4 minutes ago, kingsway said:

Steiperman wasn't at his best last night for certain but the qualities you go over are why hes integral to the team. Certainly has more impact on the game and Norwich Citys success than what "gods gift" Leitner does!

Leitners impact is less subtle than any of the other midfielders/striker but equally as important (again talking about the pre-Xmas Leitner)

[king canary 7,559]

1 minute ago, Fiery Zac said:

Fair enough. It’s not a love in, just an appreciation from me for what he contributed early in the season and the part he played in getting us to the top of the league. He was the heartbeat of the team, always looking for the ball and started the majority of attacks.

However the dilemma now is whether Vrancic is more effective (though different style players) or can they play together? That’s also doing a disservice to McLean who’s played well and made some vital contributions in the latest winning run. Good problems to have and endless debate as to which is the best way to go

Vrancic and Leitner are both more effective in deeper positions but if you play them together you lose the steel from Trybull or Tettey which is needed to let them play their game or you lose Marco and his ability to link midfield and attack.

I'm sure it is possible to play them together but I'm not totally sure how.

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Vrancic and Leitner are both more effective in deeper positions but if you play them together you lose the steel from Trybull or Tettey which is needed to let them play their game or you lose Marco and his ability to link midfield and attack.

I'm sure it is possible to play them together but I'm not totally sure how.

Agreed. Vrancic sees the whole picture of the play and can play long balls, chipped passes and through balls better than anyone else we have (imo) whereas Leitner is about being the first option for everyone to pass to (particularly gk), keeping the pace of the game and looking for the best moment to play the killer pass. Vrancic has goals in him and is more likely to be up the pitch which raises his popularity amongst fans. Leitner eases the workload on Trybull/Tettey as they can concentrate on breaking up the play and focus on any potential opposition counter/attack. Lately Trybull has had to do a lot more work as McLean naturally plays higher up the pitch.

[king canary 7,559]

14 minutes ago, Fiery Zac said:

Agreed. Vrancic sees the whole picture of the play and can play long balls, chipped passes and through balls better than anyone else we have (imo) whereas Leitner is about being the first option for everyone to pass to (particularly gk), keeping the pace of the game and looking for the best moment to play the killer pass. Vrancic has goals in him and is more likely to be up the pitch which raises his popularity amongst fans. Leitner eases the workload on Trybull/Tettey as they can concentrate on breaking up the play and focus on any potential opposition counter/attack. Lately Trybull has had to do a lot more work as McLean naturally plays higher up the pitch.

Leitner is a metronome type player he dictates tempo and moves the ball around swiftly but doesn't have the same range as Vrancic. Leitner can control a game, Vrancic is less capable of that but they both need to work in the same space. Vrancic last season struggled when pushed up the pitch as there is less time and less space to utilise the full range of passing he has. 

I guess you could play a 4-3-3 type formation like...

 

                                     Krul

Aarons------Zimbo---------------Godfrey------------Lewis

                               Trybull

                    Leitner-------------Vrancic

Emi                                                          Hernandez

                                Pukki

But you lose the physicality of Marco and you need to ask Emi and Onel to get closer to Pukki so he isn't isolated as Leitner and Vrancic won't get as close to him.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

DF stayed true to his beliefs last night. That is why Leitner had to play out of position. MacLean and Trybull had been doing a job and he didn't want to change them. It didn't work as well as we expected but we certainly did enough to win the game.

But he will be forced i to a change to bring Emi back in so there is no reason why he can't make a couple of changes.

But I am looking forward to Emi and Stirpermann linking up again. And with Aarons bombing on we have the makings. Last night the crossing was dreadful most of the time but it will be different Monday.

[Yellow Fever 3,732]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

DF stayed true to his beliefs last night. That is why Leitner had to play out of position. MacLean and Trybull had been doing a job and he didn't want to change them. It didn't work as well as we expected but we certainly did enough to win the game.

But he will be forced i to a change to bring Emi back in so there is no reason why he can't make a couple of changes.

But I am looking forward to Emi and Stirpermann linking up again. And with Aarons bombing on we have the makings. Last night the crossing was dreadful most of the time but it will be different Monday.

Yes - I sometimes think Farke makes a rod for his own back by refusing to change or even rotate the team even when missing a key player. That's fine if you have a true like for like available nut Emi and Vrancic are the playmakers at present - possibly with Mo in his natural position. 

[Indy_Bones 441]

It was clear last night that Leitner was suffering from lack of recent match time and being played out of his normal position, neither of which are his fault either.

If anything I was more disappointed with Trybull last night (no-one else seems to have mentioned him), who I struggled to even see on the pitch for most of the game (and on those rare occasions I did actually see him, he did very little anyway!), but he's also been a strong part of our recent run, so 1 weaker game is no justification for removal.

Hernandez also seemed to be lacking in confidence and real product last night, but if he had the consistency to play at his best each week, he'd be nowhere near this squad and playing for a top half side in the prem, but I do think that he may need a rest, as does Stiepermann (purely from a perspective that he's run himself into the floor for quite some time now).

