East Rider 538 Posted April 13, 2019 This could be the day that shower are relegated and yet there appears to be not an ounce of fight against the causes of this by their fan base. If the continual decline which has happened down there occurred here, I'm absolutely sure our board would be made aware of our feelings in no uncertain terms. What surprises me most is the apathetic acceptance of it by their support! No wonder saint Marcus the tout, gets away with it. It is truly pathetic. Almost pitiful. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BroadstairsR 2,093 Posted April 13, 2019 Yes, but as I've posted before they seem to have managed to turn promotion to the PL into a negative thing (losing games, being relegated etc.) and relegation to the third tier into a positive thing (winning games, promotion etc.) Total false logic, but entirely to be expected from the supporters of that hopeless, hapless, debt-ridden apology for a football club, and they are welcome to it all. OTBC 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt. Pants 4,088 Posted April 13, 2019 If no-one's prepared to buy Evans out there's not a lot they can do to be fair. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 995 Posted April 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Capt. Pants said: If no-one's prepared to buy Evans out there's not a lot they can do to be fair. I am guessing this has something to do with Evans not wanting to relinquish his grip on the loss making part of his group of companies for tax reasons. The Football league really should be doing something about preventing the financial model being employed at Ippo and other clubs (Coventry spring to mind as a similar example)......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
splendidrush 698 Posted April 13, 2019 Lambert said that they're not normal and a flick through TWTD confirms it. Never have I read such twisted nonsense. Glad to see the back of them. Finally returning to being the football backwater they've always been. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kathy 728 Posted April 13, 2019 They're not bothered because they see them 'capturing' Paul Lambert as some sort of triumph over us. The fact that they are crap and going down matters not a jot because they've put one over on us by pinching one of our most successful managers. Unfortunately for them they don't seem to real the poor old boy can't hack it anymore and has lost his marbles into the bargain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BroadstairsR 2,093 Posted April 13, 2019 Only one person and his dog wanted Paul Lambert back at Carrow Road I should imagine. We outclass that particular individual. They are welcome to each other. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,683 Posted April 13, 2019 It makes you realize how good a manager McCarthy was. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,655 Posted April 13, 2019 The Grim Reaper is already looking at his watch to announce time of death as 4.45pm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BroadstairsR 2,093 Posted April 13, 2019 Lambert's Lament:- "Bury me when when Town diesbeneath a whisky bottlein an Ipswich bar.With luckthe thing will leak." 'Crappy' week-end Paul ...... "brilliant." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dylanisabaddog 4,729 Posted April 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Capt. Pants said: If no-one's prepared to buy Evans out there's not a lot they can do to be fair. They could do to Evans what we did to Chase Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,655 Posted April 13, 2019 Theres a fundamental difference to them going down to league one to when we did....and thats the fact that Evans owns the club, yes they can protest at him...but who on earth would buy that sh!thouse? I remember the day we went down at the Valley and even outside the City Stand the next day many of the protests being aimed at the likes of Munby and Doncaster ...aswell as Delia and Wynn Jones... for a succesion of god awful decisions at the club spanning 2 or 3 years that eventually put us in that position. Thankfully later that week messrs Munby and Doncaster stood down and the remaining board members brought in McNally , who inturn reversed the ridiculous decision to appoint Gunn as manager permenantly and the rest is history Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dylanisabaddog 4,729 Posted April 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said: I am guessing this has something to do with Evans not wanting to relinquish his grip on the loss making part of his group of companies for tax reasons. The Football league really should be doing something about preventing the financial model being employed at Ippo and other clubs (Coventry spring to mind as a similar example)......... I am speaking as someone with 30 years experience in company taxation. Evans and his companies do not gain a financial advantage as a result of Ipswich Town making losses. At best his companies get relief at 20% for the losses which means that a loss of £5m becomes a loss of £4m after tax relief. Evans bought a debt of £30m owed by Ipswich to Aviva. He bought the debt for £7m which meant Aviva lost £23m. The Ipswich shareholders and supporters thought this meant they now only owed £7m when in fact they still owed £30m but to Evans rather than Aviva. It seems that Evans plan was to get promoted and take the £30m out of the Sky money thus making a quick profit of £23m. Unfortunately he chose Roy Keane to put this plan into practice and we all know what happened next. The debt is now £100m, mainly because Evans has been rolling up unpaid interest on the debt but also because wages have exceeded income. He stopped charging interest a couple of years ago which may be the result of FFP or perhaps because HMRC disallowed the losses. Only Evans and HMRC will know the reason. The rules for cross company interest relief and losses are incredibly complex. The moral of the tale is not to allow a gun running ticket tout to buy your football club. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alex Moss 2,165 Posted April 13, 2019 3 hours ago, East Rider said: This could be the day that shower are relegated and yet there appears to be not an ounce of fight against the causes of this by their fan base. If the continual decline which has happened down there occurred here, I'm absolutely sure our board would be made aware of our feelings in no uncertain terms. What surprises me most is the apathetic acceptance of it by their support! No wonder saint Marcus the tout, gets away with it. It is truly pathetic. Almost pitiful. I am not surprised at all. I’m pretty sure their supporters have known they will be relegated for about 6+ months now so today is of no real surprise to them. It’s long been accepted - what more can they say? