The Positive Brexit Thread

[Herman 9,756]

The Mummers and the Parpers?

 

 

[Rock The Boat 1,330]

On 29/08/2021 at 10:16, Fen Canary said:

It’s a side effect of Brexit I’ll grant you that, but ultimately the cause of the shortage is the haulage industry not doing enough to train and retain enough staff, largely because they haven’t had to worry about it thanks to a continuous supply of immigrants happy to work for meagre wages. Hopefully Brexit forces them to change their ways 

Staff shortages in the haulage business is partly explained by low-waged immigrants returning to the EU, but also because there has been no new recruits into the industry because it is impossible to get a new HGV licence as the testing body that issues licences to new HGV drivers closed down during the covid pandemic resulting in the stream of new recruits drying up. Although, they are now back at work, the backlog in testing new HGV drivers will take some time to clear.

[Herman 9,756]

2 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Staff shortages in the haulage business is partly explained by low-waged immigrants returning to the EU, but also because there has been no new recruits into the industry because it is impossible to get a new HGV licence as the testing body that issues licences to new HGV drivers closed down during the covid pandemic resulting in the stream of new recruits drying up. Although, they are now back at work, the backlog in testing new HGV drivers will take some time to clear.

Most of that is correct but I don't know why you always have to put "low paid" in front of immigrant other than simple dog-whistling? They are paid the same rate as everyone else.

 

[A Load of Squit 5,161]

53 minutes ago, Herman said:

Most of that is correct but I don't know why you always have to put "low paid" in front of immigrant other than simple dog-whistling? They are paid the same rate as everyone else.

 

More background information here. It's from June 2019, before the Brexiteers decided it was a problem of testing and issuing licenses.

https://assetalliancegroup.co.uk/2019/06/01/the-hgv-driver-shortage-new-industry-facts-and-perspectives/

Brexit has undoubtedly had an effect on the UK driver shortage. In contrast to the issue of national O-licences, the number of standard international operators has risen. This might suggest that operators are making sure they have the right licensing arrangements for international operation post-Brexit. But although the uncertainty surrounding Brexit has had an impact on the industry, the number of restricted and standard national O-licence holders has been falling steadily since 2012, with 2015/16 the exception.

[horsefly 4,298]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Most of that is correct but I don't know why you always have to put "low paid" in front of immigrant other than simple dog-whistling? They are paid the same rate as everyone else.

 

Spot on Herman! The government have always had the legislative power to ensure that low pay is not a problem in recruiting staff. The idea that we needed the economic catastrophe of brexit to enforce better wages is utterly absurd. It's simply a fact that the government has the power to introduce higher minimum wage levels to ensure that poverty pay is no longer an issue. And before FenCanary responds with his spurious claims about pay differential, we should also remind ourselves that it was Thatcher who abolished wages councils that ensured such differentials were maintained; the government could simply re-introduce them to ensure that workers have a fair say in their pay and conditions. However I wouldn't hold your breath on that one given that the cabinet is filled with the likes of Kwarteng, Raab, Truss, Patel (and some other far-right rabble) who co-authored a book calling for absolutely minimal employment regulation, describing UK workers as lazy and in need of fewer right and, protections; here's a sample of their attitude:

"The British are among the worst idlers in the world. We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor. Whereas Indian children aspire to be doctors or businessmen, the British are more interested in football and pop music."

(Bitannia Unchained)

Anyone waiting for the fantasy brexit utopia of a high wage poverty free UK is going to be in for a long, long wait.

[Yellow Fever 3,772]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

 

"The British are among the worst idlers in the world. We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor. Whereas Indian children aspire to be doctors or businessmen, the British are more interested in football and pop music."

(Bitannia Unchained)

 

This is exactly the gist of my earlier comment about the dysfunction at the heart of Brexit - many indeed most of those that support it want more protections from true global competition - not less as per 'Britannia Unchained' and this Johnson (its not really Tory) government. I've always argued that if we went towards a true US model it could work (minimal benefits) but not this conflicted lets have European social benefits and protections but otherwise 'global' free trade Britain. It's pure poppycock. 

Suggest we immediately raise the retirement age and pensions to 75, and force all those retired Brexiteers back to work. How dare they be idle!

[horsefly 4,298]

Don't laugh too loudly guys:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/wetherspoons-is-running-out-of-beer-so-tim-martin-is-being-roasted-on-twitter/ar-AANYm5u?ocid=msedgntp

[horsefly 4,298]

7 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Staff shortages in the haulage business is partly explained by low-waged immigrants returning to the EU, but also because there has been no new recruits into the industry because it is impossible to get a new HGV licence as the testing body that issues licences to new HGV drivers closed down during the covid pandemic resulting in the stream of new recruits drying up. Although, they are now back at work, the backlog in testing new HGV drivers will take some time to clear.

You clearly haven't read a thing produced by the Road Haulage Association. Even before brexit the RHA said we were about 40-60,000 drivers short of requirement. Brexit has significantly exacerbated this problem, as too has Covid. This issue will not be resolved by clearing a backlog of trainee drivers. The short to medium term solution is obvious, but sady we have a government that would rather see empty food shelves, and vegetables rotting in fields, than lose face and allow EU drivers back into the country.

Edited September 1, 2021 by horsefly

[A Load of Squit 5,161]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

Don't laugh too loudly guys:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/wetherspoons-is-running-out-of-beer-so-tim-martin-is-being-roasted-on-twitter/ar-AANYm5u?ocid=msedgntp

It's OK, problem solved, Dido Harding is going to implement a beer supplies track and trace system. 😀

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

4 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

It's OK, problem solved, Dido Harding is going to implement a beer supplies track and trace system. 😀

Or we are going to get a syringe full of ale 😀

[sonyc 5,511]

So where are Jools, Swindon Canary, Bill .....maybe one or two others? Seem to have disappeared.

They often had a lot to say about Brexit. Has the subject bored them or are they doing other things? I've found it strange. Anyone know?

You get the sense that chickens are really coming home to roost now and lots of comments are emerging in the main media (and on social media) that Brexit was probably not a great idea. There is a veritable winter of discontent coming isn't there? Fruit incapable of being picked because workers were sent back to the EU, fishing  becoming uneconomic, lorry driver shortages, certain goods being in short supply, building materials prices increasing. The argument appears to be whether its Brexit or Covid. Yet, it's clear to many that it's the former that is the biggest influence.

We left without agreeing to a single market, without a customs union, with no "dynamic alignment" but instead we went alone as a third country with a FTA .....yet now we find ourselves trying to negotiate grace periods, extensions, fewer trade barriers and tackling bureaucracy though now, we're a sole voice.  We are no longer part of the club so lose any influence we had.

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by sonyc

[Herman 9,756]

7 hours ago, horsefly said:

Don't laugh too loudly guys:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/wetherspoons-is-running-out-of-beer-so-tim-martin-is-being-roasted-on-twitter/ar-AANYm5u?ocid=msedgntp

The only good thing I could say about Wetherspoons was that it always had a good selection of beers. The fact it runs out of the crappier ones doesn't paint its clientele in a good light imo.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Is Tim rich but Dim trying to get his hair like Gary Oldman in Dracula?

If they shut the one near us, the alkies would have to wait until 11am or go to Tesco for some Frosty Jacks.

Wetherspoons, where you have to wipe your feet when you come out.

[horsefly 4,298]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

Wetherspoons, where you have to wipe your feet when you come out.

Is that because your shoes are still stuck to the carpet?

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

2 hours ago, sonyc said:

So where are Jools, Swindon Canary, Bill .....maybe one or two others? They often had a lot to say about Brexit. Has the subject bored them or are they doing other things?

You get the sense that chickens are really coming home to roost now and lots of comments are emerging in the main media (and on social media) that Brexit was probably not a great idea. There is a veritable winter of discontent coming isn't there? Fruit incapable of being picked because workers were sent back to the EU, fishing  becoming uneconomic, lorry driver shortages, certain goods being in short supply, building materials prices increasing. The argument appears to be whether its Brexit or Covid. Yet, it's clear to many that it's the former that is the biggest influence.

We left without agreeing to a single market, without a customs union, with no "dynamic alignment" but instead we went alone as a third country with a FTA .....yet now we find ourselves trying to negotiate grace periods, extensions, fewer trade barriers and tackling bureaucracy though now, we're a sole voice.  We are no longer part of the club so lose any influence we had.

 

Spot on - of course Covid has had an impact but in the areas you highlight (and in many other Brexit created issues) the main impact has been to muddy the waters and give the Brexit apologists an 'alternative' explanation for problems which were always the consequence of Brexit.

Sadly Covid has left us with some serious long term issues but they are mainly additional to and distinct from all the long term issues which Brexit has created.

[sonyc 5,511]

5 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Sadly Covid has left us with some serious long term issues but they are mainly additional to and distinct from all the long term issues which Brexit has created.

Yep agree.

I could have added farming, Erasmus and financial services which arguably are less Covid related.

Oh...and Northern Ireland to add - definitely Brexit.

Then add in the worsening global reputation and it becomes quite a list😐

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

Is that because your shoes are still stuck to the carpet?

Carpet? Its a living thing😱

[Surfer 1,547]

Brexit .. or co-incidence? Either way Britain at the bottom of the economic heap. 

 

[Surfer 1,547]

And nothing emphasized the overdue return of our SOVEREIGNITY like hosting your nuclear deterrent in another country .... 

 

[A Load of Squit 5,161]

Hopefully I've got my maths right (there's a lot of zeros) but that's less than £350m a week?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58417076

Warning over cuts to NHS services without £10bn extra funding

[Yellow Fever 3,772]

15 hours ago, Surfer said:

And nothing emphasized the overdue return of our SOVEREIGNITY like hosting your nuclear deterrent in another country .... 

 

They may as well be French (EU?) or US subs if they are based overseas. They'll certainly want a veto on independent use!

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

4 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

They may as well be French (EU?) or US subs if they are based overseas. They'll certainly want a veto on independent use!

What is wrong with Plymouth? If we cannot house them here then get rid of them.

[sonyc 5,511]

Don't tell Truss about the cheese. 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/02/brexit-uk-food-drink-exports-eu-disastrous-decline?

 

[Herman 9,756]

That is precisely why we don't hear from Jools, Swindo and other assorted brexiters.

[Van wink 2,994]

Nothing seems to have changed

Five years on from one of the most significant referendum votes in the UK which led it to leave the European Union, the country remains as divided as ever over Brexit, an opinion poll has found.

The survey by Savanta ComRes found that if the referendum was re-run today the result would be a narrow win for Remain – by 51% to 49% – if undecideds are discounted.

That compares to the actual result in June 23 2016 poll of 51.9% for Leave to 48.1% for Remain.

This poll shows a country just as divided as it was during the campaign

Chris Hopkins, Savanta ComRes

 

 

[sonyc 5,511]

41 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Nothing seems to have changed

Five years on from one of the most significant referendum votes in the UK which led it to leave the European Union, the country remains as divided as ever over Brexit, an opinion poll has found.

The survey by Savanta ComRes found that if the referendum was re-run today the result would be a narrow win for Remain – by 51% to 49% – if undecideds are discounted.

That compares to the actual result in June 23 2016 poll of 51.9% for Leave to 48.1% for Remain.

This poll shows a country just as divided as it was during the campaign

Chris Hopkins, Savanta ComRes

 

 

The matter has divided people like nothing else. I'm sure it remains divisive. I have two (not really former yet) 'friends' who were Brexiters who now might vote differently. I was very surprised to hear them actually say they would given their hatred for all things European before the vote. Hatred it was too, no exaggeration. 

The big failure was ensuring that everyone who could have voted should have been mandated to do so. Yet we know that wouldn't have happened in the UK. Even though it was a life changing issue for many, especially for the younger and future populations  (f***ing Cameron).

Virtually 13m people didn't vote (72% turnout). So I guess with polls like the one above it all depends on turnout. The projections of those 12.9m indicate a stronger remain preference. But it's too late and we won't be heading back into Europe in my lifetime I'm sure.

I would argue it's the most depressing thing politically to have happened in my life. By a long, long way. Nothing could be worse such is the strength of my opinion. And this is from someone VW who is as tolerant and accepting as it gets (so I reckon). Every time it comes on the news it fills me with sadness. Existential. Life should be about closer and more collaboration (even with people we dislike) not heading the other way.

I realise that this is a response on the emotional / psychological level and not based on the harder nosed practicalities (those are being posted on this thread regularly)....many would snap at me and say 'grow up' or 'grow a pair' I'm very sure of that!

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by sonyc

[Van wink 2,994]

24 minutes ago, sonyc said:

The matter has divided people like nothing else. I'm sure it remains divisive. I have two (not really former yet) 'friends' who were Brexiters who now might vote differently. I was very surprised to hear them actually say they would given their hatred for all things European before the vote. Hatred it was too, no exaggeration. 

The big failure was ensuring that everyone who could have voted should have been mandated to do so. Yet we know that wouldn't have happened in the UK. Even though it was a life changing issue for many, especially for the younger and future populations  (f***ing Cameron).

Virtually 13m people didn't vote (72% turnout). So I guess with polls like the one above it all depends on turnout. The projections of those 12.9m indicate a stronger remain preference. But it's too late and we won't be heading back into Europe in my lifetime I'm sure.

I would argue it's the most depressing thing politically to have happened in my life. By a long, long way. Nothing could be worse such is the strength of my opinion. And this is from someone VW who is as tolerant and accepting as it gets (so I reckon). Every time it comes on the news it fills me with sadness. Existential. Life should be about closer and more collaboration (even with people we dislike) not heading the other way.

Then, many would snap at me and say 'grow up' or 'grow a pair' I'm very sure of that!

 

 There are those on both sides of the argument who like yourself have extremely strong views, interesting that some time on, according to this poll,  it seems that nothing has happened which is significant enough to shift public opinion one way or the other. 

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Van wink

[Herman 9,756]

Equally amusing and depressing article.

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/09/02/past-imperfect-part-one-astroturfing-history/

[horsefly 4,298]

14 hours ago, sonyc said:

The matter has divided people like nothing else. I'm sure it remains divisive. I have two (not really former yet) 'friends' who were Brexiters who now might vote differently. I was very surprised to hear them actually say they would given their hatred for all things European before the vote. Hatred it was too, no exaggeration. 

The big failure was ensuring that everyone who could have voted should have been mandated to do so. Yet we know that wouldn't have happened in the UK. Even though it was a life changing issue for many, especially for the younger and future populations  (f***ing Cameron).

Virtually 13m people didn't vote (72% turnout). So I guess with polls like the one above it all depends on turnout. The projections of those 12.9m indicate a stronger remain preference. But it's too late and we won't be heading back into Europe in my lifetime I'm sure.

I would argue it's the most depressing thing politically to have happened in my life. By a long, long way. Nothing could be worse such is the strength of my opinion. And this is from someone VW who is as tolerant and accepting as it gets (so I reckon). Every time it comes on the news it fills me with sadness. Existential. Life should be about closer and more collaboration (even with people we dislike) not heading the other way.

I realise that this is a response on the emotional / psychological level and not based on the harder nosed practicalities (those are being posted on this thread regularly)....many would snap at me and say 'grow up' or 'grow a pair' I'm very sure of that!

 

Spot on Sonyc! History will look very unkindly indeed on a regime that enabled a referendum on an issue that they knew was massively divisive, and would inevitably leave at least half of the country bereft. Cameron's pusillaminous acquiesence to the far right ERG will be added to his post premiership corruption when he is assessed as one of the worst PMs in UK history.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

We simply don't know do we.

And that is 75% of why I voted remain. Why would I vote for something that had no way of telling me what my future was?