Buendia to return on the right, Vrancic starting for either Hernandez or Stiepermann, and I'd like to see what a combination of Leitner and McClean might do in the middle (even if it gives up a little bit of defensive assistance in exchange for tempo and attacking options).

[nutty nigel 7,506]

5 hours ago, king canary said:

Vrancic and Leitner are both more effective in deeper positions but if you play them together you lose the steel from Trybull or Tettey which is needed to let them play their game or you lose Marco and his ability to link midfield and attack.

I'm sure it is possible to play them together but I'm not totally sure how.

Leitners best spell came in tandem with Tettey. They'd probably still be playing together now if it wasn't for injury.

Leitner didn't play the position yesterday. In fact he slowed us down at times through dropping deep. Just goes to show that the idea of all these midfielders being interchangeable is really flawed. We were better balanced with Cantwell at Wigan. Truth is Leitner, Vrancic and McLean are suited to playing deeper. Thank goodness Emi is back on Monday.

 

[king canary 7,559]

12 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Leitners best spell came in tandem with Tettey. They'd probably still be playing together now if it wasn't for injury.

Leitner didn't play the position yesterday. In fact he slowed us down at times through dropping deep. Just goes to show that the idea of all these midfielders being interchangeable is really flawed. We were better balanced with Cantwell at Wigan. Truth is Leitner, Vrancic and McLean are suited to playing deeper. Thank goodness Emi is back on Monday.

 

If I was Farke I'd have swapped Leitner and McLean as I think McLean is more adaptable to playing wide.

I'd also argue Farke got his substitutions wrong. I thought Lewis was a real threat on the left and it was odd to hook him and keep McLean on in a left back position.

[Yellow Fever 3,732]

24 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Leitners best spell came in tandem with Tettey. They'd probably still be playing together now if it wasn't for injury.

Leitner didn't play the position yesterday. In fact he slowed us down at times through dropping deep. Just goes to show that the idea of all these midfielders being interchangeable is really flawed. We were better balanced with Cantwell at Wigan. Truth is Leitner, Vrancic and McLean are suited to playing deeper. Thank goodness Emi is back on Monday.

 

Not sure I entirely agree with that. I'd have put Vrancic in for EMI or McLean wide. Both are more offensive players than Leitner who naturally is more defensive. I'm sure Farke had his reasons but Vrancic in EMI's position is the one we all thought but was never tried !

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

Personally I’d have played Vrancic on the right with scope to roam like Emi and I think that would have given us the extra  attacking creativity we’ve been missing these last 3 games. Personally I think that would have given us at least one win. But it’s impossible to tell, we can only look at the number of goals after Vrancic has come on.

 

personally I’d never put Leitner at RM. it’s no surprise he slowed things down a bit sometimes- that’s his natural game. Played deeper alongside TT is where he really adds to the team. 

[Alfie54 76]

11 hours ago, Fiery Zac said:

You clearly didn’t watch any of the games Leitner played in earlier in the season. If you had you wouldn’t write this nonsense.

Was actually impressed with how much better the corners were to recent games.

Was an awkward performance from Mo last night but i think that was mainly due to being played in the wrong position. Was a weird selection as he’s never played there before for us and is simply not that attacking a player. Assumed McLean would’ve been moved forward and Leitner in his usual deep lying playmaker role.

Thought McLean was decent and will be harsh to drop him but how do we not have Vrancic in the side now? Excels whenever he plays and should be starting on Monday.....

Krul

Aarons  Zimmerman  Godfrey  Lewis

Trybull  Vrancic

Buendia (yay!)  Stiepermann  Hernandez

pukki 

 

Harsh on Leitner as wasn’t in the correct position to influence the game and show what he brings to the team and very harsh on McLean who didn’t do much wrong but Vrancic and obviously Buendia have to start

I think Farke didn’t move McLean so that he can drop Leitner and simply bring EMI back against Stoke

[nutty nigel 7,506]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

If I was Farke I'd have swapped Leitner and McLean as I think McLean is more adaptable to playing wide.

I'd also argue Farke got his substitutions wrong. I thought Lewis was a real threat on the left and it was odd to hook him and keep McLean on in a left back position.

I thought Stiepermann was best of the three but they weren't fluid and there was little interchanging which made it predictable.

Maybe McLean would be more suited to play in one of the three offensive positions. But I've never seen that so it's all a little bit on trust. 

In future we may have to change the system if important parts are missing rather than shoehorning in players out of position.

[Yellow Fever 3,732]

3 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I thought Stiepermann was best of the three but they weren't fluid and there was little interchanging which made it predictable.

Maybe McLean would be more suited to play in one of the three offensive positions. But I've never seen that so it's all a little bit on trust. 

In future we may have to change the system if important parts are missing rather than shoehorning in players out of position.

Yes.