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BroadstairsR 2,093 Posted April 13, 2019 (edited) @Dylan etc. "Evans and his companies do not gain a financial advantage as a result of Ipswich Town making losses. At best his companies get relief at 20% for the losses which means that a loss of £5m becomes a loss of £4m after tax relief." Exactly, you can in no way profit from a loss making arm of any company. A loss is a loss and can only be mitigated against via the taxation system, but not wiped out. However, try telling this to the anti-Evans brigade among the binners as they seem to think that Evans actually gains financially from his connection with them. He does get some advertising on the shirts etc., but this is small fry and will become even less useful when they get promoted to L.1 because exposure will be more limited. The fact remains that Evans has bought a pup and he clearly regrets it as is demonstrated by his apparent lack of interest in affairs and unwillingness to act to prevent the demise of the club, to say nothing of the run down condition that the stadium is in. I'm guessing that he is anxious to rid himself of the financial millstone he has lumbered himself with, but there is little to actually sell and he would probably have to swallow the debt in any case. If he managed this then he would likely look selling off the training ground site for development in order to cut his losses, if the leasehold agreement permits obviously. Any way you look at it that hapless club is in a perilous state. No wonder the support refuse to face up to the real facts, preferring instead to swallow Lambert's cynically based, positive spin. Already there are signs that Evans cannot reign PL in as the latter has already spoken of a 'new dawn,' given encouraging but vague promises for the future, that actually lack detail, and has even made statements about ticket prices for next season. The latter being none of his concern surely and amply demonstrates the unprofessional way that that club is currently run. Can anybody actually imagine in a million years Daniel Farke concerning himself with the price of season tickets at Carrow Road for the next season? This in a nutshell is the difference between the manner that the two clubs are currently run and the reason why the gap in achievement has become an an irreversible chasm. Watch this space. Edited April 13, 2019 by BroadstairsR Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,655 Posted April 13, 2019 1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said: They could do to Evans what we did to Chase Chase was a minority shareholder with only 34% of the total shareholding whereas Evans owns virtually the lot so a totally different beast to shift. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 995 Posted April 13, 2019 56 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said: I am speaking as someone with 30 years experience in company taxation. Evans and his companies do not gain a financial advantage as a result of Ipswich Town making losses. At best his companies get relief at 20% for the losses which means that a loss of £5m becomes a loss of £4m after tax relief. Evans bought a debt of £30m owed by Ipswich to Aviva. He bought the debt for £7m which meant Aviva lost £23m. The Ipswich shareholders and supporters thought this meant they now only owed £7m when in fact they still owed £30m but to Evans rather than Aviva. It seems that Evans plan was to get promoted and take the £30m out of the Sky money thus making a quick profit of £23m. Unfortunately he chose Roy Keane to put this plan into practice and we all know what happened next. The debt is now £100m, mainly because Evans has been rolling up unpaid interest on the debt but also because wages have exceeded income. He stopped charging interest a couple of years ago which may be the result of FFP or perhaps because HMRC disallowed the losses. Only Evans and HMRC will know the reason. The rules for cross company interest relief and losses are incredibly complex. The moral of the tale is not to allow a gun running ticket tout to buy your football club. Hi Dylan, thanks for that, I am not suggesting that Ippo are getting any advantage, I was suggesting that Evans is using Ippo as a vehicle to offset their large losses against the profitable side of his group of companies. I am given to understand this is what SISU are doing at Coventry. I have to admit I am not at all au fait with company taxation and my understanding is clearly flawed..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
East Rider 538 Posted April 13, 2019 39 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said: Chase was a minority shareholder with only 34% of the total shareholding whereas Evans owns virtually the lot so a totally different beast to shift. Agreed. However, the issues is not just Evans and his ownership. He has largely been anonymous throughout his time there, yet the 'board' who act for him appears to have got off scot free, whilst overseeing one poor decision after another. It beggars belief no one group down there appears to be worried enough to challenge this! Yet when MM style of hoofball drags on too long a few of them are then outraged at the manager. Someone who continually kept them in the chumps (yes they where boring as hell to watch) They as a club have simply slept walked into League 1...….without so much as a whimper...……..apathetically pathetic display. And I strongly suspect, it will continue for some time yet. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CANARYKING 634 Posted April 13, 2019 Goal down already Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dylanisabaddog 4,729 Posted April 13, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said: Hi Dylan, thanks for that, I am not suggesting that Ippo are getting any advantage, I was suggesting that Evans is using Ippo as a vehicle to offset their large losses against the profitable side of his group of companies. I am given to understand this is what SISU are doing at Coventry. I have to admit I am not at all au fait with company taxation and my understanding is clearly flawed..... Company A makes a profit of £10m. Company B makes a loss of £4m. The companies are under common ownership. In total they have made a profit of £6m. Company A would normally pay Corporation Tax at 20% on its profit of £10m giving a tax bill of £2m. Company A claims group losses of £4m from Company B which reduces its taxable profits to £6m. Corporation tax at 20% is £1.2m, a reduction of £800k. Company A has saved £800k in tax but Company B has still lost £4m. The only benefit to losing £4m is a tax saving of £800k. As another poster has said, there cannot be a tax advantage in a company losing money unless of course the loss is contrived in some way. That hasn't happened here, the Ipswich losses in the last year arose from the fact that their wage bill was greater than their income. God knows how but rumour has it that Lambert is keen on signing Naismith in the summer. Any further queries will be answered but there will be a charge of £500 an hour payable to Dylan Ltd which is a loss making company based in Jersey...... Edited April 13, 2019 by dylanisabaddog Error 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
East Rider 538 Posted April 13, 2019 As a relegation, that was as lacklustre as you can get. No fight, no spirit. Down, gone and sent off with a round of applause. How utterly bizarre. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites